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Thread: Stifle Vise

  1. #21

    Re: Stifle Vise

    Its a little mana hungry, but Icy Manipulator could help for when they do sneak in threats (and its a poor mans Port and helps with 1 sided winter orb-ness).

    Might be a little too cute but its a classic combo!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.

  2. #22
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Trust me, I've been thinking about including Icy Manipulator...but as you say, too expensive. If I can reasonably keep them off 2 mana I can try Isochron Scepter and something like Boomerang/Gigadrowse/Remand synergies (along with Arcane lab would be excellent.) I would want to do Scepter/Chant at that point, and well, who needs that other bullshit when you win by locking them out of the game with Scepter? A set of Factories would do the trick at that point and Black Vise isn't needed. The allure of Black Vise is how fast it can be early and how a soft lock can make it a reasonable way to win (rather than a hard lock.)

    Also looking at Tangle Wire.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  3. #23

    Re: Stifle Vise

    My tangles just came in the mail yesterday, oddly enough. I don't know they will make the cut but they are a nice to have for a rainy day. Academy ruins is probably going to be a sure thing for mine. Just need to, you know, get it/them.

    If you feel like splashing white, suppression field is mean to fetches among other things. And it has a high mana cost but Frozen Aether is the blue kismet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.

  4. #24
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    The idea is to land a Vise, then lock them under Winter Orb/Tangle Wire so they can't play spells. Let vise do it's thing and win. I really feel that Standstill supports the plan in a huge way, either by giving me extra cards, stopping my opponent from playing spells, or giving the opponent extra cards to kill them with Vise. All-around I think it's the correct approach.

    I was also wondering if it should go big mana, like with Cloudpost. That would let my one land untapping give me some gas. It would support Icy Manipulator and maybe something scarier like Sundering Titan. It's a thought, not sure it's good. The choice comes down to making efficient card choices vs. ramp to get the exact effect I want but higher up on the mana scale.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  5. #25

    Re: Stifle Vise

    I don't think this fits in your deck at all, but I just came across Teferi's Response. If only it was more general it would be a kick ass stifle!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.

  6. #26
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    There are so many cards with exciting potential lying hidden. I mean, Predict used to be a card that was only used as a 1-of in some versions of Doomsday. Now it's a staple in Miracles. I think for this deck, Standstill is the nuts though. Strangle their mana with Orb/Wire/Wasteland/Stifle and make them desperate to crack Standstill.

    I was going to actually try Icy Manipulator...but I think curving Orb into Tangle Wire does the job just fine. They can untap one land in the untap step, then the upkeep trigger of Wire happens. Hell, it makes Wire better for longer. Usually by the time Tangle Wire has only 1 counter it isn't very useful.

    Other cards I might considering using:
    Gigadrowse
    Exhaustion
    Mana Vapors
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  7. #27

    Re: Stifle Vise

    Do you trade online at all? I may have some phyrexian dreadnaughts available.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.

  8. #28
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    PM sent.
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    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  9. #29
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Debating a red splash for this deck, for a couple reasons:

    1) Blood Moon
    2) Lightning Bolt
    3) Pyroblast/REB in sideboard

    So I figured that Blood Moon may be simply better than Winter Orb at stalling my opponents. I don't have acceleration, and maybe I don't need it with Wasteland/Stifle. T3 is just fine. I could also work in some number of Lotus Petal to make it faster as well. The whole idea is to keep them from playing cards so Vise can do it's thing, or shut off removal with counterspells so Dreadnought can attack for 2 turns.

    Theoretical red-splashed list (no Volcanics/Forces, remember, this is in the budget/casual category):

    4x Black Vise
    4x Phyrexian Dreadnought

    4x Lotus Petal
    4x Stifle
    4x Daze
    3x Blood Moon
    4x Standstill
    2x Counterspell
    2x Spell Pierce
    4x Brainstorm
    2x Ponder
    4x Lightning Bolt

    4x Wasteland
    3x Scalding Tarn
    1x Flooded Strand
    1x Steam Vents
    9x Island
    1x Mountain

    Sideboard
    3x Misdirection
    3x Pyroblast
    2x Echoing Truth
    1x Vendilion Clique
    2x Smash to Smithereens
    2x Pyroclasm
    2x Tormod's Crypt


    No Force of Wills...but I think with acceleration like Lotus Petal I can have Counterspell available earlier. I might consider Simian Spirit Guide instead of Petal (instant speed) but I may need blue occasionally. The alternative attack power of SSG is minimal when I'm really trying to get 'em with Dread/Vise.

    For the all-blue version I think I will have to drop in a Mishra's Factory, maybe put in a Tolaria West to tutor Factory/Ruins. I also think playing more than 4x Stifle for Drednought might be smart. Torpor Orb comes to mind. I also really want to squeeze in Trinket Mages, but that's going pretty deep when I am playing BStorm/Ponder and sets of both Vise and Dread.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  10. #30

    Re: Stifle Vise

    IF you go with a white splash tocatli honor guard I think would be an option. Also gives you access to artifact tutors (which blue has a decent amount of anyway) and standard white removal. Tezzeret the seeker can fetch a vise or dreadnought as well, but 5 mana might be a tough one.

    Also, if you go with additional creatures, this just got spoiled, a 2 mana clone effect.


    Although as mentioned all the moon effects/LD from red (and grim lavamancer) could be nice under a standstill/vise.

    Another new one for, I assume, depths/wastelands:


    or this. I don't know about any one else, but I feel like there are a lot of cool toys in the new core set. use the vise to hit them in combat and deal damage on their upkeep! haha.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.

  11. #31
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Interesting Cards for sure. I was thinking that Dismember should be fine for removal and that the bolts/blood moons are probably unnecessary. I like that Winter Orb can lock down my opponent for a few turns and then I can smash face with it for 5 with animator, or with Vise if it becomes obsolete. However, there was already Giant Scissors (Ensoul Artifact) so I don't think I need this artificer. Focus on Vise to drain or Dreadnought for fast beats. My alternative plan has now become a couple copies of Mishra's Factory.

    New list:

    4x Black Vise
    4x Phyrexian Dreadnought
    1x Nimble Obstructionist
    4x Standstill
    4x Stifle
    4x Daze
    4x Ponder
    4x Brainstorm
    2x Spell Pierce
    3x Counterspell
    3x Winter Orb
    3x Dismember
    4x Wasteland
    2x Mishra’s Factory
    3x Scalding Tarn
    1x Flooded Strand
    11x Island

    Sideboard
    1x Vendilion Clique
    4x Misdirection
    2x Dispel
    2x Pact of Negation
    3x Echoing Truth
    3x Tormod’s Crypt

    I really like the idea of Pat of Negation with Stifle, but it's probably too risky. It gives my Stifles more targets if I'm facing a matchup where they aren't good at knocking fecthlands (which is rare.) Death and Taxes still has plenty of targets for stifle (SFM, Flickerwisp, Vial, equips) so the land hate isn't good but the card is still great at messing them up. It's also really good against other non-fetch decks like Depths because it can stifle their combo, both Hexmage and Depths. I can also Stifle Needle triggers, lol. Storm straight up loses to stifle anyways, lol. So maybe Pact of Negation is too cute, and just unnecessary. Maybe some Ratchet Bombs instead, or Pithing Needles.

    EDIT: I'm sorely tempted to play Gitaxian Probe + Pithing Needle to further screw over fetchlands, which allows my Stifles to work with Dreadnought. Wasteland + Stifle+ Needle naming your fetches? Seems quite good, if only in magical Christmasland.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  12. #32
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Hey, did you get the cards?
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  13. #33

    Re: Stifle Vise

    They are out for delivery today, I'll update after I get home from work. My comment in the PM about your mail times was the fact it said my shipment to you delivered around 1pm. mine never gets delivered (into my mail box) until 430 or so.

    Maybe its too slow, but would adding sorcerous spyglass be worth it for pithing needle 5-8?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.

  14. #34
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by ronco View Post
    They are out for delivery today, I'll update after I get home from work. My comment in the PM about your mail times was the fact it said my shipment to you delivered around 1pm. mine never gets delivered (into my mail box) until 430 or so.

    Maybe its too slow, but would adding sorcerous spyglass be worth it for pithing needle 5-8?
    If I wanted to go deep, yes. It's very good because it also sees their hand in one shot. Honestly, it's probably better than Probe + Needle because that takes up 8 slots and Spyglass takes up 4. Good catch, I'll have to nab a set and test.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  15. #35
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    I think I might have to drop the Vise idea and go with Delvers. It's just better on so many levels. It would be great to break vise, but this won't do it.
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  16. #36
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    I've been messing around with some lists, and I think I've arrived at a point where I know what I want the deck to do:

    1) Utilize mana-denial via Stifle/Wasteland
    2) Recur artifacts with Academy Ruins (Spellbombs, Crypt, etc.)
    3) Have a toolbox/tutor engine (Artificer's Intuition)
    4) Utilize Ghirapur Aether Grid (this is the missing piece of the puzzle for me, it allows Vises to do work after they don't trigger)

    So without further ado, here is the list:

    4x Black Vise
    4x Aether Spellbomb
    4x Pyrite Spellbomb
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Engineered Explosives
    1x Expedition Map
    3x Artificer's Intuition
    3x Ghirapur Aether Grid
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Stifle
    1x Trickbind
    3x Shrapnel Blast
    2x Counterspell
    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    3x Scalding Tarn
    2x Flooded Strand
    1x Bloodstained Mire
    1x Steam Vents
    2x Spirebluff Canal
    3x Island
    1x Mountain
    1x Seat of the Synod
    1x Great Furnace
    4x Wasteland
    2x Academy Ruins
    2x Mishra's Factory
    1x Tolaria West

    Sideboard
    1x Tormod's Crypt
    1x Grafdigger's Cage
    2x Dispel
    2x Pyroblast
    3x Pyroclasm
    2x Abrade
    4x Phyrexian Dreadnought



    This is uber janky, and uber budget (for legacy standards.) I ended up cutting Standstill because I want AI to be the engine. Sideboard could have aton of easily splashed things.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

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