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Thread: Stifle Vise

  1. #41
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Yeah, I had Winter Orb in earlier versions, but it had non-synergy with Mishra's Factory. I definitely like the idea of Winter Orb. I think I would want some sort of artifact mana to feed the engine though (because lands won't untap.)

    I also picked up a Crucible of Worlds and a 2nd Jace. There could be something here...
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  2. #42
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Yeah, I had Winter Orb in earlier versions, but it had non-synergy with Mishra's Factory. I definitely like the idea of Winter Orb. I think I would want some sort of artifact mana to feed the engine though (because lands won't untap.)

    I also picked up a Crucible of Worlds and a 2nd Jace. There could be something here...
    Well, if you have Vice, Winter Orb, Crucibles, and Artifact Mana, it makes me wonder if Vedalken Certarch should actually be considered. It can not only tap down opponent's lands to deny mana, it can tap Orb to let you untap as well.
    Last edited by H; 12-03-2018 at 11:31 AM.
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  3. #43

    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, if you have Vice, Winter Orb, Crucibles, and Artifact Mana, it makes me wonder if Vedalken Certarch should actually be considered. It can not only tap down opponent's lands to deny mana, it can tap Orb to let you untap as well.Vedalken CertarchVedalken CertarchVedalken Certarch
    You can tap Winter Orb with Aether Grid! Then you get to untap!

  4. #44
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    You can tap Winter Orb with Aether Grid! Then you get to untap!
    However, so does my opponent, right? I like that it can untap Orb, but then I'm breaking my own lock.

    I'm really thinking of something like Winter Orb + Tangle Wire, maybe artifact mana like Mind Stone. The 1-drops are to cover turns 1-2 so I can land a standstill. Even Aether Spellbomb is decent at bouncing their first threat EOT, then landing a Standstill.

    I'm thinking of building around this core:

    Black Vise
    Winter Orb
    Tangle Wire
    Standstill
    Pyrite Spellbomb
    Ghirapur Aether Grid
    Academy Ruins
    Wasteland
    Mishra's Factory

    If I quad-laser it the spells that's 24 slots (will probably only play 2 Ruins.) I think I'll want a minimum 23-24 lands (because of Wasteland and some number of Mishra's Factory.) For discussion's sake that's 48 slots, leaving 12 open.

    I already know I don't want Chalice because the point of the deck is Vise. I'm not sure at this point whether to play some reactive spells like counterspells and removal or to just go all-in on a prison theme and start jamming more card draw (Thirst for Knowledge, Ponder, etc.) to add to Brainstorm/Standstill. I'm also very conscious of the fact that I will probably need a set of Force of Will to protect the lock pieces and answer things that get in under the lock (like Reanimator, Storm, and other fast decks.)
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  5. #45

    Re: Stifle Djinn

    You tap WO at opponents endstep. With a tapped WO you are allowed to untap your lands and the WO - making it tax your opponent in his untap phase.
    Tappning it in your own upkeep (i.e with tangor wire) is ill advised. Then it will be tapped on your opponents untap phase and be turned off.
    The key here is tapping it after opponents untap phase, essentially.

  6. #46
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    Re: Stifle Djinn

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    You tap WO at opponents endstep. With a tapped WO you are allowed to untap your lands and the WO - making it tax your opponent in his untap phase.
    Tappning it in your own upkeep (i.e with tangor wire) is ill advised. Then it will be tapped on your opponents untap phase and be turned off.
    The key here is tapping it after opponents untap phase, essentially.
    Gotcha, that seems pretty decent to me. At this point do I dig deeper and play Ports? I don't have them, but I can get them without too much trouble.
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  7. #47

    Re: Stifle Vise

    I put together the list I posted above and have been goldfishing it. I have since pulled the Ports and the Vault Skirges. I have added two Darksteel Citadel (to make sure I hit metalcraft) and I have added 3 Aether Spellbombs. I pulled the snapcasters to put in something that ca do more damage, and tried playing with the Thing In Ice for a bit, but it was too slow, so I slipped in some True Name Nemesis. Added a Winter orb which can be great, but finding the right number of them will take testing. Four is too many. One to two seem ideal.

    Certarch can actually be really cool, but is weak to removal. I considered spellskite to protect it.

    Edit: forgot to mention that Standstill is very cool here. If you have a vise (or two, or three!) and they have four cards in hand, you can pull moves like casting a spell into your own standstill to hit them for lethal.

  8. #48
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by GrimoirePath View Post
    Edit: forgot to mention that Standstill is very cool here. If you have a vise (or two, or three!) and they have four cards in hand, you can pull moves like casting a spell into your own standstill to hit them for lethal.
    Now you're talking!!!
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  9. #49

    Re: Stifle Vise

    If you have Winter Orb and Black Vise, +4 Mox Opal and maybe +2 Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond. Easy mana to cheat around Winter Orb.


    This looks like a good start:


    4 Mox Opal
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Vedalken Cetarch
    4 Black Vise
    4 Winter Orb
    4 Standstill
    4 Tangle Wire
    4 Trinket Mage
    3 Ghirapur Aether Grid

    2 Academy Ruins
    4 Wasteland
    3 Seat of the Synod
    1 Great Furnace
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Island

  10. #50
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you have Winter Orb and Black Vise, +4 Mox Opal and maybe +2 Chrome Mox or Mox Diamond. Easy mana to cheat around Winter Orb.


    This looks like a good start:


    4 Mox Opal
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Vedalken Cetarch
    4 Black Vise
    4 Winter Orb
    4 Standstill
    4 Tangle Wire
    4 Trinket Mage
    3 Ghirapur Aether Grid

    2 Academy Ruins
    4 Wasteland
    3 Seat of the Synod
    1 Great Furnace
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Polluted Delta
    2 Volcanic Island
    2 Island
    Cool list! I'll plug it into Workstation and try it out. I'm not sold on the Trinket Mages but I'll try it as-is and get some feedback. I have a gauntlet of Sneak/Show, Grixis Delver, D&T, Stoneblade, Burn, and Miracles loaded all the time to test against.

    Another card I'm looking at is Runeflare Trap as additional ways to 'combo' with Black Vise/Standstill. I'm essentially trying to put together a prison-esque version of Owling Mine.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  11. #51

    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Cool list! I'll plug it into Workstation and try it out. I'm not sold on the Trinket Mages but I'll try it as-is and get some feedback. I have a gauntlet of Sneak/Show, Grixis Delver, D&T, Stoneblade, Burn, and Miracles loaded all the time to test against.
    Hope you didn't plug it in yet. It's not 60 cards. I just took the shell you started with and added a few cards, but there are still more slots.

    Trinket Mage is to get Vise. I can't imagine how bad this deck is if you don't have Vise in the opener. It's really slow (turn 4 Vise?), but I couldn't think of another way to dig for Vise if you don't open with one. Trinket also finds Vise #2 or gets Mox Opal, artifact lands, and possible singleton utility like Aether Spellbomb, Pyrite Spellbomb, Relic of Progenitus, Pithing Needle, Engineered Explosives, Meekstone.

    Actually the deck may want some MD Meekstone because that card does a lot of work with Tangle Wire and Winter Orb (they'll be forced to tap a creature on upkeep, due to lack of untapped lands, and it never untaps again). Shuts down flipped Delver, Goyf, TKS, Angler, TNN, and so many other fat threats. Propaganda SB may also be strong against aggro.

  12. #52

    Re: Stifle Vise

    It might make sense to pack two The Rack. Black Viseís power is in the opener. As the game progresses, certain decks (like lands) can easily drop their entire hands. The Rack would hit them on that side. Trinket mage could find it, and should probably be a four of. But then again, I feel like an Umezawas Jitte one of would be really powerful in certain matchups (infect, for instance) and Fabricate could fetch it where Trinket mages couldnt. Fabricate can get any artifact you want, but you dont get the 2/2 body.

    Fabricate as a four of with one The Rack, one Meekstone, one Jitte, and one Winter Orb might help get whatever you need. I like TNN as the beater in the deck, which meekstone would hinder, unless you use Certarch to tap the meekstone (as it can do the winter orb) so you can untap. Certarch and meekstone also have synergy as you can tap down your OPís 3 power creatures.

    The 3cmc of Fabricate is a bit steep, but with Mox Opal this should be pretty reliably a turn two play.

  13. #53

    Re: Stifle Vise

    Hmm... due to the number of 3 cmc plays and colorless artifacts, maybe some Sol Lands are in order?

    No Jittes here because there's nothing to equip. Equipping Mishra's Factory is too mana hungry for a deck with Tangle Wire + Winter Orb.



    //Lands: 20
    1 City of Traitors
    2 Ancient Tomb
    2 Academy Ruins
    4 Wasteland
    4 Seat of the Synod
    7 Island

    //Artifacts: 19
    4 Mox Opal
    4 Black Vise
    4 Winter Orb
    4 Tangle Wire
    1 Meekstone
    1 Aether Spellbomb
    1 The Rack

    //Creatures: 4
    4 Vedalken Certarch

    //Spells: 17
    4 Force of Will
    4 Preordain
    4 Standstill
    4 Fabricate
    1 Thoughtcast

    //Sideboard: 15
    3 Back to Basics
    2 Propaganda
    2 Echoing Truth
    2 Arcane Denial
    2 Trinisphere
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    1 Spellskite

  14. #54
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Sol Lands are definitely on my mind, probably a set of Ancient Tomb. At the very least doubling up on t1 Vise seems good.

    Regarding t4 Vise, it would have to 'combo' with Standstill at that point. I would have to chain vises and Standstills together to combo kill. Just using dead vises to turn on Ghirapur Aether Grid is part of plan B anyways. Grid allows for some pretty good tap-out turns with Tangle Wire because I can deal 2-3 damage and clear creatures or go to the face in response to the upkeep triggers. Earlier versions used 3-4 Shrapnel Blast to keep them relevant, which makes for a fast clock and decent removal (kills Angler.)
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  15. #55

    Re: Stifle Vise

    The list Im tinkering with has a playset of True Name Nemesis, and that is what I equip with the Jitte. I actually am thinking of lowering the aether spellbombs and increasing the number of pithing needles. I am also toying with the idea of putting in a set of aether vials. Vial on three gets you TNN and Trinket Mage. Vial increases artifact count for metal craft too.

    Basically, relying in Vise to kill is a pretty bad. It can be great at hitting for upwards of ten life early in the game, but I find I need help with the finisher. Thats why I have the TNNís. Maybe Tezzeret the Seeker? But I am partial to Jace for his ability to not only close again, but to fix your draws and bounce their threats. Either way, TNN and Meekstone definitely nonbo unless Certarch is in play, so i see how that could be questionable.

    Edit:

    Current list is this, as i play with tombs and vials.


    4 vise
    4 mox opal
    4 Aether vial
    4 force
    2 winter orb
    1 jitte
    3 pithing needle
    4 brainstorm
    3 True Name Nemesis
    4 Stifle
    2 JTMS
    3 Trinket Mage
    2 Aether Spellbomb

    4 Ancient tomb
    4 seat of synod
    4 wasteland
    2 flooded strand
    2 polluted delta
    4 island

  16. #56

    Re: Stifle Vise

    So my last post was a mess. Sorry. I actually just played around with this a lot, and finally found something i liked.

    Went back to the core of Vise, Stifle, Winter Orb, and Certarch. What I am realy liking is a playset of sphere of resistance. So i got rid of the TNNs and Jitte and threw in 2 mishras factory. I landed at this, and its playing well:

    Spell

    4 Black Vise
    4 FoW
    4 Mox Opal
    4 brainstorm
    4 sphere of resistance
    3 Aether Spellbomb
    3 ponder
    2 winter orb
    2 JTMS
    2 stifle
    2 standstill
    1 meekstone

    Land

    4 seat of the synod
    4 ancient tomb
    4 wasteland
    2 flooded strand
    2 polluted delta
    2 island
    1 darksteel citadel

  17. #57
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by GrimoirePath View Post
    So my last post was a mess. Sorry. I actually just played around with this a lot, and finally found something i liked.

    Went back to the core of Vise, Stifle, Winter Orb, and Certarch. What I am realy liking is a playset of sphere of resistance. So i got rid of the TNNs and Jitte and threw in 2 mishras factory. I landed at this, and its playing well:

    Spell

    4 Black Vise
    4 FoW
    4 Mox Opal
    4 brainstorm
    4 sphere of resistance
    3 Aether Spellbomb
    3 ponder
    2 winter orb
    2 JTMS
    2 stifle
    2 standstill
    1 meekstone

    Land

    4 seat of the synod
    4 ancient tomb
    4 wasteland
    2 flooded strand
    2 polluted delta
    2 island
    1 darksteel citadel
    I'm thinking lodestone golem.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
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  18. #58
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    Added Ancient Tombs and Lodestone Golems. Golem is a lock piece but also a threat, so I like it quite a bit. It's missing Brainstorms, but I don't have a ton of shuffle effects, not once the artifact lands got added which are necessary. The artifact lands feed Intuition and Grid.


    4x Vedalken Certarch
    4x Lodestone Golem
    3x Winter Orb
    4x Tangle Wire
    4x Standstill
    3x Artificer's Intuition
    4x Pyrite Spellbomb
    1x Aether Spellbomb
    1x Engineered Explosives
    3x Ghirapur Aether Grid
    4x Stifle
    2x Force of Will
    2x Spell Pierce

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x Wasteland
    2x Academy Ruins
    3x Scalding Tarn
    2x Steam Vents
    1x Island
    4x Seat of the Synod
    1x Great Furnace
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  19. #59

    Re: Stifle Vise

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Added Ancient Tombs and Lodestone Golems. Golem is a lock piece but also a threat, so I like it quite a bit. It's missing Brainstorms, but I don't have a ton of shuffle effects, not once the artifact lands got added which are necessary. The artifact lands feed Intuition and Grid.


    4x Vedalken Certarch
    4x Lodestone Golem
    3x Winter Orb
    4x Tangle Wire
    4x Standstill
    3x Artificer's Intuition
    4x Pyrite Spellbomb
    1x Aether Spellbomb
    1x Engineered Explosives
    3x Ghirapur Aether Grid
    4x Stifle
    2x Force of Will
    2x Spell Pierce

    4x Ancient Tomb
    4x Wasteland
    2x Academy Ruins
    3x Scalding Tarn
    2x Steam Vents
    1x Island
    4x Seat of the Synod
    1x Great Furnace
    Ditching the Vises?!?

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  20. #60
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    Re: Stifle Vise

    That was 100% a mistake, lol. I forgot! Probably have to cut the counterspells at this point to get the vises back in.
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