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Thread: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

  1. #141
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance



    Cheaper than Mangara and a better beater, but also way more limited in what it does, not to mention the lack of synergy with Karakas.

    https://twitter.com/Griselpuff/statu...04946149818369

    I really like this tweet - both the nickname "Ass Trophy" and that this card is going to cause alot of reevaluation.

    That said, I don't get the flavor of this card. Apparently, some Golgari assassin killed some Azorius bigwig - so far, so good. Killing creatures and Planeswalkers makes sense, given the name. Artifacts can be destroyed, so that gets a pass as well.

    But what about intangible objects like enchantments? How do you "kill" a Blood Moon? Same goes for the lands - what are the thoughts of the assassin?

    "Hell yeah, I'm going to murder the shit outta that mountain!"

  2. #142

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post

    Same goes for the lands - what are the thoughts of the assassin?
    It can't kill lands!? (agree on the enchantments though)

  3. #143
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    It can't kill lands!? (agree on the enchantments though)
    Way to shorten my post to alter the context. I've commented with one line on Bounty Hunter, the rest starting with Bob Huang's tweet is about Ass Trophy.

  4. #144

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Way to shorten my post to alter the context. I've commented with one line on Bounty Hunter, the rest starting with Bob Huang's tweet is about Ass Trophy.
    Hups, should actually click the link next time.

    I think the impact on legacy is exagerated, its just another good removal.

  5. #145
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    The card is good and will see play, but Bob is definitely overreacting.

    Giving away free basics is card disadvantage. There's a reason Path to Exile doesn't see that much play in Legacy. Granted, being able to destroy any permanent at instant speed for two mana is very good, but the drawback is not irrelevant. The basic also comes into play untapped, so there's also a potential loss in tempo in addition to the card disadvantage.

    It's also counterable, so it's not like this replaces Abrupt Decay. It's a great card, and will certainly have a couple copies mixed into the 75 of the various BGx stews, but it's not as game changing now as Abrupt Decay was when it was first spoiled.
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  6. #146

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    ...
    Cheaper than Mangara and a better beater, but also way more limited in what it does, not to mention the lack of synergy with Karakas.
    ...
    Killing creatures and Planeswalkers makes sense, given the name. Artifacts can be destroyed, so that gets a pass as well.

    But what about intangible objects like enchantments? How do you "kill" a Blood Moon? Same goes for the lands - what are the thoughts of the assassin?
    ...
    I don't think it will see a lot of play.

    The legendary enchantments are the flip land cycle (legion's landing), the oath cycle (oath of nissa), the shrine cycle (honden of whatever), gods stuff (indestructible or artifacts), a cycle of 'kamigawa flip' creatures (erayo), and genju of the realm.

    Some of that stuff does make sense as destructible.

  7. #147
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    guys Barook was making two distinct points.
    1) new Mangara card.
    2) implied Assassin's Trophy is a tangible object turned to stone by a Gorgon gaze, which carries an odd flavor when you target a Swamp or something.

    As far as Bounty Agent, I see the D&T thread lighting up about it. My question is what targets do they have in mind? Any creature is better served by Karakas, so what Legendary Artifacts or Enchantments are so bothersome? Beyond Jitte I can't think of anything.
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  8. #148

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    my god, that removal looks like nonsense... I would have printed in olors rather than this but hey...
    I wonder if now BUG will be surpassing Grixis having such a powerful card as catch all is quite the thing...

  9. #149

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by NegatorITA View Post
    my god, that removal looks like nonsense... I would have printed in olors rather than this but hey...
    I wonder if now BUG will be surpassing Grixis having such a powerful card as catch all is quite the thing...
    This is the potential cards you're trading off between Grixis and BUG:

    Shardless/Goyf/Leovold/Ass Trophy/AD/Library + Sideboard Choke/Carpet v. Bolt/K-Command/Peezy/Lavamancer + Sideboard REB/Pyro

    At a glance green splash will be better as a mid-range strategy and red splash will be better in a more aggressive strategy. Hopefully in the long-run this will make RUG, BUG, and Grixis all viable in both Snapcaster and Delver variations.

    The underlying problem with green is that all of the best creatures are blue and black. Strange environment.

  10. #150

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    I agree with Hanni that this card is somewhat overhyped right now.

    Relative to Abrupt Decay, what does this card profitably trade with? JTMS is the big one, though they will get an activation out of him first. It can destroy Sneak Attack, but they can activate it in response. It can hit some but not all Reanimator targets, and while targeting a Griselbrand with this is definitely better than Swordsing one, it's still not great. It can hit a Batterskull if they don't have up. It can hit Palace Jailer and annoying utility lands like Karakas and Port out of DnT.

    The trade off is that it can be countered, which is a pretty big drawback if you're trying to kill Sneak Attacks or Jaces with it. If they JTMS and 0 you have to imagine they have a counter.

    I don't think the card is bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it breaks into the format in a big way. It seems like a reasonable sideboard swap for AD in some matchups, or as a 2/1 split with AD.

    EDIT: Also, based on cards and art spoiled and Maro's article today, it seems like half the guilds are Bolas-aligned and half aren't, and the half that are have planeswalkers in charge. Izzet (Ral Zarek) and Golgari (Vraska) seem to be it in this set (holy shit, are the Dimir the good guys? Please say they're the good guys) and Azorius, Orzhov, and an unknown guild are it in the second set based on Ass Trophy appearing to show Isperia's death and Kaya, Ghost Assassin being spoiled in the art for the novel. Also in that art is an unknown wizard who appears to be using Azorius-style magic.

    I would love for the final Bolas guild to be Gruul just because it would be hilarious for the wild savages to be Bolas's puppets, but it's probably going to be something boring like Simic.

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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBleiweiss View Post
    Say hello to your new format staple
    Poor formatting, requires intervening "if" clause. Target their thing, steal it, kill it, ramp self.... R&D needs to think things like this through.

    If they can't get that much right, this should just read "kill target perm, controller searches basic."

  12. #152
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    But what about intangible objects like enchantments? How do you "kill" a Blood Moon? Same goes for the lands - what are the thoughts of the assassin?
    Also, killing off all life on an island takes more cards than destroying the entire island itself

    I'm thinking the assassin in question underwent some horrible childhood trauma and because of that hates literally everything

    You'll be seeing between 2 to 4 copies in pretty much every Nic Fit list, by the way. 2 to 4 in every 60, maybe even 3 to 4 in every 75
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  13. #153

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Poor formatting, requires intervening "if" clause. Target their thing, steal it, kill it, ramp self.... R&D needs to think things like this through.

    If they can't get that much right, this should just read "kill target perm, controller searches basic."
    Lol, that's total nonsene. So instead of controlling their thing you would loose this card and their thing to ramp yourself one basic? Wow you really broke this, go ahead with your super strategy!

    But even then, the Trophy would be countered because it's an illeagal target when you control it! formatting is totally fine! You are really the epitome of internet people... Shouting out, how stupid the entire R&D is and you are so much smarter then all of them... made a big fool of yourself!

    Quote Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies View Post
    I agree with Hanni that this card is somewhat overhyped right now.

    Relative to Abrupt Decay, what does this card profitably trade with? JTMS is the big one, though they will get an activation out of him first. It can destroy Sneak Attack, but they can activate it in response. It can hit some but not all Reanimator targets, and while targeting a Griselbrand with this is definitely better than Swordsing one, it's still not great. It can hit a Batterskull if they don't have up. It can hit Palace Jailer and annoying utility lands like Karakas and Port out of DnT.

    The trade off is that it can be countered, which is a pretty big drawback if you're trying to kill Sneak Attacks or Jaces with it. If they JTMS and 0 you have to imagine they have a counter.

    I don't think the card is bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I don't think it breaks into the format in a big way. It seems like a reasonable sideboard swap for AD in some matchups, or as a 2/1 split with AD.

    EDIT: Also, based on cards and art spoiled and Maro's article today, it seems like half the guilds are Bolas-aligned and half aren't, and the half that are have planeswalkers in charge. Izzet (Ral Zarek) and Golgari (Vraska) seem to be it in this set (holy shit, are the Dimir the good guys? Please say they're the good guys) and Azorius, Orzhov, and an unknown guild are it in the second set based on Ass Trophy appearing to show Isperia's death and Kaya, Ghost Assassin being spoiled in the art for the novel. Also in that art is an unknown wizard who appears to be using Azorius-style magic.

    I would love for the final Bolas guild to be Gruul just because it would be hilarious for the wild savages to be Bolas's puppets, but it's probably going to be something boring like Simic.
    Your forgot one really big card this handles: Gurmag Angler which is kind of the 2nd best aggressive creature right now and is traditionally tough to handle for BUG since the best answer in strix can be handled by counters and removal and all spellbased removal is either situational like Edicts, Go for the Throat or has a significant drawback like Dismember so you cannot play alot of it. Hitting Jace is really big even if they get to brainstrom since it is still alot better than playing something clunky like maelstrom pulse while still hitting non-blue Walkers in contrast to Blasteffects and it's an instant so you don't wast half your turn for it.

    Hitting Lands is really big as well, because for a non- or two-wasteland-Deck Karakas+Thalia or Stage+DD is really though to handle as well.

    The StoP Path comparision is not really fitting, since StoP can hit everything path hits, this hits more than any other bug-removal spell so it's an upgrade unlike path. Also against Delver-style decks this isn't even Carddisadvantage cause they don't have basics.
    Last edited by MorphBerlin; 09-11-2018 at 06:05 AM.

  14. #154

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Poor formatting, requires intervening "if" clause. Target their thing, steal it, kill it, ramp self.... R&D needs to think things like this through.

    If they can't get that much right, this should just read "kill target perm, controller searches basic."
    If you target an opponent's permanent with Trophy and then gain control of that permanent in response, when your Trophy tries to resolve the permanent no longer satisfies "Target permanent an opponent controls" so the trophy is countered for all its targets being illegal.

    It's no different to making your Wild Mongrel black to counter your opponent's Terror

    "If they can't make this card not function in this weird corner case that I don't even understand properly then they should have printed it with entirely different functionality" yeah ok thanks for your input

  15. #155
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Oh well, haters gonna hate, hate hate.

    Just shake it off, shake it off
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  16. #156

    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Assassin's Trophy is getting completely overrated right now and will almost certainly see next to zero play in Legacy. There is a reason that Path to Exile doesnt get played either if only because ramping your opponent in a format full of JCTMs and other planeswalkers is simply bad or if just for the fact that counterable CC2 removal sucks in legacy (Daze, Pierce, Flusterstorm, Thalia). In fact most creatures in legacy today aren't even played because of being creatures in the first place but because of their inbuilt effects (Snapcaster, Strix, Shardless, Leo etc.) and giving them even more value of out those is the worst idea ever.

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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Whatever floats your boat man
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  18. #158
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    Assassin's Trophy is getting completely overrated right now and will almost certainly see next to zero play in Legacy. There is a reason that Path to Exile doesnt get played either if only because ramping your opponent in a format full of JCTMs and other planeswalkers is simply bad or if just for the fact that counterable CC2 removal sucks in legacy (Daze, Pierce, Flusterstorm, Thalia). In fact most creatures in legacy today aren't even played because of being creatures in the first place but because of their inbuilt effects (Snapcaster, Strix, Shardless, Leo etc.) and giving them even more value of out those is the worst idea ever.
    it's an easy fit for nic fit as was mentioned since veteran explorer will already have oppo have their lands in play. could also be played in lands where it turns ghost quarter into a strip mine very fast. (would def be a sb card if there were room).

    i can see it used as a card in GB depths as well as a way to protect against karakas/wasteland.

    it's not the most incredible card, but i'm happy to see any cards introduced to the legacy cardpool. especially if they aren't blue!
    -rob

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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    If you target an opponent's permanent with Trophy and then gain control of that permanent in response, when your Trophy tries to resolve the permanent no longer satisfies "Target permanent an opponent controls" so the trophy is countered for all its targets being illegal.

    It's no different to making your Wild Mongrel black to counter your opponent's Terror
    Ah right, I was thinking all that mattered was that they controlled it when you declared target; forgot that it fizzles itself. Card seems fine then.

  20. #160
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    Re: [GRN] Guilds of Ravnica & [RNA] Ravnica Allegiance

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    it's not the most incredible card, but i'm happy to see any cards introduced to the legacy cardpool. especially if they aren't blue!
    Careful, mate. The last time someone said that about BG cards, those were Abrupt Decay and DRS, which both ended up cantrip shell staples.

    In general, Trophy isn't a Legacy card as it creates carddisadvantage, is counterable and has barely more relevant targets than Decay. It's an interresting card for Modern though.
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