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Thread: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

  1. #61
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    Do you happen to be tracking this information by date so that we can see week to week changes? Or are you only tracking total points? I've been following the rankings as posts are made and find it interesting how decks are rising and falling.
    Alas, I haven't been tabulating the data in a way that allows me to break it down by date or anything. I thought about it, to get a visual of the meta flow, even if it was just keeping records of updates, but some of the updates include late-coming data, so fluctuations are partially influenced by weeks-old events. I do have the tournaments sorted by date in the OP, though, so analysis could be done after inputting that.

    And a mini update:

    July 15, MLL #11, 37 players: 1.) Reanimator Depths 2.) U/R Delver 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Dragon Stompy 5.) RUG Delver 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) Dragon Stompy

  2. #62
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

    August 4, Legacy Preservation Series @ Mox Boarding House Seattle, 43 players: 1.) Tin Fins Depths 2.) UWR Stoneblade 3.) U/G 12-Post 4.) Big Eldrazi 5.) Burn 6.) Lands 7.) Lands 8.) RUG Delver

  3. #63

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Alas, I haven't been tabulating the data in a way that allows me to break it down by date or anything. I thought about it, to get a visual of the meta flow, even if it was just keeping records of updates, but some of the updates include late-coming data, so fluctuations are partially influenced by weeks-old events. I do have the tournaments sorted by date in the OP, though, so analysis could be done after inputting that.

    And a mini update:

    July 15, MLL #11, 37 players: 1.) Reanimator Depths 2.) U/R Delver 3.) RUG Delver 4.) Dragon Stompy 5.) RUG Delver 6.) Death & Taxes 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) Dragon Stompy
    I might build and make available a database for that. Deck/date would be easy, but I'm debating if it would be worth including decklists which takes a little more time to add in.
    Last edited by Brael; 08-05-2018 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #64
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

    August 5, MTGO Challenge, 100 players: 1.) RUG Delver 2.) Merfolk 3.) Lands 4.) Reanimator 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Miracles 7.) Grixis Control 8.) Sneak & Show 9.) Miracles 10.) Grixis Delver 11.) B/R Reanimator 12.) Infect 13.) Faeries 14.) TES 15.) Death's Shadow 16.) Big Eldrazi

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    I might build and make available a database for that. Deck/date would be easy, but I'm debating if it would be worth including decklists which takes a little more time to add in.
    Awesome

  5. #65
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Four tournaments added, OP rankings updated:

    August 4, ネームドトーナメント トミザワ・レガシー杯, 53 players: 1.) Dark Depths 2.) TES 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Grixis Control 5.) Grixis Control 6.) Tin Fins 7.) Goblins 8.) Tezzeret Control

    August 5, 晴れる屋レガシー杯, 46 players: 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Miracles 3.) Lands 4.) TES 5.) Miracles 6.) B/R Reanimator 7.) Miracles 8.) Miracles

    August 5, The Last Sun 2018予選 - ファミコンランド小松店, 33 players: 1.) Mono G 12-Post 2.) U/W Stoneblade 3.) Pox 4.) Grixis Control

    August 5, Pro Series @ Fire & Dice (Winnetka, California), 33 players: 1.) Grixis Control 2.) Goblins 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Turbo Depths 5.) Death & Taxes 6.) U/W Landstill 7.) Sneak & Show 8.) BUG Delver

    Note: I've been classifying the varied Japanese "UBR Junk" lists as Grixis Control.

  6. #66
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

    August 5, Eternal Challenge II - DF @ PvP, 47 players: 1.) Burn 2.) Pox 3.) Death & Taxes 4.) OmniTell w/ Sneak 5.) Burn 6.) Death's Shadow 7.) Dragon Stompy 8.) Slivers

  7. #67

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Looks like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver have lost some steam compared to right after the bannings, while Grixis Control has been picking up steam. It's all pretty in flux.

  8. #68

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by LOLWut View Post
    Looks like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver have lost some steam compared to right after the bannings, while Grixis Control has been picking up steam. It's all pretty in flux.
    Yes, in the long run is always matter of "find what match good with good blue xerox cantrip shell"

  9. #69

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulabnar View Post
    Yes, in the long run is always matter of "find what match good with good blue xerox cantrip shell"
    It could be funny, but it's actually a little bit sad. They tried to stop miracles, miracles is now up again, they try to stop grixis good stuff, it's now also on the up. Which should make obvious that the issue (if you chose to think there is one) is not with individual cards, but with the xerox cantrip shell, but alas, it doesn't.

  10. #70

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    The issue with Grixis and Miracle is Snapcaster Mage. Everyone is playing 4.

    That with a stuffed graveyard is pretty much the best tool possible to hold
    AND card advantage.

    Combined with cards that were already granting card advantage is just absurd (Hymn to Tourach, Kolaghan’s Command, Predict, Accumulated Knowledge)

  11. #71
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    It's Necropotence all over again. More sacrifices to the altar!

    It's surprising, though. They've tamped down on the cantrips in every other format but Pauper, and the history of all manner of different card games routinely shows high velocity strategies are the best thing to do. Xerox is particularily hilarious since there were articles about how "Brainstorm is the best thing to do in Legacy" years before Innistrad ever saw print. That's been proven to be amply true time and time again and nothing happens.

    It's similar to movement abilities in other games. In eg. League of Legends, the devs are on record saying they have to make movement abilities basically broken for people to even consider picking them, but pros would tear the game in half with them if they did it and they'd all be playing those abilities. They intentionally design movement abilities to "read bad" because that's when they typically are at a good power level. The effect is huge, even if they seem bad on a quick read. I think velocity is much the same. The effect is so fundamentally good the cards have to look bad for the effects to be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear
    (On Innistrad)
    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  12. #72
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban survival"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban treasure cruise"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban Dig Through Time"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban Top"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban Deathrite"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Earthcraft is too powerful for legacy"
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  13. #73
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    We have a thread for this talk, it ain't in here.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  14. #74
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Note: I've been classifying the varied Japanese "UBR Junk" lists as Grixis Control.
    Grixis Junk is a very fitting name for the archetype.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban survival"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban treasure cruise"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban Dig Through Time"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban Top"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Fine we'll ban Deathrite"
    "Hey WOTC look at brainstorms numbers they're pretty high"
    "Earthcraft is too powerful for legacy"
    The solution here is to ban chalice of the void.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Grixis Junk is a very fitting name for the archetype.
    Prefer Grixis tap-out jammy jams.

  16. #76
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    One tournament added, OP rankings updated:

    August 12, MTGO Challenge, 7 rounds: 1.) ANT 2.) Grixis Delver 3.) Eldrazi 4.) Turbo Depths 5.) Sneak & Show 6.) Turbo Depths 7.) Grixis Delver 8.) Sneak & Show 9.) Steel Stompy 10.) Grixis Delver 11.) Death & Taxes 12.) Grixis Control 13.) Elves 14.) Steel Stompy 15.) Burn 16.) U/R Delver

    Note: There's some question as to where Sneak & Show ends and where OmniTell begins. Previously, I labeled lists with Omniscience + Cunning Wish as OmniTell, and if it had Sneak Attack I'd just note it. A number of these lists now run 2-3 Cunning Wish and Sneak Attack, but don't have a combo finish like Release the Ants in the wish board. I feel that if you always win with Griselbrand/Emrakul, it's Sneak & Show, and if you have the Omniscience/Cunning Wish/wish board non-combat kill, it's OmniTell. Is that how others see it? So I switched three over. Of course, there's always the option to combine if people want that, ignoring if it's U/R, Mono U, U/B, etc.

  17. #77
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    I can agree with your reasoning. I think they should be different since I definitely board a bit differently depending on the decks. I know against straight up omni needle effects and revoker are useless whereas they are worth boarding against sneak. Similar to ANT and TES where yes the game plan is incredibly similar, but they do demand slightly different answers
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  18. #78

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Notice no Miracle anymore.. I have been saying it for quite some time

    Both UW and Jeskai Miracle are quite subpar. They cantrip into Ovlivion then die for a resolved Bitterblossom/TNN

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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    They cantrip into Ovlivion then die for a resolved Bitterblossom/TNN
    But cantrips are so powerful! How could a person lose by drawing more of them?

    EDIT: Also, SHARKCASTER MAGE.
    All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
    PM me if you want to contribute!
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Notice no Miracle anymore.. I have been saying it for quite some time

    Both UW and Jeskai Miracle are quite subpar. They cantrip into Ovlivion then die for a resolved Bitterblossom/TNN
    Literally last weekend one of the events had 4 of the top 8 were miracles. Just because you go one weekend without a top 8 doesn't mean the deck is dead
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

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