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Thread: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

  1. #101
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    Agreed, grixis control lost Leovold, a mana dork and the ability to handle enchantments. It's still doing it's thing just weaker.
    Grixis Control didn't play Leovold. Czech Pile did. Grixis Control was three colors, and Czech was four colors.

  2. #102

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by ahg113 View Post
    What deck was supposed to be neutered with the DRS ban? Or conversely, given room to breath?
    Reanimator. But it will never make sense in a world with SnT and Artisan.

    They both blank Containment Priest and Surgical Extraction. Boseiju blanks every possible counter and you have the color to dig the deck enough to find everything needed.

    IMHO it should be the next ban.

  3. #103

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Green color seems definitively dead.

    R.i.p

  4. #104

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    This thread is awesome! Super useful!
    Are you going to add the extra eternal weekend results? 9-32 since it was so big

  5. #105
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by imreal66 View Post
    This thread is awesome! Super useful!
    Are you going to add the extra eternal weekend results? 9-32 since it was so big
    Thanks! I'm actually just about to update it, with a bonus breakdown that I think is interesting.

  6. #106
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    I'll cap it with 6 weeks+ of post-ban results. I've also cut the rankings in half, to show the first 3 weeks+ of results (weekends of July 14, 21, 28 + two earlier tourneys), and the most recent, second 3 weeks of results (weekends of August 4, 11, 18).

    Also added:

    August 11, LCL August 2018, 46 players: 1.) RUG Delver 2.) BUG Delver 3.) Steel Stompy 4.) Grixis Control 5.) ANT 6.) Sneak & Show 7.) Goblins 8.) Grixis Control

    August 18-19, Eternal Weekend Asia 2018, 626 players: 9.) Grixis Control 10.) Bomberman 11.) Miracles 12.) U/R Delver 13.) RUG Delver 14.) Steel Stompy 15.) U/R OmniTell 16.) ANT 17.) Grixis Control 18.) OmniTell 19.) Eldrazi & Taxes 20.) Death's Shadow 21.) Death & Taxes 22.) Grixis Control 23.) Death's Shadow 24.) Eldrazi 25.) GWb Maverick 26.) Grixis Delver 27.) U/R Delver 28.) Lands 29.) Death's Shadow 30.) Grixis Control 31.) Turbo Depths 32.) Grixis Delver

    In total, the first 6 weeks+ post-ban:

    Grixis Control: 331 points
    Miracles: 300
    Death & Taxes: 228
    Sneak & Show: 216
    UWx Stoneblade: 204
    Death's Shadow: 181
    Grixis Delver: 165
    RUG Delver: 151
    Lands: 150
    OmniTell: 116
    Eldrazi: 110
    ANT: 109
    Dark Depths: 105
    U/R Delver: 104
    Steel Stompy: 89
    Goblins: 78
    B/R Reanimator: 76
    12-Post: 69
    Dragon Stompy: 62
    Big Eldrazi: 60
    TES: 58
    Aggro Loam: 57
    Elves: 50
    Infect: 47
    Reanimator: 40
    Merfolk: 37
    Pox: 35
    Burn: 34
    Maverick: 30
    UWx Helm: 26
    Bomberman: 24
    BUG Delver: 24
    Zombardment: 21
    Dredge: 20
    Eldrazi & Taxes: 18
    Tezzeret Control: 17
    Aluren: 16
    UWR Delver: 16
    Tin Fins: 15
    Food Chain: 14
    Jund: 14
    UWx Landstill: 14
    BUG Control: 9
    Mono Red Sneak Attack: 9
    Reanimator Depths: 9
    U/B Helm Combo: 9
    Humans: 8
    B/W Deadguy/D&T: 7
    Czech Pile: 7
    Faeries: 7
    Imperial Painter: 7
    Lands/Storm Combo: 7
    Punishing Dack: 7
    Shardless BUG: 7
    Soldier Stompy: 7
    U/B Control/Reanimator: 7
    U/W Miracles/Stoneblade: 7
    BUG Lands: 6
    High Tide: 6
    Mono B Reanimator: 6
    RUG Cascade: 6
    Slivers: 6
    Tempo Zoo: 6

    The first 3 weeks+ post-ban:

    Miracles: 198 points
    Sneak & Show: 157
    UWx Stoneblade: 135
    Grixis Control: 134
    Death & Taxes: 125
    RUG Delver: 101
    Eldrazi: 70
    ANT: 66
    Lands: 66
    OmniTell: 64
    Goblins: 58
    Grixis Delver: 53
    Dragon Stompy: 49
    Dark Depths: 48
    Big Eldrazi: 46
    B/R Reanimator: 43
    Death's Shadow: 39
    Steel Stompy: 38
    Aggro Loam: 36
    Elves: 36
    TES: 36
    U/R Delver: 35
    12-Post: 32
    Infect: 30
    Merfolk: 22
    Dredge: 20
    Maverick: 20
    Pox: 20
    UWx Helm: 19
    Aluren: 16
    UWR Delver: 16
    Reanimator: 15
    Bomberman: 14
    Zombardment: 14
    Tezzeret Control: 11
    BUG Delver: 10
    BUG Control: 9
    Mono Red Sneak Attack: 9
    Reanimator Depths: 9
    U/B Helm Combo: 9
    Eldrazi & Taxes: 8
    Humans: 8
    UWx Landstill: 8
    B/W Deadguy/D&T: 7
    Czech Pile: 7
    Food Chain: 7
    Imperial Painter: 7
    Lands/Storm Combo: 7
    Punishing Dack: 7
    Shardless BUG: 7
    Soldier Stompy: 7
    U/W Miracles/Stoneblade: 7
    BUG Lands: 6
    Burn: 6
    High Tide: 6
    Jund: 6
    RUG Cascade: 6
    Tempo Zoo: 6

    The second 3 weeks post-ban:

    Grixis Control: 197 points
    Death’s Shadow: 142
    Grixis Delver: 112
    Death & Taxes: 103
    Miracles: 102
    Lands: 84
    U/R Delver: 69
    UWx Stoneblade: 69
    Sneak & Show: 59
    Dark Depths: 57
    OmniTell: 52
    Steel Stompy: 51
    RUG Delver: 50
    ANT: 43
    Eldrazi: 40
    12-Post: 37
    B/R Reanimator: 33
    Burn: 28
    Reanimator: 25
    TES: 22
    Aggro Loam: 21
    Goblins: 20
    Infect: 17
    Merfolk: 15
    Pox: 15
    Tin Fins: 15
    Big Eldrazi: 14
    BUG Delver: 14
    Elves: 14
    Dragon Stompy: 13
    Bomberman: 10
    Eldrazi & Taxes: 10
    Maverick: 10
    Jund: 8
    Czech Pile: 7
    Faeries: 7
    Food Chain: 7
    U/B Control/Reanimator: 7
    UWx Helm: 7
    Zombardment: 7
    Mono B Reanimator: 6
    Slivers: 6
    Tezzeret Control: 6
    UWx Landstill: 6

  7. #107

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Told you. Miracle is dropping fast and that will continue

  8. #108

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    This was awesome!!! Great information regarding the format.

  9. #109

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    What's going on with the pointy ears? In the last three weeks, they have fewer points than Pox; it's been a pretty big drop-off. I mean, Elves was a good deck before DRS. Did the banning really hurt them that much?

    Looking at the top-performing decks right now, it doesn't look that hostile, even if there's a lot of stuff like Miracles and Show & Tell, not that I'm an Elves expert. Bad combo match ups like Storm and Reanimator aren't super common. Plenty of good match ups like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver. I'm curious if people aren't playing it (and why, and it's warranted), or if people are playing it but losing (and why). I actually have no idea how Elves does against the new bois Grixis Control and Death's Shadow.

  10. #110
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Pinned. I will remove the pin once the thread is no longer being updated.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
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    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  11. #111

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Grixis Control didn't play Leovold. Czech Pile did. Grixis Control was three colors, and Czech was four colors.
    Nice smart asss comment, did you feel good after that?

    But actually it only shows that you did not get the point and your lack of understanding of deck strategies and their context in the grand scheme of the legacy metagame.

    Yeah obviously I meant C.Pile that played Leovold, with DRS it was the defacto best Hymn/Snap/K.Command deck. Grixis Control existed back than but was just a worse version of that deck (not talking about grixis pyro here since you are splitting hair over terminology, as that decks aim was to exploit Y.Pyro/Probe/Therapy).

    So I was obviously referring to the current version of G.Control, which is just the no-drs-adapted version of C.Pile. Thus i shortcurt to: "(current) Grixis Control lost leovold" instead of "C.Pile lost Levold and in consequence dropped green so its now grixis control".
    Last edited by MorphBerlin; 08-27-2018 at 03:48 AM.

  12. #112
    The green Ancestral
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by MorphBerlin View Post
    Nice smart asss comment, did you feel good after that?

    But actually it only shows that you did not get the point and your lack of understanding of deck strategies and their context in the grand scheme of the legacy metagame.

    Yeah obviously I meant C.Pile that played Leovold, with DRS it was the defacto best Hymn/Snap/K.Command deck. Grixis Control existed back than but was just a worse version of that deck (not talking about grixis pyro here since you are splitting hair over terminology, as that decks aim was to exploit Y.Pyro/Probe/Therapy).

    So I was obviously referring to the current version of G.Control, which is just the no-drs-adapted version of C.Pile. Thus i shortcurt to: "(current) Grixis Control lost leovold" instead of "C.Pile lost Levold and in consequence dropped green so its no grixis control".
    Lots of people use this forum, including people new to the format. There isn't enough care taken with deck identification these days, so we get things like TES labeled ANT and 4c Loam labeled Punishing Abzan. I'd rather we be pedantic but correct with names than lazy and incorrect.

  13. #113

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Lava Snacks View Post
    What's going on with the pointy ears? In the last three weeks, they have fewer points than Pox; it's been a pretty big drop-off. I mean, Elves was a good deck before DRS. Did the banning really hurt them that much?

    Looking at the top-performing decks right now, it doesn't look that hostile, even if there's a lot of stuff like Miracles and Show & Tell, not that I'm an Elves expert. Bad combo match ups like Storm and Reanimator aren't super common. Plenty of good match ups like Death & Taxes and Grixis Delver. I'm curious if people aren't playing it (and why, and it's warranted), or if people are playing it but losing (and why). I actually have no idea how Elves does against the new bois Grixis Control and Death's Shadow.
    Elves has lost its ability to win outside of combat, which is huge against blue fair and control decks. The deck is much more dependent on winning via one of its combos now, which has usually been the less reliable method for pulling off wins against grindy blue decks (mostly referring to Natural Order). On top of that the deck also lost all the incidental benefits that deathrite provided in the form of graveyard hard and stabilizing by eating creatures, so I would argue that losing deathrite has hurt elves far more than anticipated. Elves still has positive match ups against non-blue midrange decks and most grindy blue decks, but the deck's threat density has been crippled significantly. It's no longer able to pivot as easily into a midrange role when necessary, and overall the amount of threatening plays that the deck used to have access to is reduced.

    Combo decks are still bad match ups, -1-1 hate is far more effective now, the graveyard is harder to interact with, and llanowar elves is so much worse than deathrite late in the game that it's not even close to a reasonable replacement in terms of power level. I still love playing the deck and I think it can do reasonably well in a big tournament in the hands of a skilled player, but the deck lost something irreplaceable that has damaged its overall viability.

  14. #114

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Well boarders have never been so undefined.

    The real identifying point of Aggro is Stifle, Wasteland and Daze? Is Elves aggro or combo?

    Will Miracle ever get a decent finisher or do we still have to experiment desperate things like TNN and Avacyn?

  15. #115

    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Well boarders have never been so undefined.

    The real identifying point of Aggro is Stifle, Wasteland and Daze? Is Elves aggro or combo?

    Will Miracle ever get a decent finisher or do we still have to experiment desperate things like TNN and Avacyn?
    Stifle + Daze + Wasteland are TEMPO not aggro. Eldrazi is Aggro, Maverick is aggro, Steel Stompy is aggro.

    Elves is now more or less a combo that doesn't work well

    Miracle with TNN remembers me old 2000 Keeper with Morphling

  16. #116
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    "Maverick is an aggro deck"

    It's an aggro deck in the same way Stoneblade is TNN tribal.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I still have a strong suspicion that if 'Thalia, Heretic Cathar' had been named 'Frank, Heretic Cathar', people would be a lot more skeptical of it.
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    Ugh, there he goes again, talking about the girlfriend. We get it dude.

  17. #117
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds View Post
    "Maverick is an aggro deck"

    It's an aggro deck in the same way Stoneblade is TNN tribal.
    Miracles is an aggro deck.
    Lands is an aggro deck.
    Turbo Depths is an aggro deck.
    Skill and Show is an aggro deck.
    Delver is a control deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
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    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  18. #118
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Well boarders have never been so undefined.

    The real identifying point of Aggro is Stifle, Wasteland and Daze? Is Elves aggro or combo?

    Will Miracle ever get a decent finisher or do we still have to experiment desperate things like TNN and Avacyn?
    Do Mentor and Entreat not count as finishers? I'm not really sure what more you could want between Mentor Entreat and Jace.
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    Top quality german restraint there.

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  19. #119
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    Do Mentor and Entreat not count as finishers? I'm not really sure what more you could want between Mentor Entreat and Jace.

    There was always a noisy but small contingent of Miracles players that even durning half a decade of dominance complained about how bad they had it at all times. It defy's all logic.

    Entreat would be better if the non miracle side was a swords to plowshares or a negate.
    Mentor would be more helpful if it had a ETB effect.
    Jace could really close out games better if his ultimate just wasn't so high.


    Oh poor poor miracles players so hard done by.

  20. #120
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    Re: Results and Meta Post-DRS/Probe Banning

    If only they had U2: win the game.

    If only.
    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    I still have a strong suspicion that if 'Thalia, Heretic Cathar' had been named 'Frank, Heretic Cathar', people would be a lot more skeptical of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Goin Aggro View Post
    Ugh, there he goes again, talking about the girlfriend. We get it dude.

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