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Thread: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

  1. #21
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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    I'm pretty sure the dot matrix hasn't been replicated so far. Same goes for actual card texture.
    Well yeah the fakes from what I understand aren't perfect yet.
    But sleeve playable and good enough for high level players to be embarrassed with disqualifications is pretty close to good.

    What I meant more what what new technology could Wizard's include to end counterfeiters that wouldn't just delay them a month before they were back in business. Holo-stamps were supposed to be that thing, but seems even that is on its way to being solved.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  2. #22
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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    i hope the counterfeits lead to a drastic change of the buisness model. selling packs is the same crap as lootboxes and basically gambling. Marketing Magic as a childs game with that gambling aspect is immoral in the first place. Just sell preconstructed sets and call it a day. Some cards would still be more valuable for trading aspects, but nothing will go through the roof like it does now. Reprint the chase cards everytime they peak the precon price (lets say 20$)
    When it comes to the reserved list, it could defintely be abandoned without crashing the secondary market, because beta cards will always be more valuable than reprints, as we aleady see today. Its questionable that fakes will become indistinguishable from the real cards, because than it would probably still better to fake stamps or baseball cards.
    Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?

  3. #23
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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    Just sell preconstructed sets and call it a day.
    How would you draft or play sealed under that model?

  4. #24

    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    How would you draft or play sealed under that model?
    Not. Eliminate those atrocious formats ;)

  5. #25

    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    i hope the counterfeits lead to a drastic change of the buisness model. selling packs is the same crap as lootboxes and basically gambling. Marketing Magic as a childs game with that gambling aspect is immoral in the first place. Just sell preconstructed sets and call it a day.
    I stopped reading at "immoral" but forced myself to digest another sentence. Just finished throwing up. It sounds like you live a stale life that taste like cheese and crackers. We should ban Kinder eggs as well. After all, I'd never forgive someone for opening something nicer than my gift.

  6. #26

    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    i hope the counterfeits lead to a drastic change of the buisness model. selling packs is the same crap as lootboxes and basically gambling. Marketing Magic as a childs game with that gambling aspect is immoral in the first place. Just sell preconstructed sets and call it a day. Some cards would still be more valuable for trading aspects, but nothing will go through the roof like it does now. Reprint the chase cards everytime they peak the precon price (lets say 20$)
    When it comes to the reserved list, it could defintely be abandoned without crashing the secondary market, because beta cards will always be more valuable than reprints, as we aleady see today. Its questionable that fakes will become indistinguishable from the real cards, because than it would probably still better to fake stamps or baseball cards.
    Your post is lacking the reason for WotC to do any of that since I am 99% sure that they are making more money with the current model compared to your dumpster fire of an idea.

  7. #27
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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    uhm, the reason is the amount of packs you need to open to get the chase cards. that is the main reason for high prices of singles and the amount of boxes sold. the moment the chase cards become worthless because of counterfeits the whole buisness model collapses.

    ofc the current model makes them more money, because its gambling and the bank always wins. It might be ok for a grown up to throw his money into this card casino, but its definitely a scam for kids. I remember lots of friends who threw all their pocket money into packs and only opened trash.

    precons can still support limited formats, because then it just becomes some sort of cubedraft/sealed with multiples.
    Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?

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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    precons can still support limited formats, because then it just becomes some sort of cubedraft/sealed with multiples.
    But it gets immediately solved and then stale for the next 3 months...

  9. #29

    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    i hope the counterfeits lead to a drastic change of the buisness model. selling packs is the same crap as lootboxes and basically gambling.
    Not really, because you (as far as I understand) can't trade or sell what you get from lootboxes. You just have to buy them and hope you get what you want, whereas with Magic booster packs you can actually trade them for other things... or just not bother with booster packs at all (outside of perhaps draft), and just get your cards individually.

    I'm also unsure as to how switching to something like an LCG would have any effect on counterfeiting?

    Marketing Magic as a childs game with that gambling aspect is immoral in the first place.
    Given that all the booster packs have "13+" written on them, I'm uncertain that it's really marketed as a child's game. You'd have a better point if you were talking about the Pokemon TCG (not necessarily a particularly good point, but a better one). Though I don't think there's been any real push by anyone to classify the Pokemon TCG as gambling...

  10. #30
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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    I dont know Pokemon prices on singles. It only becomes gambling, when card prices are too wide spread. The moment you can open 100$ cards and the rest is basically worthless its not just random cards anymore.
    Got tired of Legacy and you like drafts? Try my Paupercube What?

  11. #31

    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    uhm, the reason is the amount of packs you need to open to get the chase cards. that is the main reason for high prices of singles and the amount of boxes sold. the moment the chase cards become worthless because of counterfeits the whole buisness model collapses.

    ofc the current model makes them more money, because its gambling and the bank always wins. It might be ok for a grown up to throw his money into this card casino, but its definitely a scam for kids. I remember lots of friends who threw all their pocket money into packs and only opened trash.

    precons can still support limited formats, because then it just becomes some sort of cubedraft/sealed with multiples.
    If counterfeits come as far as their inprint chase cards being undistinguishable the paper model will collapse as a whole and your preconstructed "solution" is garbarge as well because why would i bother spending money on that product when I can just get the counterfeit at 0.1 $? In no way would they make enough money just out of that to keep up their whole R&D. They would have to rely on their digital client or something then.

    Also this will never happen if you know anything about the counterfeits

  12. #32

    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    ofc the current model makes them more money, because its gambling and the bank always wins. It might be ok for a grown up to throw his money into this card casino, but its definitely a scam for kids. I remember lots of friends who threw all their pocket money into packs and only opened trash.
    And I remember lots of friends opening packs to cards like Thoughtseize, V. Clique, foil commons, etc. What exactly is your point? That toy manufacturer's want to make a profit? Are toys a scam by that logic, since their ROI is lower than buying MTG packs? All you seem to be talking about is ROI, which is far higher in MTG than in basically every other toy and/or card-game. Want to not gamble? Buy some packs and store them in your closet, I promise you they will be worth more than what you purchased them for in 5 years.

  13. #33
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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Again, buy packs and throw them into closet. Sell in 5 years for a profit. Open the pack and you lose value, just like every other toy. Only you have a chance at opening a foil Goyf, whereas opening anything else... is just opening it.

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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    so i just got (off ebay) a city of traitors and 4 bitterblossom that were fake.
    the seller "lightened" the photos in the listing so they looked real but they are darker than real cards.
    the sheen off the fake cards looks different and the "feel" of the fake cards is too slick.

    under a loupe, the fake cards' text is a combination of CMYK and a little fuzzy where a real card is crisp and just black overprinting.
    the back of the fake cards is just too dark, overall.

    there were other high dollar (snapcasters and thougthseizes) cards from this seller and it all looked legit including a 650 - 98% ebay rating...

    seller's name is: jamisoarend0

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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    so i just got (off ebay) a city of traitors and 4 bitterblossom that were fake.

    seller's name is: jamisoarend0
    Your story is a little open ended. We're you knowingly buying fakes or what?

    On another note, that guy on mtggoldfish claiming that fakes are bad for the game and for LGS's couldn't be more wrong. If you can't trust the online market to provide real cards where must you go? My LGS is the only place I trust anymore.
    When other people do not assert themselves, they may still have something to be proud of, something that they believe is unrivalled, but it is just that they have not got the same vulgarity of throwing their weight about and imposing themselves and their beliefs on other people. - Dunduzu Kalui Chisiza

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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by umbowta View Post
    Your story is a little open ended. We're you knowingly buying fakes or what?.
    The seller had multiple staple cards up for auction but in such a way as to not scream "Fake!"
    The images on ebay had been lightened to look like real cards (the fakes i received are dark).
    I put my high-bid in on all of his staple auctions and won two auctions. I do/did and still now need a city of traitors.

    I'm making all the right phone calls and sending e-mails to get my money back.

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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    The seller had multiple staple cards up for auction but in such a way as to not scream "Fake!"
    The images on ebay had been lightened to look like real cards (the fakes i received are dark).
    I put my high-bid in on all of his staple auctions and won two auctions. I do/did and still now need a city of traitors.

    I'm making all the right phone calls and sending e-mails to get my money back.
    And there we have it. If we can't trust an online marketplace we have to go to the LGS to buy cards. Along with that, selling our cards becomes more difficult unless we trade in to the LGS at about half value. I trust no one. Face to face with both parties inspecting cards and cash is the only way to be sure.

    I hope justice prevails, non- inflammable.

    As for me, I'll keep my real cards of high dollar value locked in a safety deposit box and play with proxies/fakes/ whatever.
    When other people do not assert themselves, they may still have something to be proud of, something that they believe is unrivalled, but it is just that they have not got the same vulgarity of throwing their weight about and imposing themselves and their beliefs on other people. - Dunduzu Kalui Chisiza

    If you think a topic is dumb, don't add to it. Pretty simple. - Bardo

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    Re: What happened to the Chinese counterfeit apocalypse predicted in 2014?

    Quote Originally Posted by umbowta View Post
    we have to go to the LGS to buy cards (and) selling our cards becomes more difficult unless we trade in to the LGS at about half value. I trust no one. Face to face with both parties inspecting cards and cash is the only way to be sure.
    100%...
    the relationships we create and foster through online forums or real life transactions will be incredibly important moving forward.
    i know that selling for a good price will be hard, but getting half at the LGS will be easy - pick one!

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