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Thread: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

  1. #241

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Small event with a similar list as previous
    Inspired by Gavin Enderlin (Basic_Swamp on MTGO) I cut 1 Dismember for 1 Snuff Out but that was the only change from the previous version

    2-0 UBRG Control
    1-2 Chalice Post
    2-1 UG Eldrazi Stompy (No chalice but with Stirrings, Hierarch, Stub)

    I think Snuff Out has a lot of upsides for 0 mana but idk if I would want to play 2 because being able to overpay mana for dismember can be good and 2x copies of an uncontrollable -4 life could be a bit risky

    To compensate for Gargoyle being relatively weak defensively I could see it being correct to cut the preordain and/or 1 stub for a 2nd push or a Drown in the Loch

  2. #242
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Ark4n has been doing well with UB Shadow in the last few days.
    He got another 5-0 yesterday (or at least one, while I was tuned in).

    I think Gurmag is likely the tertiary threat you generally want, unless there is some really compelling metagame factor to mitigate.

    Snuff Out has been pretty good for him too.
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  3. #243

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I think Gurmag is likely the tertiary threat you generally want, unless there is some really compelling metagame factor to mitigate.
    Borrower is really popular now which is something to consider

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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Borrower is really popular now which is something to consider
    Ah, yeah, I think I'd be more likely to consider that a sideboard card, but I could see it being maindeck material in certain metas. Like, if you are apt to see lots of Chalice, or Depth, for example. Even so, I still think you'd want at least one Angler though.
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    The slot my main deck Borrower takes is the 2nd Reanimate, still 2 anglers. Borrower is generally better in my metagame atm than reanimate.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 03-02-2020 at 08:21 AM.
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  6. #246

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Ah, yeah, I think I'd be more likely to consider that a sideboard card, but I could see it being maindeck material in certain metas. Like, if you are apt to see lots of Chalice, or Depth, for example. Even so, I still think you'd want at least one Angler though.
    Well that's 1 way to interpret it (you can play your own Borrower competing for slots with your Angler) but what I meant was if Borrower is popular for your opponent then it makes Angler a lot worse (when your delve creature gets bounced it can be hard to replay it again)

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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Well that's 1 way to interpret it (you can play your own Borrower competing for slots with your Angler) but what I meant was if Borrower is popular for your opponent then it makes Angler a lot worse (when your delve creature gets bounced it can be hard to replay it again)
    Ah, ok, even so, I still think it is worth it to play Angler.

    Anecdotal evidence of Basic_Swamp taking 4th in the recent Showcase:
    Creature (16)
    2 Brazen Borrower
    4 Death's Shadow
    4 Delver of Secrets
    2 Gurmag Angler
    4 Street Wraith

    Sorcery (8)
    4 Ponder
    4 Thoughtseize

    Instant (18)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Daze
    1 Drown in the Loch
    1 Fatal Push
    2 Force of Negation
    4 Force of Will
    2 Snuff Out

    Land (18)
    2 Flooded Strand
    1 Marsh Flats
    2 Polluted Delta
    4 Scalding Tarn
    2 Underground Sea
    4 Wasteland
    3 Watery Grave
    60 Cards

    Sideboard (15)
    2 Blue Elemental Blast
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Null Rod
    2 Plague Engineer
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    1 Stubborn Denial
    2 Surgical Extraction
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Another good UB Shadow showing at the Showcase challenge online, 4th place:

    https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=33638&iddeck=299069

    Ark4n placed well again at 17th place:

    https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=33638&iddeck=299082

    And finally TrueHero at 26th in the same challenge:

    https://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=33638&iddeck=299091

    This makes me think that UB Shadow seems like a decent deck against the Breach upsurge. Breach was everywhere in this challenge.

    EDIT: All of those lists are similar, maybe even to a card (I didn't get that detailed with my observations.)

    1) Reanimate has been taken out for Brazen Borrower
    2) Snuff Out has replaced Dismember completely
    3) Drown in the Loch showed up in every list x1
    4) Hymn to Tourach x4 in the sideboard was consistent across all 3 of those lists.
    5) This setup can be attributed, at least in part, to the slightly different online metagame
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    I'll be headed to a weekly tonight, taking the above well-performing lists but with a few minor changes.( -2 Snuff Out/+1 Fatal Push/+1 Dismember), budget manabase, and I am going to try Umezawa's Jitte in the board. Hopefully I can pull off a win or two this week!
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  11. #251

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    I played this list a few times for fun:

    Companion

    Obosh, the Preypiercer

    Main

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Delver of Secrets
    3 Ponder
    1 Preordain
    2 Stubborn Denial
    4 Death's Shadow
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Dismember
    2 Reanimate
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Brazen Borrower
    2 Force of Negation
    2 Dismember
    4 Force of Will
    4 Street Wraith
    2 Gurmag Angler
    4 Wasteland
    4 Watery Grave
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Flooded Strand
    1 Marsh Flassts
    1 Misty Rainforest
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Scalding Tarn
    1 Verdant Catacombs

    Sideboard

    1 Blue Elemental Blast
    1 Hydroblast
    2 Mystical Dispute
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Dread of Night
    1 Plague Engineer
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Karakas
    1 Nihil Spellbomb


    I wanted to see how valuable it would be to just always have a 5-mana 6/5 as a hedge against flooding out, especially in matchups where Wasteland isn't good. Effectively doubling all your creatures' powers is an added bonus. In testing, as expected, I hardly every cast Obosh and it was pretty low-impact. It would either be a win-more or not enough. However, I was surprised how little I missed Daze and now wonder if Daze should be cut or shaved for more impactful cards.

  12. #252
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Make 2 SB cuts, add 2x Steady Progress, you need outs to Chalice.

  13. #253

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    Make 2 SB cuts, add 2x Steady Progress, you need outs to Chalice.
    I like it. And no more feel-bads when you shut off your own Dazes with proliferate. May be hard to get to 3 mana in time for this when you can't cantrip though.

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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by aedrew View Post
    I like it. And no more feel-bads when you shut off your own Dazes with proliferate. May be hard to get to 3 mana in time for this when you can't cantrip though.
    Trying to draw mana is a better place to be than having no answer. Also can't Daze with oddball companion declared.

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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    UB Shadow came up in the Obosh thread under N&D

    We had Dark Ritual. It does a couple things:
    - accelerates out Obosh
    - accelerates Angler so you can go up to 3 copies (which gives you more threats and helps turn on Stubborn Denial, compensating for lack of Daze)
    - makes Street Wraith hardcastable
    - helps play Dismember without paying life, if you're under the gun
    - enables multi-card plays (e.g Thoughtseize x 2, Shadow)
    - accelerates out 3s (SB or main) like Ashiok, Plague Engineer and Liliana

    The usual drawback of Dark Ritual is it's card disadvantage and a terrible topdeck. But with Companion you always have a threat to accelerate out, and that free card makes up the card disadvantage.

    A midgame Dark Ritual basically turns into Berserk on your attacking Shadow/Angler/Delver, only they don't die. If you untap and still have Obosh, that's even better.

  16. #256
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    I can definitely see the potential of Obosh, with the obvious hesitancy being the loss of Daze. I think that is solved easily by 2x Stubborn Denial/2x Force of Negation in the maindeck.

    How was Dark Ritual getting added in? I can see -2 Reanimate, but how do the other 2 copies get crammed in?

    EDIT: I found the post, here is the list. Pretty cool, actually. I would never have applied Dark Ritual to Shadow, it just wasn't on my radar screen. Now it's basically enabling a better Temur Battle Rage with Obosh, allows for more copies of Gurmag, which makes Stubborn Denial better, which makes up for the lack of Daze...pretty damn cool. With no outlets for legacy currently this seems like a pipe-dream, but I'll be damned if it doesn't look spicy (and fun) as hell. I think I would probably still stick to 18 lands and just cut a Wasteland. That allows for a 2nd Force of Negation, a 4th Street Wraith, 1x Preordain, or even a 3rd Stubborn Denial.

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    //Spells: 27
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Dark Ritual
    2 Stubborn Denial
    2 Fatal Push
    2 Dismember
    1 Force of Negation

    //Creatures: 14
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Death's Shadow
    3 Street Wraith
    3 Gurmag Angler

    //Lands: 19
    4 Wasteland
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Watery Grave
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Snow-Covered Island
    2 Snow-Covered Swamp

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Obosh, the Preypiercer
    2 Plague Engineer
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Negation
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Ashiok, Dream Render
    1 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Phyrexian Arena
    1 Reanimate
    1 Murderous Cut


    Dark Ritual makes it a bit easier to hit 5 mana. Even if you never hit 5, it's not like you lost a card in hand for Obosh.
    Ritual can also help cast Angler, like old decks used to do with Tombstalker (3 mana + 1 card).

    The only splash that might be worth it is Red for Lightning Bolt (more answers to Lurrus & doubled damage) and Pyroblast in the SB.
    Bolt and Pyroblast seem great, but I don't know if they are necessary. Chalice is a bigger problem with this list, but Force of Negation helps a little with that. I'm not sure what the best Chalice answer is in odd casting costs. I suppose g2 we could sideboard in Abrade/Ratchet Bomb/Steady Progress, but I'm not sure how that works with the Companion rules.
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  17. #257

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I can definitely see the potential of Obosh, with the obvious hesitancy being the loss of Daze. I think that is solved easily by 2x Stubborn Denial/2x Force of Negation in the maindeck.

    How was Dark Ritual getting added in? I can see -2 Reanimate, but how do the other 2 copies get crammed in?

    EDIT: I found the post, here is the list. Pretty cool, actually. I would never have applied Dark Ritual to Shadow, it just wasn't on my radar screen. Now it's basically enabling a better Temur Battle Rage with Obosh, allows for more copies of Gurmag, which makes Stubborn Denial better, which makes up for the lack of Daze...pretty damn cool. With no outlets for legacy currently this seems like a pipe-dream, but I'll be damned if it doesn't look spicy (and fun) as hell. I think I would probably still stick to 18 lands and just cut a Wasteland. That allows for a 2nd Force of Negation, a 4th Street Wraith, 1x Preordain, or even a 3rd Stubborn Denial.



    Bolt and Pyroblast seem great, but I don't know if they are necessary. Chalice is a bigger problem with this list, but Force of Negation helps a little with that. I'm not sure what the best Chalice answer is in odd casting costs. I suppose g2 we could sideboard in Abrade/Ratchet Bomb/Steady Progress, but I'm not sure how that works with the Companion rules.
    That won't work with Companion. Try Ingot Chewer vs. Chalice, perhaps?

    There is also Bedevil, but that costs bunches...

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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    That won't work with Companion. Try Ingot Chewer vs. Chalice, perhaps?

    There is also Bedevil, but that costs bunches...
    Answer all 4 Chalice in their deck (regardless of how many are in play for x=1) with an instant that draws a card: Steady Progress. Don’t splash colors that add nothing, don’t merely 1 for 1, take out all 4 copies of Chalice.

  19. #259

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Well, took my list above to a 3-2 finish in a league. Never put Obosh on the stack. Didn't really miss Daze except for in the Sneak and Show matchup (which I sadly lost).
    I might try a version with a configuration that uses Obosh for matches where Wastelands are bad but uses 2 cmc cards for other match ups.

  20. #260
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    That won't work with Companion. Try Ingot Chewer vs. Chalice, perhaps?

    There is also Bedevil, but that costs bunches...
    I would probably use By Force, it's more flexible. If Reanimate was still tech in the deck, maybe Ingot Chewer would be an option. I've mostly dropped Reanimate in favor of maindeck Brazen Borrower. I also don't think something like Manic Vandal would be bad. Being a body that can chump a Rabblemaster seems like it wouldn't be irrelevant.

    EDIT: Obosh doesn't cut off Borrower does it? The converted cost is in the upper right, so I think its ok, but not totally sure.
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