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Thread: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

  1. #221
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Interesting, I'm debating a green splash for some tech and Painful Truths seems good out of the board, I don't have any copies of Infernal Contract.

    I played in a 5 round 1k yesterday, went 2-3. Wins were against blue Maverick and Punishing Maverick. Losses were to 4c Pile, Bant Miracles, and Burn. I think I need a 2nd Lily Last Hope, that card is bananas.

    EDIT: This is what I'm going to play for a little while, test the waters. I think Hymn to Tourach should have been in the 75, and for now it's in the maindeck. I cut down to 1 Reanimate (it was 'meh') and because the emphasis on reanimating Street Wraith is lower I'm cutting to 3 Wraiths. I think this is fine considering I'm on 4 Watery Grave and 0 Underground Sea.

    4x Death’s Shadow
    4x Delver of Secrets
    3x Street Wraith
    2x Gurmag Angler
    1x Brazen Borrower
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Ponder
    4x Force of Will
    2x Hymn to Tourach
    1x Spell Snare
    4x Daze
    2x Dismember
    2x Fatal Push
    4x Thoughtseize
    1x Reanimate
    4x Polluted Delta
    3x Misty Rainforest
    1x Marsh Flats
    4x Watery Grave
    1x Island
    1x Swamp
    4x Wasteland

    Sideboard
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Nihil Spellbomb
    2x Bitterblossom
    1x Diabolic Edict
    2x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope
    2x Plague Engineer
    1x Brazen Borrower
    1x Blue Elemental Blast
    1x Narset, Parter of Veils
    1x Force of Negation


    I don't like playing Infernal Contract with basic lands, I don't think the BBB will ever be reasonably hit. I'm going to try Narset in those slots as a way to gain card advantage against the Pile/Miracles lists. Once I get a 2nd Liliana Last Hope I think that will replace the Narset. I'm also curious about the 4 Gargoyle plan over Delver...it's slower to get started, but a little easier to turn on as an aggressive threat. It makes Stubborn Denial a better counterspell, for sure.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 02-10-2020 at 12:04 PM.
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  2. #222
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Is there potential for Standstill to come in out of the board for the control matchups? I would think Thoughtseize/Fatal Push/Daze/Force of Will should keep t1 open to land a t2 Standstill and really put pressure on Pile/Miracles. Having played Dreadstill in the past, I know that getting at least 20 lands into the deck is probably necessary, so maybe Mystic Sanctuary + {other utility land} could come in as well to make 20 lands to go with 3x Standstill.

    Thoughts?
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  3. #223

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Is there potential for Standstill to come in out of the board for the control matchups? I would think Thoughtseize/Fatal Push/Daze/Force of Will should keep t1 open to land a t2 Standstill and really put pressure on Pile/Miracles. Having played Dreadstill in the past, I know that getting at least 20 lands into the deck is probably necessary, so maybe Mystic Sanctuary + {other utility land} could come in as well to make 20 lands to go with 3x Standstill.

    Thoughts?
    You have no options to draw into pressure that goes past the standstill (ie Factory) so if you play standstill on an empty board your opponent just ignores it and plays draw-go until they have like 10 lands on the battlefield and then breaks the standstill in your endstep when you have 7 cards in hand already. Now your opponent has enough resources to hardcast Terminus and play around your Dazes and such. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me

  4. #224
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    You have no options to draw into pressure that goes past the standstill (ie Factory) so if you play standstill on an empty board your opponent just ignores it and plays draw-go until they have like 10 lands on the battlefield and then breaks the standstill in your endstep when you have 7 cards in hand already. Now your opponent has enough resources to hardcast Terminus and play around your Dazes and such. Doesn't seem like a good idea to me
    Good call. I think without landing a threat first (Delver/reanimated Street Wraith) it would be terrible without Factories. Mana advantage gets sticky too, when they draw more lands (as you say.) I'll leave it out. I was just trying to come up with a more efficient way to gain card advantage than Infernal Contract. Search for Azcanta comes to mind as well. I want to figure out something that doesn't cost 3 mana that isn't a PW; once the 3 mana threshold gets hit Liliana the last Hope and Narset are both superior choices, in my opinion, than a draw 3 for 3.

    EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize Contract drew 4 cards. I love the synergy, hate the mana cost.
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  5. #225

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Good call. I think without landing a threat first (Delver/reanimated Street Wraith) it would be terrible without Factories. Mana advantage gets sticky too, when they draw more lands (as you say.) I'll leave it out. I was just trying to come up with a more efficient way to gain card advantage than Infernal Contract. Search for Azcanta comes to mind as well. I want to figure out something that doesn't cost 3 mana that isn't a PW; once the 3 mana threshold gets hit Liliana the last Hope and Narset are both superior choices, in my opinion, than a draw 3 for 3.

    EDIT: sorry, I didn't realize Contract drew 4 cards. I love the synergy, hate the mana cost.
    Last Hope is a good complement to Contract (I'm playing 2 of each) because you need some way to clean up miracles value creatures so they can't chip you out, and it's also a threat that eventually wins the game.
    Narset is alright but compared to contract 4 cards is significantly more than 2 and it doesn't have the Mystic Sanctuary synergy. (The fact it's Pyroblastable is also a significant drawback in the metagame currently)
    Search for Azcanta "costs 2" in the top right corner but you still have to tap 3 other lands every time you want to use it

  6. #226
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Is Jace, The Mind Sculptor too greedy out of the sideboard? In matchups where games will go longer he seems like a strong way to supplement Bitterblossom/Liliana as must-answer threats. I'm only playing 18 lands, but I know that I'll hit land drops in the Pile/Miracles matchups due to games going longer.

    EDIT: I forgot to add that I would also put a Mystic Sanctuary into the sideboard, both coming in together (Jace + Sanctuary) to give me 19 lands.

    I'm also agonizing over Spell Pierce vs Spell Snare vs Force of Negation vs Stubborn Denial maindeck. I only have room for 1 now that I have 2x Hymn in the maindeck (committed to that for now) so I know it's a small thing to stress over. I feel like Stubborn Denial is just too conditional to ever do anything more than Daze already does (playing only 6 creatures to turn it on as a hard counter.) Snare seems great in problematic matchups (Death and Taxes) while Pierce hits PW's more reliably. Force of Negation seems fine, but it doesn't protect my threats during my turn.
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 02-14-2020 at 11:58 AM.
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  7. #227

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    New result (local paper event)
    4 Shadow
    4 Gargoyle
    4 Wraith
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 FoW
    4 Daze
    4 Hymn
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Stubborn Denial
    2 Dismember
    1 Preordain
    1 Fatal Push
    4 Waste
    4 Grave
    2 Sea
    8 Blue Fetchlands

    SB:
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    2 Liliana's Triumph
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Force of Negation
    2 Infernal Contract
    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction

    R1: Eldrazi Stompy 1-2
    R2: Infect 2-1
    R3: Aggro Loam 2-0
    R4: RUG Delver 1-2
    R5: Moon Stompy 2-1
    T8: Stryfo Pile 2-0
    T4: RUG Delver 2-1
    Final: Eldrazi Dynamo 1-2

    List seems good
    You could maybe move 1 FON to the main over a stub or the preordain to open another SB slot

  8. #228
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    New result (local paper event)
    4 Shadow
    4 Gargoyle
    4 Wraith
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 FoW
    4 Daze
    4 Hymn
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Stubborn Denial
    2 Dismember
    1 Preordain
    1 Fatal Push
    4 Waste
    4 Grave
    2 Sea
    8 Blue Fetchlands

    SB:
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    2 Liliana's Triumph
    2 Plague Engineer
    2 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Force of Negation
    2 Infernal Contract
    1 Mystic Sanctuary
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction

    R1: Eldrazi Stompy 1-2
    R2: Infect 2-1
    R3: Aggro Loam 2-0
    R4: RUG Delver 1-2
    R5: Moon Stompy 2-1
    T8: Stryfo Pile 2-0
    T4: RUG Delver 2-1
    Final: Eldrazi Dynamo 1-2

    List seems good
    You could maybe move 1 FON to the main over a stub or the preordain to open another SB slot
    How important is hymn to the Gargoyle plan? I like the idea of playing gargoyle over delver. I may just take your list to a weekly and see what it does.
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  9. #229

    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    How important is hymn to the Gargoyle plan? I like the idea of playing gargoyle over delver. I may just take your list to a weekly and see what it does.
    Pretty key I think, but the deck should play 4 Hymn regardless in my opinion, and then you can consider whether you want to play 2 Gargoyle + 2 Angler or 2 Jace + 2 Gargoyle or 2 Jace + 2 Angler or whatever
    (i.e. it's not like "wow gargoyle is so good I want to play 4, then how can I enable it, I must play 4 hymn": it's the other way around, gargoyle is viable because the deck happens to have 4 hymn in it)

  10. #230
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    Re: [Primer] UB Death's Shadow

    Cool, thanks for the response. I think a split between Gargoyle/Angler might be bad, considering it lowers the blue count for forces. As it stands I only have 22 blue cards total, which is probably ok. I really like the idea of keeping in Reanimate, so I'm going to try and cram that in there as well. It makes it so I have 10 threats instead of just 8.

    4x Death's Shadow
    4x Street Wraith
    4x Vantress Gargoyle
    4x Brainstorm
    4x Ponder
    4x Thoughtseize
    4x Hymn to Tourach
    4x Daze
    4x Force of Will
    2x Stubborn Denial
    2x Fatal Push
    1x Dismember
    1x Reanimate
    4x Polluted Delta
    3x Misty Rainforest
    1x Marsh Flats
    4x Watery Grave
    1x Island
    1x Swamp
    4x Wasteland

    Sideboard
    2x Plague Engineer
    2x Brazen Borrower
    2x Bitterblossom
    2x Ratchet Bomb
    1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1x Mystic Sanctuary
    2x Surgical Extraction
    1x Nihil Spellbomb
    1x Force of Negation
    1x Liliana, the Last Hope


    This is what I'm going to sleave up for Thursday night. I'm also curious about a more mid-range approach with 19 lands maindeck and playing a 2/2 split of Engineer/Borrower maindeck over Delver/Borrower/Gurmag slots. Reanimate gets a lot more value this way, maybe even maindecking Last Hope, and just dropping the Stubborn Denials. I think without at least 6+ creatures to support Stub it isn't worth including.

    Also, this list just won a Hareruya event in Japan. No Street Wraiths, maindeck Borrowers, basics over USeas. This is basically my mana-base, which is cool to see. Only 27 players, but still a good showing. A full 4 Mystical Dispute in the sideboard.

    https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=24657&f=LE
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

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