I was reading through ReAnimator's new thread on Mausoleum Secrets working with Oath of Ghouls, which is a really cool card advantage engine to build around. Then my brain was in a whirl for how to actually win on the spot after casting Secrets. Living End was my first inclination, but it's a non-bo with cascade (because it could just cascade into another Secrets) and I couldn't incorporate discard to protect the combo. The discussion ended up stalling because he was intending to use Secrets as a toolbox enabler alongside a card advantage engine, while I was trying to break it with a combo win.
The first thing I noticed is this is dirt cheap. The second is that it can operate on basic swamps, which means it will have an incredibly resilient mana-base. The third is that it can operate on several fronts: fast combo (t1 possible), grindy 'pick your window' combo (wipe the board of opponent's creatures and present lethal). This is by no means a tuned list, but I am starting off by using a tried-and-true combo-related template to start the list off: 14 lands to help ensure a t1 land most games, 12 mana boosters, 4 tutors, 20 engine cards, and 7 disruption slots, and 2 win conditions to tutor up. This is close to what storm variants are doing. With up to 8 free 'cyclers' (I'm counting Faerie Macabre) and 16 cyclers for only B, drawing a ton of cards is the goal. Without traditional cantrips it will need to have a ton of raw card draw to hit it's pieces reliably. Shadow of the Grave is a way to go balls-deep and draw a bunch of cards, tutorable with Mausoleum Secrets.
It is quite possible that Faerie Macabre may end up as a sideboard card and Hollow One should be in that slot. For now I will try singletons; if I can draw 3-4 cards, cast Dreams to discard lands and get those 3-4 cyclers back, that should draw me into more cyclers, more mana, tutors, or a win condition. Cabal Ritual should be easily turned on to net me +3 mana on the combo turn, and for that reason I'm avoiding Songs of the Damned for now. Dark Ritual and discard seems to very important for this deck, but I want ways to operate under Chalice of the Void. Cabal Ritual fits that bill nicely. Hard-casting demons wouldn't be the worst plan, but really fails against anything playing Swords to Plowshares. It would end up really with only 1, maybe 2 big threats. Possibly another argument for Hollow One.
So you can understand what I mean, here is rough draft: Change Log, version 3.0 (9/20/2018)
Tutors + Win Conditions - 6
4x Mausoleum Secrets
1x Living Death
1x Mogis's Marauder
Engine Cards - 22
4x Street Wraith
4x Monstrous Carabid
4x Horror of the Broken Lands
3x architects of will
4x Lurching Rotbeast
3x Shadow of the Grave
Fast Mana - 15
4x Lotus Petal
4x Dark Ritual
4x Cabal Ritual
3x Songs of the Damned
Protection/Disruption - 4
4x Thoughtseize
Lands - 13
4x Verdant Catacombs
9x Swamp
Potential Sideboard
4x Faerie Macabre
2x Collective Brutality
3x Fleshbag Marauder
3x Tendrils of Agony
3x Ratchet Bomb
The options for grave-yard protection are slim, but Silent Gravestone comes to mind seeing as how Surgical Extraction is the most common. Rest in Peace and Leyline of the Void will be incredibly difficult to play around, possibly even requiring a splash color. Ratchet Bomb comes to mind (deals with Grafdigger's Cage) but against Leyline that is just too slow. Rest in Peace might be able to be answered by Bomb, but it might not be ideal. Against other combo decks there are a myriad of options in black: Fleshbag Marauder, Shriekmaw, Diabolic Edict, Surgical Extraction, Hymn to Tourach. Another big problem will be Terminus. This deck can race a Terminus, but even 1-2 turns with the option to set it up will be dangerous (not to mention Miracles plays a ton of counterspells.)
Depending on how powerful the draw engine ends up being, I could see a Tendrils of Agony sideboard plan. The fast mana is already there, there are plenty of ways to draw a ton of cards, and chaining Rituals/Petals/Secrets into a storm win could be an option out of the sideboard. The fact it isn't graveyard dependent makes it appealing.
I think this deck could be a super cheap option for newer legacy players, fast, and potentially robust. I'm sure the question will be: why not Br reanimator, isn't that deck already affordable and just better? Yes, it's a great deck. One selling point is that this deck doesn't lose to Diabolic Edict or Pithing Needle (neither does Br reanimator post-board.) I'll have to evaluate how much of a meme deck this is after it gets somewhat tested.
Last edited by Mr. Safety; 09-20-2018 at 09:04 AM.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
What's the win con here?
-rob
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Miracles is a deck, and I wouldn't want to pass the turn to any combo deck. Maybe some other way to make this work?
-rob
Those are definitely valid points. Doing it at instant speed would be ideal, but I don't think there is a way to do that outside of cascade/Living End, which brings it's own challenges. I'll do some research.
Other than miracles/Terminus and grave hate, there really isn't a bad situation for this strategy. That makes it possibly sub-par, but if I can deal with those challenges (Tendrils sideboard maybe?) then I might be able to work this into something cohesive.
EDIT: Entreat the Dead with Brainstorm/Ponder could do it (miracle trigger), making mana at instant speed in response to the miracle trigger. Also, Shadow of the Grave might be the better engine card than Insidious Dreams. It's one more mana but it's an engine unto itself with cyclers and big mana.
EDIT #2: Wake the Dead is an instant, but counterproductive
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I think there has to be some number of fetch lands in here just to make the Cabal Rituals a little more reliable, and like you identified you probably need a splash just to handle some grave hate.
I don't think one Living Death is enough, it might make more sense to have a bunch of them so you can jam them early and often, without having to tutor them.
i'm also not sure that restless dreams really does enough.
A one of Songs of the Damned to tutor for if it will give you more mana than you put into it might be ok. With the tutor package you should probably exploit a few more one of's.
It's possible that a minor Entomb or Buried alive package is necessary so you can kill on the spot some how, either with haste or some direct damage to the opponent on ETB effect.
All good ideas! Songs of the Damned as a 1-of should be fine. Restless Dreams is likely not good enough, you are right. Shadow of the Grave is obviously superior. The further along I get with this I am noticing that instead of Fluctuator I'm leaning on fast mana. This isn't fundamentally bad, especially where I need to generate mana for the win condition anyways.
If I play 4x Mausoleum Secrets and 1-2x Shadow of the Grave, and then 4x Living Death then I would have to cut lands, fast mana, or discard. All of those break the already established template. I could see cutting the Chrome Mox and 1 discard to get 2 more copies of Living Death into the deck, seems fine to me. I think you're pretty shrewd to notice that naturally drawing Living Death is obviously better than Mausoleum Secrets digging for it, just because I would need 7 mana floating to accomplish that. This isn't impossible, not with Cabal Rituals in there, but definitely harder.
Haste would need something like Anger, which would require a splash and Faithless Looting. Once I go into Faithless Looting I think Br reanimator is just flat out the better deck, and it isn't even close, making it smart to just use that deck. Fetchlands are fine, they can be just there to feed Cabal Ritual, but I don't want too many so I can still have a robust mana-base against Blood Moon/Wasteland.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Dammit, I need a creature with cycling that provides haste!!!
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Collective Brutality may be a necessity, just to put Urabrask into my graveyard. Flame-Kin Zealot works as well.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
flayer of the hatebound might be an option too.
Some thoughts:
1) in case of Anger: you COULD Thoughtseize yourself in order to get Anger in the yard too.
2) just maybe, Haunting Misery (Weatherlight) is an option, with all those creatures in the yard.
Sorry, i'm new, don't know how to link the names to the images
1) Anger requires me to control a Mountain to work, so I won't use that. Thoughtseize and Collective Brutality, as you guessed it, are ways for me to get Flame-kin Zealot into the graveyard.
2) Haunting Misery is a decent option, and actually one that doesn't require Living Death. I would need 20 creatures in the graveyard to make it work, which is a TON. Currently I can attack for lethal with only 4 creatures. BTW, in order to link cards just do it like this: (cards)Haunting Misery(/cards). Just replace the parentheses with square brackets and it will work.
@ReAnimator: Flayer of the Hatebound is a pretty sweet option! I think it's probably better than FKZ, simply because it doesn't require a combat step. Definitely going to test that out. At that point, it's just a matter of resolving Living Death and it's GG. With all of the draw and mana production I think getting multiple thoughtseize's isn't out of the question. Unmask is an option as well, but I think unnecessary given the mana engine. I'll see...I might be leaning too much on the rituals.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
what is the ideal winning turn for this deck?
-rob
I would say turn 2. T1 could happen in the blind some amount of the time, but that wouldn't necessarily allow for Thoughtseize to clear a path. Turn 2 with 2 lands seems much easier to accomplish, otherwise I'm leaning on Lotus Petal too hard. There's a definite amount of glass cannon factor in this deck, but I feel it could also play a longer game and just wipe the board and attack with some 4/4's.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
With a fat graveyard, Empty the Pits could be an alternative instant-speed win as well.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
could you run me through a turn 2 kill, or if that's too difficult, a turn 3 kill.
-rob
Well, it's all theoretical at this point, but ideally:
T1 - swamp, thoughtseize
T2 - swamp, cycle twice
T3 - with 2-3 fast mana, cycle as much as possible into mausoleum secrets for either shadows of the grave or Songs of the Damned to build mana to continue the chain, whichever is needed to keep cycling. Build up to 5 mana from extra draws, cast Living Death with lethal attack the following turn, or if possible use an extra B to discard Flayer of the hatebound and win with 20+ damage on the spot.
I've been trying to figure out what ideal hands would look like, and without having tried it yet, I don't know. I have a sneaking suspicion this is a lot slower than I'm hoping. I might have to play the full 4 shadows of the grave and songs of the damned. It's likely the best mana and draw engine. From there, I think it gets difficult to work in protection and win conditions.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
OP updated, architects of will added to combat terminus (not sure if this will be feasible, they can terminus at instant speed still with brainstorm.) Also, it needs at least 3x shadows of the grave and songs of the damned. The pinch will be mana I think, not draw.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Shadows and Mausoleum both have decent synergy with Lion's Eye Diamond.
Also, have you considered Chrome Mox?
Any thought on adding Mogis's Marauder? Just would need a way to discard it and would give all the guys haste and intimidate.
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