RUG Hollow Vine

[bigbobbobber]

Inspired by the new hotness of Vintage, I decided to try to port it over to Legacy as best as possible. The deck I'm talking about can be found here.

At first I tried to make Fauna Shaman work, but being a creature and having to tap made it unplayable in the shell I was looking for. So I ditched the Shamans and went full on with Hollow One and Vengevine. Here's where I'm at right now:



Creatures
1 Anger
4 Basking Rootwalla
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Hollow One
2 Hooting Mandrills
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Vengevine
1 Wonder

Enchantment
2 Sylvan Library

Instant
2 Izzet Charm
3 Punishing Fire

Sorcery
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting

Planeswalker
2 Dack Fayden

Land
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island

Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Echoing Truth
3 Flusterstorm
1 Krosan Grip
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Pyroblast


In testing so far, the deck has been performing well enough. It can sometimes prove to be a little inconsistent, but not as badly as I first expected without proper blue cantrips. Graveyard hate has not been that big of an issue either, as with all of the dorks just hardcasting threats is completely realistic.

Cards I have tried and did not like: Street Wraith, Fauna Shaman, Nimble Mongoose, Search for Azcanta, Wasteland, Llanowar Mentor, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy. I have yet to try Memnite and Ornithopter, but I am skeptical they will do much good.

Maybe I just suck at Magic, but as far as I can tell, this deck cannot currently beat Turbo Depths or UB Death's Shadow. Perhaps some sideboard rearrangement is in order.

In any case, thanks for reading this far, and please let me know what you think about this deck and how to improve it. Triggering Vengevine is a riot, and an experience everyone should have.

[mistercakes]

keep in mind that squee's effectiveness in vintage is due mostly to the playset of bazaars. i think there's another thread on this but i can't recall the name.

[Gasmaskdandy]

Here's My Take -



1 Anger
1 Wonder
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Hollow One
4 Vengevine
4 Hapless Researcher
4 Bloodghast

4 Izzet Charm

4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Inquiry
1 Dread Return

4 Mox Diamond

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Cephalid Coliseum


The goal of this build is to pump out an Iona backed by a clock. Running this deck means having basically no method of interaction outside of Izzet charm. I shore this up with burning inquiry, which allows us to filter a lot and hymm an opponent for 1 red. Cephalid Coliseum is used to discard dread return, bloodghasts and iona if we've messed up late game. Mox Diamod allows for starts like mox, faithless, land (double bloodghast), burning discarding more goodstuff. Basically, we need the speed and the cost of mox diamond allows for an extra discard trigger for hollow one.

Note: This is highly untested, and is generally just me throwing ideas around. It's also 3am here and I can't sleep, so sorry if my post seems a bit disjointed.

[kinda]

Here's My Take -



1 Anger
1 Wonder
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Hollow One
4 Vengevine
4 Hapless Researcher
4 Bloodghast

4 Izzet Charm

4 Faithless Looting
4 Burning Inquiry
1 Dread Return

4 Mox Diamond

4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Taiga
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
2 Cephalid Coliseum


The goal of this build is to pump out an Iona backed by a clock. Running this deck means having basically no method of interaction outside of Izzet charm. I shore this up with burning inquiry, which allows us to filter a lot and hymm an opponent for 1 red. Cephalid Coliseum is used to discard dread return, bloodghasts and iona if we've messed up late game. Mox Diamod allows for starts like mox, faithless, land (double bloodghast), burning discarding more goodstuff. Basically, we need the speed and the cost of mox diamond allows for an extra discard trigger for hollow one.

Note: This is highly untested, and is generally just me throwing ideas around. It's also 3am here and I can't sleep, so sorry if my post seems a bit disjointed.

This looks sweet! The iona/dread return looks too inconsistent unless you add entomb. Just adding more wonders instead is my first thought or nimble mongoose.

[Man of Steel]

I am curious, what you think about the following list:
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Hollow One
4 Punishing Fire
4 Hooting Mandrils
4 Stubborn Denial
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengvine
4 Insolate Neonate
4 Mox Diamond
1 Anger

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
9 Fetch 19

[bigbobbobber]

I am curious, what you think about the following list:
4 Careful Study
4 Faithless Looting
4 Hollow One
4 Punishing Fire
4 Hooting Mandrils
4 Stubborn Denial
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Vengvine
4 Insolate Neonate
4 Mox Diamond
1 Anger

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
9 Fetch 19

I don't think that there is enough to trigger Vengevine consistently. I found in testing so far that the deck is fairly mana hungry, and wants to have the dorks to not only trigger Vengevine but also to cast all of it's spells. Not saying this list is wrong, as I haven't tested it, but that's my opinion on it.

[Deirex85]

Seems like a blast to play, love this kind of deck.

I've been playing around with different versions of Cloudvine and have often considered moving more in this direction.

[maharis]

A life from the loam to refill your hand for looting effects should also be considered if you go for Coliseum. I had a small package for a while with that + cycling lands + barb ring for reach. Doesn’t work with gravestone though so a sideboard map would be ideal

[quantumactivist]

I’ve been testing a bant version of this deck.

The other versions seem a little all-in...I wouldn’t want to be a worse dredge or reanimator and lose to all the same hate. Some survival decks ended up being g/w based even tho everyone remembers Caleb’s ug version

I’ll post my list if ppl r interested. I’ve been through a lot of the spice.


True name nemesis
Magus of the bazaar
Genesis
Champion of wits
2x wonder
Thalia
1 pridemage
Cloud of faeries

Anyways if ppl want to see I’ll take some time to post the list



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[Kaono]

Anyways if ppl want to see I’ll take some time to post the list

The answer is always yes. Post the list.

[quantumactivist]

Also ash barrens is legit with hollow one


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[bigbobbobber]

I'm interested in the Bant list as well. I like the idea of Mother of Runes protecting a Magus of the Bazaar.

[quantumactivist]

Here’s my bant list:

2 Mox Diamond
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Careful Study

4 Vengevine
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Cloud of Faeries
2 Wonder
4 Hollow One
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Hapless Researcher
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Champion of Wits
1 Magus of the Bazaar
1 Genesis
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria

2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Wasteland
1 Tundra
1 Flooded Strand
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Ash Barrens

SB
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Gilded Drake
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Palace Jailer
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Remorseful Cleric
1 Peacekeeper
3 Ground Seal
1 Sylvan Library
1 Hunting Grounds


I’m still testing the loyal retainers package vs tnn/more consistency

I’ve found that the deck needs more than 1 angle of attack as the main vine/hollow plan is a little inconsistent and vunerable to sb hate. You need to be doing unfair things in legacy :)

I’ve also tested stifle naught combo which was ok.

It’s been great playing creatures again (I play Tin fins irl)




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[quantumactivist]

FYI intuition, while one of my fav cards ever, is really slow. I’ve tested 1,2,3 copies and haven’t really liked them.


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[Plm]

Hey, love your deck

Why 2 wonder instead of the split with anger ? Do you think the manabase can support the splash ?
Hasty fauna shaman are the best ones (the same goes for magus, hollow one & co).

I will second bigbobbobber : what about a list with more magus (magi ? maguses?) and mom as protection (and you know how powerful is an angry mum).

[quantumactivist]

I think it would be really hard to cram a mountain in here. The mana base is a pile as is (trying to run cradle+colosseum+wasteland)

I think the utility lands give a lot of long game.

I’ve tried mom and found them lackluster but prob worth more testing (only tried them for a couple of games) . They were in the Mox diamond slot so I only had 2. I’d love to see others testing this as I can’t get many games in at 1 time and don’t own this irl

Getting 1 magus activation is usually insane, so I could see going up on those with more moms

Wish we had bazaar :( but only for us not dredge



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[FTW]

This deck is hot in Vintage not for raw combo power but because the top decks are all spell-based with roughly 0-1 creature removals in the deck. The Vintage build is a classic hatebears deck just using Hollow Vine as a fast kill condition to speed up the hatebears clock. It works as a turbo hatebears deck, not because the Hollow Vine combo is that strong itself.

If you port this into Legacy without porting the hatebears part into Legacy-relevant disruption, then you're just some weird aggro deck cheating out 4/4s. Legacy is a creature-heavy format full of creature removals, so that strategy is just less effective. Legacy is better prepared to kill the 4/4s. Meanwhile by taking out the hatebears you sacrifice your game against combo. The Hollow Vine "combo" just isn't that fast or broken. Has anyone tested this to any success?

The Bant list looks more interesting, at least offering other lines of attack and ways to recover.

Hollow Vine might fit well into this old BG Vengevine brew I made more than 6 years ago. It's no hatebears deck but does has some minimal disruptive elements maindeck, multiple lines of attack, and can use GSZ to dig up SB hatecards vs combo.


//Creatures: 32
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Vengevine
4 Hollow One

//Spells: 10
4 Thoughtseize
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay

//Lands: 18
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Scrubland

//Sideboard: 15
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Collective Brutality
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Choke


Replaced Deathrite Shaman with Birds (which does make the deck a lot worse), Wild Mongrel with Noose Constrictor, and cut Bloodghasts for Hollow Ones.

Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler combo (which also makes it easy to get Vengevine back)
Carrion Feeder saves recursive guys from Terminus and exile effects
Lotleth Troll/Noose Constrictor can discard 3 cards in a turn for Hollow One.
GSZ makes it 11 ways to get a discard outlet
16 1 drops for Vengevine

[quantumactivist]

Agreed that the game plan of play 4/4s (even if you get 4) is only ok in legacy.

Angler is tough to deal with

Terminus - ugh

Kommand - ugh

Deck definitely needs another angle. I’ve been testing

-Loyal retainers package
(would love some suggestions for legends that are reasonably castable Iona has been not great
Have tried gaaiv and dromoka and heretic cathar)


Kotr with more utility lands

Tnn

Stiflenaught

Fow/ daze (was bad)




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[.Ix]

Firestorm is fantastic for this deck.

[FTW]

Deck definitely needs another angle. I’ve been testing

-Loyal retainers package
(would love some suggestions for legends that are reasonably castable Iona has been not great
Have tried gaaiv and dromoka and heretic cathar)

I like Retainers, but I don't know if there's an easy answer. Anything worth cheating out with Retainers is too expensive to cast (e.g. Iona, Emrakul, Griselbrand). If it wasn't expensive it wouldn't be worth jumping through hoops to cheat it out. Heretic Cathar costs the same as Retainers... just hardcast it.

Retainers combo hasn't been viable since Survival. You really want to grab all pieces in one turn. Fauna Shaman is slow. It can come close if you EOT grab the fatty, untap and pitch the fatty for Retainers. That's turn 4 at the earliest though, and the fatty doesn't even win you the game on the spot. Emrakul is the fastest clock, but it doesn't even work with Fauna Shaman unless you wait another turn. Turn 4 Iona is strong but not that backbreaking.

What about Necrotic Ooze combo? You can get it with Buried Alive, which is also good with Vengevines. Big advantage being that you actually win on the spot.

If you haven't seen the combo:

Necrotic Ooze
Phyrexian Devourer
Walking Ballista
Griselbrand


With Devourer and Ballista in the GY, Ooze can just exile away the top of your library and ping the opponent to death. The "7 or greater" clause isn't copied by Ooze so you don't have to worry about suiciding Ooze if you flip a high CMC card.

You can assemble the combo a couple ways:
- Fauna Shaman (getting Devourer -> Ballista -> Ooze, casting Ooze)
- Buried Alive for Ooze + Devourer + Ballista, then cast Reanimate on Ooze
- Buried Alive for Devourer + Ballista + other creature, then cast Necrotic Ooze
- Buried Alive for Ballista + Lotleth Troll/Wild Mongrel + other creature, then cast Ooze (if Devourer is stuck in hand)

I threw in Griselbrand because there is no reason not to run him if you're using any kind of graveyard tutoring and Reanimate. He's also good with Ooze.