I’ve been testing a bant version of this deck.
The other versions seem a little all-in...I wouldn’t want to be a worse dredge or reanimator and lose to all the same hate. Some survival decks ended up being g/w based even tho everyone remembers Caleb’s ug version
I’ll post my list if ppl r interested. I’ve been through a lot of the spice.
True name nemesis
Magus of the bazaar
Genesis
Champion of wits
2x wonder
Thalia
1 pridemage
Cloud of faeries
Anyways if ppl want to see I’ll take some time to post the list
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also ash barrens is legit with hollow one
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm interested in the Bant list as well. I like the idea of Mother of Runes protecting a Magus of the Bazaar.
"On the other hand, I am still wondering on which basis certain people appoint themselves authorities on a matter; postcount does not equal stormcount."
- CabalTherapy
Here’s my bant list:
2 Mox Diamond
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Careful Study
4 Vengevine
4 Fauna Shaman
2 Cloud of Faeries
2 Wonder
4 Hollow One
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Hapless Researcher
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Champion of Wits
1 Magus of the Bazaar
1 Genesis
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Tropical Island
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Windswept Heath
1 Savannah
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Wasteland
1 Tundra
1 Flooded Strand
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Ash Barrens
SB
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Gilded Drake
1 Llawan, Cephalid Empress
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Palace Jailer
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Remorseful Cleric
1 Peacekeeper
3 Ground Seal
1 Sylvan Library
1 Hunting Grounds
I’m still testing the loyal retainers package vs tnn/more consistency
I’ve found that the deck needs more than 1 angle of attack as the main vine/hollow plan is a little inconsistent and vunerable to sb hate. You need to be doing unfair things in legacy :)
I’ve also tested stifle naught combo which was ok.
It’s been great playing creatures again (I play Tin fins irl)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
FYI intuition, while one of my fav cards ever, is really slow. I’ve tested 1,2,3 copies and haven’t really liked them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey, love your deck
Why 2 wonder instead of the split with anger ? Do you think the manabase can support the splash ?
Hasty fauna shaman are the best ones (the same goes for magus, hollow one & co).
I will second bigbobbobber : what about a list with more magus (magi ? maguses?) and mom as protection (and you know how powerful is an angry mum).
I think it would be really hard to cram a mountain in here. The mana base is a pile as is (trying to run cradle+colosseum+wasteland)
I think the utility lands give a lot of long game.
I’ve tried mom and found them lackluster but prob worth more testing (only tried them for a couple of games) . They were in the Mox diamond slot so I only had 2. I’d love to see others testing this as I can’t get many games in at 1 time and don’t own this irl
Getting 1 magus activation is usually insane, so I could see going up on those with more moms
Wish we had bazaar :( but only for us not dredge
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
This deck is hot in Vintage not for raw combo power but because the top decks are all spell-based with roughly 0-1 creature removals in the deck. The Vintage build is a classic hatebears deck just using Hollow Vine as a fast kill condition to speed up the hatebears clock. It works as a turbo hatebears deck, not because the Hollow Vine combo is that strong itself.
If you port this into Legacy without porting the hatebears part into Legacy-relevant disruption, then you're just some weird aggro deck cheating out 4/4s. Legacy is a creature-heavy format full of creature removals, so that strategy is just less effective. Legacy is better prepared to kill the 4/4s. Meanwhile by taking out the hatebears you sacrifice your game against combo. The Hollow Vine "combo" just isn't that fast or broken. Has anyone tested this to any success?
The Bant list looks more interesting, at least offering other lines of attack and ways to recover.
Hollow Vine might fit well into this old BG Vengevine brew I made more than 6 years ago. It's no hatebears deck but does has some minimal disruptive elements maindeck, multiple lines of attack, and can use GSZ to dig up SB hatecards vs combo.
//Creatures: 32
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Basking Rootwalla
4 Carrion Feeder
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Noose Constrictor
4 Vengevine
4 Hollow One
//Spells: 10
4 Thoughtseize
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Abrupt Decay
//Lands: 18
4 Bayou
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
2 Forest
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Scrubland
//Sideboard: 15
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Collective Brutality
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Knight of Autumn
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
3 Choke
Replaced Deathrite Shaman with Birds (which does make the deck a lot worse), Wild Mongrel with Noose Constrictor, and cut Bloodghasts for Hollow Ones.
Carrion Feeder + Gravecrawler combo (which also makes it easy to get Vengevine back)
Carrion Feeder saves recursive guys from Terminus and exile effects
Lotleth Troll/Noose Constrictor can discard 3 cards in a turn for Hollow One.
GSZ makes it 11 ways to get a discard outlet
16 1 drops for Vengevine
Agreed that the game plan of play 4/4s (even if you get 4) is only ok in legacy.
Angler is tough to deal with
Terminus - ugh
Kommand - ugh
Deck definitely needs another angle. I’ve been testing
-Loyal retainers package
(would love some suggestions for legends that are reasonably castable Iona has been not great
Have tried gaaiv and dromoka and heretic cathar)
Kotr with more utility lands
Tnn
Stiflenaught
Fow/ daze (was bad)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like Retainers, but I don't know if there's an easy answer. Anything worth cheating out with Retainers is too expensive to cast (e.g. Iona, Emrakul, Griselbrand). If it wasn't expensive it wouldn't be worth jumping through hoops to cheat it out. Heretic Cathar costs the same as Retainers... just hardcast it.
Retainers combo hasn't been viable since Survival. You really want to grab all pieces in one turn. Fauna Shaman is slow. It can come close if you EOT grab the fatty, untap and pitch the fatty for Retainers. That's turn 4 at the earliest though, and the fatty doesn't even win you the game on the spot. Emrakul is the fastest clock, but it doesn't even work with Fauna Shaman unless you wait another turn. Turn 4 Iona is strong but not that backbreaking.
What about Necrotic Ooze combo? You can get it with Buried Alive, which is also good with Vengevines. Big advantage being that you actually win on the spot.
If you haven't seen the combo:
Necrotic Ooze
Phyrexian Devourer
Walking Ballista
Griselbrand
With Devourer and Ballista in the GY, Ooze can just exile away the top of your library and ping the opponent to death. The "7 or greater" clause isn't copied by Ooze so you don't have to worry about suiciding Ooze if you flip a high CMC card.
You can assemble the combo a couple ways:
- Fauna Shaman (getting Devourer -> Ballista -> Ooze, casting Ooze)
- Buried Alive for Ooze + Devourer + Ballista, then cast Reanimate on Ooze
- Buried Alive for Devourer + Ballista + other creature, then cast Necrotic Ooze
- Buried Alive for Ballista + Lotleth Troll/Wild Mongrel + other creature, then cast Ooze (if Devourer is stuck in hand)
I threw in Griselbrand because there is no reason not to run him if you're using any kind of graveyard tutoring and Reanimate. He's also good with Ooze.
Last edited by FTW; 11-16-2018 at 01:03 PM.
I will test firestorm. So far, Punishing Fire has been awesome. Card advantage with looting effects and removal suits the gameplan quite well here.
I've been testing a more midrange version with more Squee and Dack Fayden. Not sure how to compare it to an aggro version however; they play like two completely different decks.
"On the other hand, I am still wondering on which basis certain people appoint themselves authorities on a matter; postcount does not equal stormcount."
- CabalTherapy
Why not lean into the sacrifice theme and take a page from Nic Fit?
4x Veteran Explorer
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Bloodghast
4x Vengevine
4x Hollow One
4x Magus of the Bazaar
4x Careful Study
4x Forget? Attunement? dunno.
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
3x Collective Brutality
2x Sultai Charm
4x Brainstorm
18ish lands?
Needs something to do when it has lots of mana, maybe Breakthrough? Or Probe? Or Hymn? Could probably run B2B in here with a manabase focused on fetches+basics and a Coliseum or two. Maybe you want to throw a Shardless Agent or Phyrexian Tower in there?
EDIT: Chart a Course and Deep Analysis.. knew I was forgetting something.
Ok, how about this for a list:
4x Basking Rootwalla
4x Vengevine
4x Hollow One
4x Bloodghast
4x Careful Study
4x Chart a Course
4x Deep Analysis
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Thoughtseize
3x Collective Brutality
3x Sultai Charm
3x Assassin's Trophy
3x Cephalid Coliseum
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
2x Polluted Delta
3x Forest
2x Island
2x Swamp
Sideboard:
3x Back to Basics
4x Force of Will
4x Leyline of the Void
2x True Name Nemesis/Liliana of the Veil
2x Engineered Explosives
Last edited by morgan_coke; 11-22-2018 at 02:21 PM.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)