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Thread: Nourishing Lich 2K18

  1. #1

    Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Saffron Olive recently (July 2018 recently) did a deck tech on everyone's favourite 3 card combo 'Nourishing Lich' as it did well in some event (video/list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...ng-lich-legacy). If you've joined the source within the last 7 years and aren't familiar with the combo, you get nefarious lich into play which draws you cards when you gain life. So pitching autochthon wurm to nourishing shoal draws you 15 cards then you win by pitching these to sickening dreams (you remove the cards you just pitched per the clause on lich...tendrils could deck you due to the life gain). Similarly, zuran orb gets you two cards per land.

    The old nourishing lich thread is locked but it features some good critical analysis on cards/lines you might want to review before playing the deck. There is also an interesting discussion on who invented the deck...either 'derflippi' whose list saffron olive did the deck tech on (cma-flippi on here I think?) or 'cavius the great'. http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...diabolic+tutor . Not sure who to give credit to but one of them. Entertaining article on the deck by flippi: https://www.magic-league.com/article...tour_2007.html .

    #freeCaviustheGreat

    Anyway, the deck tech got me interested in running this. My foil nefarious lich's arrived in the mail so I'll be running this on Tuesday ...wish me luck. I don't have academy rector though or grim tutor so the list will be well modified. I was trying out sylvan library/shocklands plus children of corlis to draw cards with lich or just enlightened tutor.


    3 Academy Rector
    4 Autochthon Wurm
    3 Lotus Petal
    1 Mox Diamond
    3 Zuran Orb
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Nourishing Shoal
    1 Soul Spike
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Grim Tutor
    2 Sickening Dreams
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    4 Thoughtseize
    4 Nefarious Lich
    1 Overgrown Estate
    1 Sandwurm Convergence
    1 Bayou
    1 Godless Shrine
    4 Marsh Flats
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    3 Scrubland
    5 Swamp
    1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    2 Verdant Catacombs

    SB:
    2 Ashen Rider
    2 Darkblast
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Form of the Dragon
    2 Ground Seal
    2 Massacre
    1 Pestilence
    1 Sanguine Bond
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Yavimaya's Embrace
    Last edited by kinda; 09-23-2018 at 08:09 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  2. #2
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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    I think there's a green sorcery that returns all lands from graveyard to play tapped. Dunno if that's good here, you could also consider clear the land, but there's always a chance you'll Exile your win condition.
    -rob

  3. #3

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    I think there's a green sorcery that returns all lands from graveyard to play tapped. Dunno if that's good here, you could also consider clear the land, but there's always a chance you'll Exile your win condition.
    Clear the land is interesting. I've been considering running the combo out of the sb in reanimator too. The modern reanimator deck runs nourishing shoal so something like that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  4. #4

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    So...attempt number 1 with nourishing lich wasn't great. Drew vs nic fit and lost to grixis delver, partriot delver, and bug leovold. I replaced the rectors/grim tutors I don't have with veteran explorer and a gsz package. Explorer does work great with nourishing lich plus Zuran Orb...but not so great if you decide to run 2 basic forests plus dryad arbor in your deck trying to play a bbbb enchantment. Oh well...need to tweak for next time .



    3 swamp
    2 forest
    3 verdant catacombs
    3 Llanowar wastes
    4 windswept heath
    1 marsh flats
    1 phyrexian tower
    2 overgrown tomb
    4 lotus petal
    1 dark ritual

    4 nourishing shoal
    4 nefarious lich
    2 Zuran Orb
    2 autochthon wurm
    2 Sickening Dreams
    1 worldspine wurm
    1 progenitus
    1 terrastodon
    3 Natural order
    1 diabolic intent
    4 veteran explorer
    1 kalonian hydra
    1 champion of rhonas
    1 dryad arbor
    4 cabal therapy
    1 collective brutality
    3 green Sun's Zenith
    2 sylvan library

    SB:
    4 Leyline of the Void
    3 thoughtseize
    3 abrupt decay
    2 xantid swarm
    1 wreck sage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 carpet of flowers
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  5. #5
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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Haha great someone is really toying with this deck after...12 years?

    I think most if the deck from thensis still the best take on Lich.

    Do not think derflippi is active here anymore, but I see him this sunday...maybe he has some weird new ideas. Ah and I am Jens Jaeger btw, co creator of the deck long time ago . Maybe it is time to work on it again? :-D

  6. #6
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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    How do people still even remember Cavius?

    I guess SaffronOlive doesn't remember that far back. He referred to this as innovative new tech, not an ancient combo deck that was too slow and inconsistent for Legacy even 12 years ago. Surprised nobody jumped on arguing they were the first in the world to invent this.

    I will admit Yavimaya's Embrace is hilarious tech. Olive missed the point. It's not just a Rector target to steal creatures, but it also trumps Show and Tell and gains you 8 life off Nourishing Shoal. This might be the only deck in any format (even EDH) that actually makes good use of that card. I would sponsor someone to play this deck just to watch a SnT opponent utterly baffled when they pay 2U to give you a 17/17 Emrakul or 9/9 trample Griselbrand, in spite of their FoW with Spell Pierce backup.

    In game 1 you could also drop Lich off SnT, then EOT draw 30 cards and win when you untap. This deck must have a hilarious SnT matchup.

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    So...attempt number 1 with nourishing lich wasn't great.

    ... I replaced the rectors/grim tutors I don't have with veteran explorer and a gsz package. ... decide to run 2 basic forests plus dryad arbor in your deck trying to play a bbbb enchantment.
    Probably because you ran a completely different deck.

    Without Rector or Dark Ritual, the only way to get Lich on the battlefield is to naturally draw one and tap 4 Swamps. In a deck ramping out basic Forests. Seems bad. The BBBB enchantment is much easier to cast in the Deck Tech build. When Cavius brewed some bad Lich builds, they at least had both Nefarious Lich and Lich for increased consistency. Otherwise you need other ways to find a Lich.

    The Explorer + GSZ package doesn't replace Rector or help get Lich on the battlefield. It ramps you, but then you still have to naturally draw and cast threats.

    Natural Order + Rhonas doesn't help the Lich plan either. They just cheat out fatties. But you don't actually want Autochthon Wurm on the battlefield, because the card is pure garbage, so you're stuck running more green creatures that are better threats but less good with Shoal (better Natural Orders but higher fizzle rate with Lich combo).

    Natural Order gives you a plan B but also makes half the cards in your deck dead cards (Nourishing Shoal, Nefarious Lich, Sickening Dreams, Autochthon Wurm, Zuran Orb). The trick with Nefarious Lich is most of the deck is an unplayable chunderbucket pile of garbage unless you manage to assemble the Magical Christmasland 3-card combo, so you might as well just go all-in on the combo or drop the combo to be a better Natural Order deck. If you try for any kind of plan B, you're playing each game as though you mulliganned to 4 on the play with a fair deck because of how many dead draws you'll get.

  7. #7

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    How do people still even remember Cavius?
    I will admit Yavimaya's Embrace is hilarious tech. Olive missed the point. It's not just a Rector target to steal creatures, but it also trumps Show and Tell and gains you 8 life off Nourishing Shoal. This might be the only deck in any format (even EDH) that actually makes good use of that card. I would sponsor someone to play this deck just to watch a SnT opponent utterly baffled when they pay 2U to give you a 17/17 Emrakul or 9/9 trample Griselbrand, in spite of their FoW with Spell Pierce backup.
    This doesn't actually work, if your opponent plays show and tell and puts in a fatty and you put in Control Magic, you have to enchant something other than the fatty they just put in because you can't attach an aura to something that entered the battlefield at the same time as it

  8. #8

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    This doesn't actually work, if your opponent plays show and tell and puts in a fatty and you put in Control Magic, you have to enchant something other than the fatty they just put in because you can't attach an aura to something that entered the battlefield at the same time as it
    True but it works with rector and emrakuls sac trigger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  9. #9

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    True but it works with rector and emrakuls sac trigger.
    Lol that's pretty sick
    Do SNT players even attack into Rector with Emrakul

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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    This doesn't actually work, if your opponent plays show and tell and puts in a fatty and you put in Control Magic, you have to enchant something other than the fatty they just put in because you can't attach an aura to something that entered the battlefield at the same time as it
    Oh strange. It does work with cards like Warp World, where the Aura can target other things entering the battlefield simultaneously. Anyway, you could choose Rector and sacrifice it to Phyrexian Tower or Cabal Therapy or Annihilator to get an uncounterable Yavimaya's Embrace.

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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    is there something about rector putting an enchantment card into play that enables yavimaya's embrace to "target" emrakul?

  12. #12
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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Oh strange. It does work with cards like Warp World, where the Aura can target other things entering the battlefield simultaneously.
    Warp World has a pause between artifact, creature, and land cards before enchantment cards specifically so Auras have things to target.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by non-inflammable View Post
    is there something about rector putting an enchantment card into play that enables yavimaya's embrace to "target" emrakul?

    Nothing special. It's no different from how Oblivion Ring or Gilded Drake or Palace Jailer can "target" Emrakul. Those are abilities. Emrakul only has protection from spells. Rector putting a card into play isn't casting a spell.

  14. #14

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Anyone got a list without rector?
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Anyone got a list without rector?
    Losing Rector hurts. It gives the deck so much more consistency and flexibility. Without Rector you probably want blue cantrips or Enlightened Tutor, maybe both.

    Cavius used to push a blue cantrip build. In today's meta it would be something like this:


    //Lands: 17
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Scrubland
    3 Swamp
    1 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Flooded Strand

    //Fast Mana: 9
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Chrome Mox

    //Combo: 16
    4 Nefarious Lich
    4 Nourishing Shoal
    4 Autochthon Wurm
    2 Zuran Orb
    1 Sickening Dreams
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    //Dig: 10
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Enlightened Tutor

    //Disruption: 8
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Duress
    2 Collective Brutality

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Defense Grid
    2 Massacre
    2 Darkblast
    1 Sandwurm Convergence
    2 Ashen Rider

  16. #16

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Losing Rector hurts. It gives the deck so much more consistency and flexibility. Without Rector you probably want blue cantrips or Enlightened Tutor, maybe both.

    Cavius used to push a blue cantrip build. In today's meta it would be something like this:


    //Lands: 17
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Scrubland
    3 Swamp
    1 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Marsh Flats
    2 Flooded Strand

    //Fast Mana: 9
    4 Lotus Petal
    4 Dark Ritual
    1 Chrome Mox

    //Combo: 16
    4 Nefarious Lich
    4 Nourishing Shoal
    4 Autochthon Wurm
    2 Zuran Orb
    1 Sickening Dreams
    1 Tendrils of Agony

    //Dig: 10
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Enlightened Tutor

    //Disruption: 8
    4 Thoughtseize
    2 Duress
    2 Collective Brutality

    //Sideboard: 15
    1 Enlightened Tutor
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Defense Grid
    2 Massacre
    2 Darkblast
    1 Sandwurm Convergence
    2 Ashen Rider
    I'm morally opposed to cantrips. What else ya got?
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I'm morally opposed to cantrips. What else ya got?

    //Lands:
    20 Mountains

    //Spells:
    40 Lightning Bolt

  18. #18

    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post

    //Lands:
    20 Mountains

    //Spells:
    40 Lightning Bolt
    Methinks resolving Lightning bolt 5 will be difficult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  19. #19
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    Re: Nourishing Lich 2K18

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Methinks resolving Lightning bolt 5 will be difficult.
    This deck does a pretty good job of it:
    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...imer-Deck-Burn

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