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Thread: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

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    Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Hi all, just wondering if anybody had thoughts one way or another about Gerry Thompson sitting out Worlds to protest WOTC/professional magic.

    EDIT: In the spirit of trying to be objective I completely missed the boat, lol. I admire Gerry for what he did, and it had a real cost.
    EDIT: This seems like a pretty steep cost to me, something I would likely have a hard time doing. Credit to Gerry for having the courage to do so.

    Some have mentioned that he's just doing it for personal gain, and to a small extent he is (he's a pro magic player.) Overall, I think it's a positive statement, but I've seen some vitriol over it as well (just trying to get media attention for his own gain.)

    Thoughts? Will it bring attention to potential change? Will it flounder?

    Link: http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2018/09/23/p...-the-pro-scene
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 09-24-2018 at 03:53 PM.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Hi all, just wondering if anybody had thoughts one way or another about Gerry Thompson sitting out Worlds to protest WOTC/professional magic.
    I don't see anything wrong with what he did or what he said. He is free to express his views, which he did. He is free to attend, or not attend, at his own discretion. I haven't seen (not that I have hunted hard, because honestly it doesn't effect me) any refutation of the facts he presented. It's also been a rather "well known fact" that Organized Play is a bit of a joke, there have been numerous articles and other things written that I can't find off the top of my head right now, so his post didn't surprise me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    It seems interesting, with several potential benefits for him that might offset the missed chance at winning worlds:
    1) Media attention, which can help support his projects
    2) A generalized social-justice-warrior support from a dedicated group of magic pros, especially on social media

    Alternatively, he didn't get a chance to play Worlds after earning a spot there (which isn't easy.)
    So, is the implication of point 1 that he is doing this then for his own benefit?

    I mean, of course he is, he is a Profession Magic Player. He wants to see changes to Professional Magic. Does it give him added exposure, to make a "grand" and public sacrifice? Of course it does, that's why he did it. Would you have listened at all, had he not put his money where his mouth is?

    I'm not at all sure where you are trying to go with point 2. Again, Gerry is a Profession Magic Player, so him "speaking" for Profession Magic Players isn't any different than if he was a McDonald's worker, detailing why and how he feels the company and his job could be improved. What's wrong with that? Should he just not give a shit at all and walk away (like numerous other "Pros" have)? Would that be better? How so? Why is his criticism to be seen as a bad thing? Why resort to the straw-man of simply labeling his concerns "social-justice-warrior"ing, which I can't imagine is any less than an attempt to dismiss his assertions?

    You get a job. You enjoy your job, but it's not perfect. You come up with ways to make your job better. You tell people about how you think it could be better and amplify your message with a sacrifice. Get called a "social-justice-warrior" (whatever that is supposed to imply) and dismissed? Again, what you rather he had done? Shut up and quit? How does that make Magic any better? How does that make Gerry any better?

    I am genuinely curious about the critique here, because I don't follow...
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds


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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I am genuinely curious about the critique here, because I don't follow...
    It wasn't meant to be a critique at all, actually, just a way to open up discussion. I was afraid I would come across as too much in favor of it and not be objective enough. I actually admire what he did. It definitely took courage, and there was a definite cost to him, a cost most of us wouldn't be willing to pay (at least I would be hard pressed to pay it.)

    Sorry it was misleading. I'll edit the OP.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    It wasn't meant to be a critique at all, actually, just a way to open up discussion. I was afraid I would come across as too much in favor of it and not be objective enough. I actually admire what he did. It definitely took courage, and there was a definite cost to him, a cost most of us wouldn't be willing to pay (at least I would be hard pressed to pay it.)

    Sorry it was misleading. I'll edit the OP.
    It's all good. I clearly didn't understand the tone, which was no doubt partially my fault. Probably was a knee-jerk reaction on my part because of the general default position (too often, by my estimation) of using the term "social-justice-warrior" as a pejorative. Not to mention, it isn't as if Gerry is even after "social justice," he is actually after what he considers "fair wages."
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Agreed.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Guy is fucking cooked if he thinks WotC will do anything beyond token gestures.

    Magic broadcasting is about marketing the product; it's not a marketable product itself. The game, while fun to play, is pretty shitty to watch for all but the most invested players. While Wizards could certainly improve coverage, even professional media groups, like MTV and ESPN, failed to make Magic watchable to the general public. And one of the lowest priorities in terms of making Magic a better viewing experience is better compensation for a bunch of generic nerds devoid of style or personality (to be fair, Magic as a game doesn't allow for much of any unique traits to shine through and the current social climate is pretty stifling towards individuals).

    And what would WotC get for having better paid pros? That they would be all smiles on a Twitch stream that pulls five percent of some guy streaming whatever flavor of the month shit-shooter from his parent's basement? Seems like a lot of money for not a lot of tangible return. I can bullshit pretty well, but there's no fucking way I could pitch this sort of expense to Hasbro suits. Especially the same suits cutting corners at every turn in making the actual product.

    There's not even a whole lot of low-hanging fruit here in his complaints or suggestions for improvement.

    Managing the pro-circuit, and organized play in general, seems to be beyond the replacement (if there even was one) for Helene Bergerot. I can understand getting miffed about not knowing when your schedule is, or payouts being uncertain, but that's a reality for most of the working world. Your shifts get changed, your company switches up benefits, etc. Be glad you're playing a card game, not doing real labor.

    Promoting the players a la SCG isn't going to be a winner either; I know I stopped giving a shit about their broadcasts when they would show off grinders in the feature matches instead of cool decks. I want to see Painter, Post, and whatnot...not some dude with Grinder Delver going for Barnacle of the Year. I don't have any serious data, but I'd assume most viewers would be in agreement.

    And a unilateral protest seem pretty dumb decades upon decades after the idea of organized labor and collective bargaining have been around. Well, unless you're just gunning for publicity and more patreon bux. He's probably gonna do just fine on that front.

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    SCG also has a history of promoting players who are later suspended for cheating. A lot of them. Not their fault of course, but doesnt make it an enticing proposition for others.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    So basically what he's saying is "WotC should hire me to play their game for them"..? Or "I've proven to be very good at the game, therefor I deserve to get paid to play it"..?

    I'm just going off the Kotaku piece here, but this seems very selfindulgent to me. No one forces him to play MtG, he's free to get an actual job. I'd love to play (video)games day in, day out for a living but I hardly expect anyone to want to pay me for it.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    So basically what he's saying is "WotC should hire me to play their game for them"..? Or "I've proven to be very good at the game, therefor I deserve to get paid to play it"..?

    I'm just going off the Kotaku piece here, but this seems very selfindulgent to me. No one forces him to play MtG, he's free to get an actual job. I'd love to play (video)games day in, day out for a living but I hardly expect anyone to want to pay me for it.
    He threw away +$12,500 EV just from not playing in worlds so his primary concern clearly isn't just "give me more money", this characterization of the situation is missing the point.
    There is so much wizards could be doing to improve the situation for players without necessarily spending a bunch of money, just by being more organized and making better decisions.
    The reddit post goes more in depth than the Kotaku article

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    He threw away +$12,500 EV just from not playing in worlds so his primary concern clearly isn't just "give me more money", this characterization of the situation is missing the point.
    There is so much wizards could be doing to improve the situation for players without necessarily spending a bunch of money, just by being more organized and making better decisions.
    The reddit post goes more in depth than the Kotaku article
    Yes, I think he's really just calling for a better organized system with more incentive, or even less disincentive, to be a pro player.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    There's a lot we don't see, nor hear, about how magic is being run and what the considerations are. Companies cannot be completely transparent, especially in a game that has a community as vocal, emotional and opinionated as Magic. I'm not sure if I agree with the way Gerry Thompson made his point, it's a rather negative approach, but his intent is good. He wants Magic to be able to compete with games like Poker or Hearthstone, that it is taken serious.

    Maybe Magic should learn from Nike and somehow use Gerry Thompson's deviant Kaepernick-style move to its advantage in its marketing and social media campaigns and show that they care about the voice of the community.

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    There's a lot we don't see, nor hear, about how magic is being run and what the considerations are. Companies cannot be completely transparent, especially in a game that has a community as vocal, emotional and opinionated as Magic. I'm not sure if I agree with the way Gerry Thompson made his point, it's a rather negative approach, but his intent is good. He wants Magic to be able to compete with games like Poker or Hearthstone, that it is taken serious.

    Maybe Magic should learn from Nike and somehow use Gerry Thompson's deviant Kaepernick-style move to its advantage in its marketing and social media campaigns and show that they care about the voice of the community.
    I assume he was just frustrated enough by the complacency of WOTC that he was willing to go this far to make sure his message was heard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Di View Post
    Here I was hoping someone would mention Kaepernick and follow up by suggesting Gerry attend, but take a knee during the player meeting or something.
    I think they banned him from the venue after he told them what he was doing.

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    So basically what he's saying is "WotC should hire me to play their game for them"..? Or "I've proven to be very good at the game, therefor I deserve to get paid to play it"..?

    I'm just going off the Kotaku piece here, but this seems very self-indulgent to me. No one forces him to play MtG, he's free to get an actual job. I'd love to play (video) games day in, day out for a living but I hardly expect anyone to want to pay me for it.
    This more than a million times over.

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    You really only have two ways to justify paying somebody more money.

    1) advertising. (mtg is poor at this.) Paying more money to "pros" is very unlikely to make it more interesting and generate more eyeballs.

    2) sells more product (not very likely that I'll be spending more money because the pros get more).

    If he can make a case for either of those then he might have something to stand on.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    This more than a million times over.
    This sounds like you people only understand one motive to human actions: personal gain.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopo View Post
    This sounds like you people only understand one motive to human actions: personal gain.
    Unfortunately personal gain is the ulterior motive for most that claim to act on another. Such is the curse of mankind.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Unfortunately personal gain is the ulterior motive for most that claim to act on another. Such is the curse of mankind.
    So mentioning that is about as relevant as stating that Gerry did that to get laid or to metabolize.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopo View Post
    So mentioning that is about as relevant as stating that Gerry did that to get laid or to metabolize.
    I disagree. Acting out and trying to cause an uproar in an attempt to change a system for purely selfish reasons isn't something I can get behind in this specific context.
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    This more than a million times over.
    playing the game on tournaments is not just playing the game. its playing the game to win prices and make a profit when your are good at it. so that argument falls flat. especially since attending tournaments costs a lot with travel cost etc. and the grind for points behind it.
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