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Thread: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

  1. #21
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    There is some solid gold chuddery going on in this thread. He says

    Wizards of the Coast (WotC) does not pay professional players a living wage. This, in and of itself, is not a requirement. However, if the goal is to sell the dream of playing on the Pro Tour, there should be something in place to make that worth achieving. Between qualifying becoming more and more difficult, especially with the goal posts continually changing, and the lack of reward at the top, the message currently being sent is “don’t waste your time.”
    It's even not even buried in his post, it's literally the first sentence you read when you read his reddit post.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  2. #22
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    playing the game on tournaments is not just playing the game. its playing the game to win prices and make a profit when your are good at it. so that argument falls flat. especially since attending tournaments costs a lot with travel cost etc. and the grind for points behind it.
    You'd imagine that at some point he'd weigh the pros and cons of being a MtG "pro" vs. having a normal job and figure "Why bother". No one forces him to travel from tournament to tournament, so what's keeping him? It's not that WotC holds a gun to his head whilst saying "You shall travel from tournament to tournament or else your hamster gets to sleep with the fishes". He decides he wants to be an MtG pro and apparently that means WotC'd have to pay him to be one.

    @CptHaddock: "This in and of itself isn't a requirement", and the rest of the post boils down to "but they should and while we're at it everyone playing MtG should know who I am".

    I'm sure he's a perfectly nice guy and I have nothing against him, I just don't agree with him on this point.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  3. #23
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    You'd imagine that at some point he'd weigh the pros and cons of being a MtG "pro" vs. having a normal job and figure "Why bother". No one forces him to travel from tournament to tournament, so what's keeping him? It's not that WotC holds a gun to his head whilst saying "You shall travel from tournament to tournament or else your hamster gets to sleep with the fishes". He decides he wants to be an MtG pro and apparently that means WotC'd have to pay him to be one.
    He literally does this in the third and fourth sentence literally quoted by CptHaddock above:

    However, if the goal is to sell the dream of playing on the Pro Tour, there should be something in place to make that worth achieving. Between qualifying becoming more and more difficult, especially with the goal posts continually changing, and the lack of reward at the top, the message currently being sent is “don’t waste your time.”
    Man, the reading comprehension on display here is at an all-time low, even for this site.

    His point is that Wizards desires there to be "Pro Players" but fails to deliver pay that in Gerry's opinion justifies the effort. The point isn't just "pay me more" the point is that in Gerry's opinion, if Wizards desires Pro Players to stick with the game, it'd probably be wise to make the incentive greater. He's probably right. And Wizards won't do anything, because why pay people more if you don't have to? Until more people see things Gerry's way and then they can't get Pro Players at "bargain prices." And then if they still want "Pro Players" they'll have to pay more. Gerry is engaging in persuasive argument to advocate for what he feels is "fair wages." What is wrong with that?
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  4. #24
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Knee jerk Sourcers going to source.

    Seriously people read. Just read, as opposed to having blow hard reactions to things you are not comprehending and misrepresenting. You are making yourselves look foolish.

  5. #25

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Unfortunately personal gain is the ulterior motive for most that claim to act on another. Such is the curse of mankind.


  6. #26
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
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  7. #27

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by ReAnimator View Post
    ...
    Seriously people read. Just read, as opposed to having blow hard reactions to things you are not comprehending and misrepresenting. You are making yourselves look foolish.
    It seems like there are a bunch of people who are saying "Gerry T is right to be unhappy" and a bunch of other people who say "if he's so unhappy, why doesn't he just do something else?" that are basically talking past each other without disagreeing all that much.

  8. #28
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    It seems like there are a bunch of people who are saying "Gerry T is right to be unhappy" and a bunch of other people who say "if he's so unhappy, why doesn't he just do something else?" that are basically talking past each other without disagreeing all that much.
    He did decide to do something else: he didn't attend the event he was qualified for and instead made a Reddit post.

    And the people saying "why doesn't he just do something else?" miss the point of him trying to change the work environment. Of course he can just quit, but that doesn't help him or anyone else do the job, or make the job better. Why is it so bad that he wants to make Professional Magic better? Because he would benefit from it? Of course he would, that's why he wants to change it because he wants to do the job, just wants to feel fairly compensated.

    If you had ideas to make your current job better, would you just quit? Or would you try telling your employer that you think there is a better way to do things? It's a bit sad that Gerry felt he had to sacrifice attending the event to be heard, but that doesn't mean he is wrong in what he points out.
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  9. #29

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    He did decide to do something else: he didn't attend the event he was qualified for and instead made a Reddit post.

    And the people saying "why doesn't he just do something else?" miss the point of him trying to change the work environment. Of course he can just quit, but that doesn't help him or anyone else do the job, or make the job better. Why is it so bad that he wants to make Professional Magic better? Because he would benefit from it? Of course he would, that's why he wants to change it because he wants to do the job, just wants to feel fairly compensated.

    If you had ideas to make your current job better, would you just quit? Or would you try telling your employer that you think there is a better way to do things? It's a bit sad that Gerry felt he had to sacrifice attending the event to be heard, but that doesn't mean he is wrong in what he points out.
    How are your posts in the other thread so bad but here you're 100% on the mark

  10. #30

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    ...
    If you had ideas to make your current job better, would you just quit? Or would you try telling your employer that you think there is a better way to do things? It's a bit sad that Gerry felt he had to sacrifice attending the event to be heard, but that doesn't mean he is wrong in what he points out.
    If I wanted more money and the employer refused, I might. A big shortcoming of the rant is that it doesn't give WotC any incentive to do what Gerry wants or illustrate how the community would benefit. Really, this business of pulling out at the last minute to get attention illustrates precisely why it's not in WotC's interest to excessively promote players.

  11. #31

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    playing the game on tournaments is not just playing the game. its playing the game to win prices and make a profit when your are good at it. so that argument falls flat. especially since attending tournaments costs a lot with travel cost etc. and the grind for points behind it.
    No, it doesn't "fall flat."

    Choosing to drop your personal responsibilities and play "Magic: the Gathering" as a profession (using that term very loosely within the context of all this, because there is no such thing as a "professional" Magic player) doesn't make you all of the sudden someone who is entitled to receiving steady pay or incentives from another entity without contract - because you opt to make the choice to play Magic cards. No one is forcing your hand to do it. These players are not being paid at-will; they've made a conscious decision to play Magic: the Gathering tournaments full-time, travel to events and play in them on their own dime, and they should, as such, finance their own trips to these events. Call it whatever you want: it's as close to gambling as there is.

    This is the ambiguous area that people just don't get: Magic is not a game where you're going to make a serious profit playing it, regardless of who you are. These people possibly have secondary jobs or other means of income that ensure they can support themselves, but make no mistake: no one is opening a door and escorting them into a Top 8 of a given event by rolling out the red carpet so they can pay their bills or finance their next trip. That's a very dangerous situation for anyone aspiring to be a professional in any endeavor to be in, and in fact, is completely reckless. It's the same thing essentially that befalls regular poker players: they could literally just quit their 9-5 and call themselves a "professional" poker player, when there's really nothing anyone can say about it because, well, that's what they say they are and that's that.

    But it isn't, because a steady source of income is no guarantee.

    The ambiguous dissemination of this is what defines a Magic player and someone with a regular, full-time job as being classified as a "professional." The major difference is that there are no guarantees you're coming home with a paycheck being the former of the two. Just because you're good at something doesn't mean you're entitled to whatever you want from whomever you want.

    Unless - such as in this case - you feel like the world owes you a living because you opt to play Magic cards as opposed to going out and getting a real job.

  12. #32
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    If I wanted more money and the employer refused, I might. A big shortcoming of the rant is that it doesn't give WotC any incentive to do what Gerry wants or illustrate how the community would benefit. Really, this business of pulling out at the last minute to get attention illustrates precisely why it's not in WotC's interest to excessively promote players.
    It's the same argument for 'why kneel during the anthem? It just makes them hate you.' Protests accomplish one specific goal: drawing attention to a specific issue. When someone protests, at their own personal expense, it can be a powerful statement. If there isn't any cost it can be trivialized, even ignored. When the cost is significant it gets attention. If there was no personal cost it would have been seen as grandstanding or whining, not a real protest. No pain, no gain.

    Why did he do it at the last minute? Because it had maximum effect. Worlds would have to carry on with only 23 players (he specifically states this) and people would have to ask 'why?'
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Keller View Post
    Unless - such as in this case - you feel like the world owes you a living because you opt to play Magic cards as opposed to going out and getting a real job.
    What if WOTC is unfairly taking advantage of promoting 'pro players'? Those pro players garner support from the community and give free publicity to WOTC. It's not outrageous for them to make it somewhat more palatable for the pros to be motivated to be pros. I'm not saying a living wage, but for fuck's sake, SOMETHING. I think Gerry would be happy with fewer disincentives than with having more incentives (like making qualifying last longer than it currently does.) Just an example, what if after someone qualifies for the pro tour they don't have to continually qualify each year but it instead lasts for 2 years, or even more. That at least takes the pressure of grinding tournaments off their shoulders and allows them to pick and choose (reducing costs) which tournaments they attend. Hell, that doesn't cost WOTC a penny.
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  14. #34

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    The podcast with Gerry and Cedric (uploaded last 1-2 days) also goes into a lot of detail if you want an additional explanation of his thoughts

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Do you have a link?
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  16. #36

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Do you have a link?
    https://soundcloud.com/thecedricphillipspodcast/mtg-926

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Thanks.
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  18. #38
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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Thing is that pro players that grind the formats (especially Standard) is exactly what WotC doesn't want since in their eyes, solved format = boring = less pack sales. They mess with tournament data for the very same reason. While pro players promote the product, WotC sure isn't interested in paying a living wage to people who fuck with their general business model.

  19. #39

    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Thing is that pro players that grind the formats (especially Standard) is exactly what WotC doesn't want since in their eyes, solved format = boring = less pack sales. They mess with tournament data for the very same reason. While pro players promote the product, WotC sure isn't interested in paying a living wage to people who fuck with their general business model.
    You really think it's that personal, and not just indifference?

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    Re: Gerry Thompson Protesting Worlds

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    You really think it's that personal, and not just indifference?
    Nah, mainly it's because WotC is way too stingy, but they certainly don't see incentive to pay people trying to crack the format more than already do.

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