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Thread: Shocklands

  1. #21

    Re: Shocklands

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Good discussion all, I appreciate it.

    My biggest reason for posting the thread is to understand that true duals are literally the biggest roadblock to people getting into legacy. I am slowly building up staples for decks I want to play (Force of Will, Jace, etc.) but the majority of cards in Legacy are affordable, especially if they cross over from Modern. Most modern players have fetchlands, which are the more important half of the fetch/dual manabase. If shocklands aren't competitive the same as true duals (or some new land that is just as effective) I think the writing really is on the wall for legacy going the way of vintage (fewer events, fewer people playing, overall just a lower quality community/scene.)
    Legacy has several options right now that are light on duals (which I'll define as 2 or less). Miracles doesn't play many, Shadow doesn't play many, S&S can get away with 2, BR Reanimator doesn't need many, Burn doesn't play them, and D&T doesn't play a single card on the RL.

    Then there's possible brews as well. It's not the full format, but there are a lot of effective decks that have essentially circumvented the supply issue on duals at this point.

  2. #22
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    Re: Shocklands

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    Legacy has several options right now that are light on duals (which I'll define as 2 or less). Miracles doesn't play many, Shadow doesn't play many, S&S can get away with 2, BR Reanimator doesn't need many, Burn doesn't play them, and D&T doesn't play a single card on the RL.

    Then there's possible brews as well. It's not the full format, but there are a lot of effective decks that have essentially circumvented the supply issue on duals at this point.
    Good point! It should be enough to open the format to many players. I know at my LGS, due to the reprinting of several high value staples (Rishadan Port and Wasteland mostly) D&T has really taken off.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Shocklands

    Manaless Dredge is a deck
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  4. #24

    Re: Shocklands

    I do see duals as being a roadblock for new players to join legacy, i would like it if they printed a new set of dual landa but make them legendary lands to avoid the RL. It wouldn’t break dual prices but it would help to get more people into playing Legacy.

  5. #25

    Re: Shocklands

    I think you are wrong for assuming shocklands are the only option.

    I'm working on miracles and going to try out Prairie Stream in place of Tundra, even though I have Tundras. Most times my miracles opponent's aren't fetching Tundra until they have they 3+lands in play anyways.
    Last edited by Jander78; 09-27-2018 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Added card tags

  6. #26
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    Re: Shocklands

    Quote Originally Posted by compacta_d View Post
    I think you are wrong for assuming shocklands are the only option.

    I'm working on miracles and going to try out Prairie Stream in place of Tundra, even though I have Tundras. Most times my miracles opponent's aren't fetching Tundra until they have they 3+lands in play anyways.
    Good point; I sometimes forget that WOTC has inserted some 'sub-par' fetchable duals. Irrigated Farmland offers a dual land with extended function if you have your mana already fixed with fetch/basics.

    Nice talking point.
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  7. #27

    Re: Shocklands

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Good point; I sometimes forget that WOTC has inserted some 'sub-par' fetchable duals. Irrigated Farmland offers a dual land with extended function if you have your mana already fixed with fetch/basics.

    Nice talking point.
    I could almost see that being actually superior to Tundra
    Especially if you have a B2B in play, you would probably much rather have a 2 mana cantrip than a lotus petal

  8. #28

    Re: Shocklands

    Honestly, I think duals are more a perceptual roadblock for a lot of people than an actual roadblock. The visceral "my manabase costs WHAT?" reaction is enough to put a lot of people off, even when they'd happily pay the same amount for a deck if it were spread out over other cards.

  9. #29
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    Re: Shocklands

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    I could almost see that being actually superior to Tundra
    Especially if you have a B2B in play, you would probably much rather have a 2 mana cantrip than a lotus petal
    Take it one step further: You can fetch for it tapped, return it to pay for Daze, then cycle it. This is obviously not ideal, but it's another angle in G1's where Daze becomes useless (and you don't have a Force of Will to make it worth anything.)
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  10. #30

    Re: Shocklands

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Take it one step further: You can fetch for it tapped, return it to pay for Daze, then cycle it. This is obviously not ideal, but it's another angle in G1's where Daze becomes useless (and you don't have a Force of Will to make it worth anything.)
    Haha unfortunately decks with Daze really do not want to play lands that ETB tapped but I like where your head is at.

  11. #31
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    Re: Shocklands

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Haha unfortunately decks with Daze really do not want to play lands that ETB tapped but I like where your head is at.
    Oh definitely, that's not a card you would play 4x in your Daze deck. One? Sure, maybe you can work around it, maybe make it land #21. My thinking is that in 2 color decks with 6+ basic lands and 8-10 fetchlands can easily fetch basic lands for stability and use their other lands in a different manner. Wasteland is ubiquitous (or close to it) in Daze decks, and that really isn't a mana-source either.

    I'm trying to put together a reasonable mana base for UW Stoneblade, which has been getting some variety in it's lists lately. Owen Turtenwald played Delver, Wasteland, Daze, and 4x Spell Pierce in his Stoneblade deck. Other stoneblade variants are taking the more traditional route and avoiding Daze/Wasteland for ultra-stability like the Miracles decks (seeing a lot of basics, 5+ in lots of variations.) Back to Basics is driving a fetch-basic approach that actually opens up the door for other decks to do the same. Whether playing with it or against it, fetching basics naturally plays around other predators (Wasteland, Blood Moon) while fighting the latest BtB craze from the control decks.

    This is my current mana-base, as I am on the Daze/Wasteland plan for Stoneblade:

    4x Flooded Strand
    3x Scalding Tarn
    1x Arid Mesa
    2x Hallowed Fountain
    1x Seachrome Coast
    4x Island
    2x Plains
    4x Wasteland

    I could easily see -1 Fountain/+1 Praire Stream, due to 6 basics. I could also see putting in more fetchlands, but I definitely want at least 2x fetchable dual lands. The good news is that Stoneblade naturally fights life-loss with Jitte/Bskull. I began testing it against Burn, the boogie-man against shocklands. Haven't lost yet in testing, even post-board.

    I'm not claiming 'this iz awesome, don't need no dualz', but so far for what I'm looking for (stable mana at the LGS) it works. More than anything, that first true dual is what makes the most difference. One Tundra and it changes the power level significantly. The 2nd and 3rd are important, but not as important as #1 (in my opinion.)
    Last edited by Jander78; 09-28-2018 at 12:24 PM. Reason: Added card tags
    Brainstorm Realist

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  12. #32

    Re: Shocklands

    1-land Belcher is the only deck that you could even start to argue that the 2 life doesn't matter.

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