Ub Painter?

[nexus blue]

Been looking all over on the interwebz as well as here, can’t find what I am looking for. I have read most of the Painter primer written by The Professor that discusses Caleb’s version and others, as I swore I saw it (or a version) mentioned there, but no joy so far.

I used to play a Ub version of a Painter/Grindstone deck that utilized the Counterbalance/SDT lock, with Bobs and Fabricate/Trinket Mage/Lim-Dul’s Vault to filter and organize the deck and set up the combo. It had a similar Show and Tell/Emrakul package to “transform” into as a SB option. It always played well in practice but I never got to test it in tournaments; I have been on a Magic hiatus for a few years and upon returning I see they banned Top (singleton tear).

My questions are:

Does this ring a bell with anyone else? If so, could you point me to the thread or discussion, whether here on the Source or elsewhere?

Does this type of build sound viable? Obviously with SDT banned it loses a lot of power (IMHO); being able to manipulate that top card with a Bob was near-angelic. But I am curious if those of you who haven’t stopped playing recently think this sort of setup was or could still be viable; maybe not DTB-worthy, but more than just fun for the homebrew crowd. I still have the cards and would like to start playing in some local Legacy events again.

Decklist was something like this:

4 SDT
4 Grindstone
4 Painter’s Servant
2 Tormod’s Crypt

4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
2 Transmute Artifact
2 Fabricate
4 Intuition

4 Dark Confidant

3 Lim-Dul’s Vault

4 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
1 Academy Ruins
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
7 Island

SB:

4 Show and Tell
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Tormod’s Crypt
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Hydroblast

Thanks!


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[pettdan]

There is a lot of brewing potential with Painter, and there are some interesting things going on in this version. There is a lot to comment on though. Here are some quick thoughts.

SDT has been replaced by Smuggler's Copter in Rw-lists. I like it in my Grixis lists too but it gets better with sol lands and they can be hard to accomodate in a grixis list. For UB it may work out though [edit: with sol lands]. It helps with your Show and Tells too. Once you use Copter there is good incentive to add Goblin Welder, and Pyroblast is another red card that's by itself a good reason to play Painter (meta dependent). Furthermore Baleful Strix is great in Ub, and even better with Welder. Also Intuition benefits from Welder.

The Antiquities War gives a good tutor + card advantage + alternate wincon package. Be aware of it, you are too low on artifacts though..

I like Counterbalance, even if it is a bit experimental. I board a copy for combo and control matchups. Chalice-playing mono blue Painter is a thing, and Counterbalance is the assymetric Chalice so based on others' testing it seems likea reasonable approach for testing.

4 fetches is maybe too little for your Brainstorms. Trinket Mage might be useful.

I would look at the Ub Omnishow lists, see their thread, for some inspiration. Especially post-sb that is where you'll want to be (well, maybe not Omniscience). I love transformational sideboards. I'd like to go grixis for maindeck Burning Wishes to get flexible maindeck answers and more access to SnT post-sb. But that's just me, you have Intuition which already fills this role.

Edit: I didn't notice the LDV's, I think with 4 Intuitions and 3 LDV's there may be a bit too much fluff in the deck. These cards don't affect the board state, and I would worry it'd be too easy to get run over. What do I know, though.. They are probably both great at setting up your post-sb SnT's. I'd at least cut one copy of Intuition though. And on top of that there are 2 Fabricates. And you play basically nothing to interact with creatures, I'm guessing you're gonna have some trouble with them.

[nexus blue]

There is a lot of brewing potential with Painter, and there are some interesting things going on in this version. There is a lot to comment on though. Here are some quick thoughts.

SDT has been replaced by Smuggler's Copter in Rw-lists. I like it in my Grixis lists too but it gets better with sol lands and they can be hard to accomodate in a grixis list. For UB it may work out though [edit: with sol lands]. It helps with your Show and Tells too. Once you use Copter there is good incentive to add Goblin Welder, and Pyroblast is another red card that's by itself a good reason to play Painter (meta dependent). Furthermore Baleful Strix is great in Ub, and even better with Welder. Also Intuition benefits from Welder.

The Antiquities War gives a good tutor + card advantage + alternate wincon package. Be aware of it, you are too low on artifacts though..

I like Counterbalance, even if it is a bit experimental. I board a copy for combo and control matchups. Chalice-playing mono blue Painter is a thing, and Counterbalance is the assymetric Chalice so based on others' testing it seems likea reasonable approach for testing.

4 fetches is maybe too little for your Brainstorms. Trinket Mage might be useful.

I would look at the Ub Omnishow lists, see their thread, for some inspiration. Especially post-sb that is where you'll want to be (well, maybe not Omniscience). I love transformational sideboards. I'd like to go grixis for maindeck Burning Wishes to get flexible maindeck answers and more access to SnT post-sb. But that's just me, you have Intuition which already fills this role.

Edit: I didn't notice the LDV's, I think with 4 Intuitions and 3 LDV's there may be a bit too much fluff in the deck. These cards don't affect the board state, and I would worry it'd be too easy to get run over. What do I know, though.. They are probably both great at setting up your post-sb SnT's. I'd at least cut one copy of Intuition though. And on top of that there are 2 Fabricates. And you play basically nothing to interact with creatures, I'm guessing you're gonna have some trouble with them.

I can get behind the Antiquities War, with all the artifacts that UR build runs, it makes perfect sense.

Yes, there is a lot of fluff in that list I posted, maybe this thread shouldn't be in N&D, I am not so much trying to create something as remember what someone else already did. I don't remember it exactly, maybe it was more Trinket Mage than Fabricate for a beater.

I do still have my ancient tombs, no city of traitors though, but I am not feeling the same love for the Smuggler's Copter as I am for the Antiquities War.

Without the tops I am not feeling as confident in the counterbalance game, although now that I type this I think I left two copies of Jace TMS off that might make those sync a little better. I should probably read up on how Miracles is running so strong, I played it before the banning and don't see how it functions as strongly now.s

Yes the fetch count is off, again, pulling this from a memory of several years ago.

I appreciate your insight, I will have to read up some and post what I learn. I did break down and order some welders; it seems foolish to avoid the power of the welders with intuition and grindstone/painter's servant.

[merfolkotpt]

I used to play a version of painter that was URb back when i was trying to find a way to better hang with stoneblade (this was awhile ago), I will say baleful strix was very good in that version (alongside bob). It does everything the deck wants, buys time from creatures, draws removal sometimes, can be transmuted into either combo piece, and is super good with welder. That being said, welder is obviously not in this list, but I still think it might be worth it.

[nexus blue]

I used to play a version of painter that was URb back when i was trying to find a way to better hang with stoneblade (this was awhile ago), I will say baleful strix was very good in that version (alongside bob). It does everything the deck wants, buys time from creatures, draws removal sometimes, can be transmuted into either combo piece, and is super good with welder. That being said, welder is obviously not in this list, but I still think it might be worth it.

I like this; I think there also might be room for some Thoughtseize-type cards. I am going to put some of these on the computer and play around some.

I do really like what Red brings to the table in welder and blast effects And plays on intuitions.

I was re -reading the Painter/Stone thread by the professor and found this idea, so I am glad to know I am not crazy in thinking I had seen it elsewhere and being unable to find it.



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[pettdan]

I assumed you saw the Grixis lists from the Painter-Stone thread that you mentioned reading, I'll send you my last list just in case you are interested in an example. Here is a link to a UB deck from that thread, which may help if you are interested in s UB version. Actually you may want to continue your discussion in that thread, it's where blue based Painter players will be reading. I also recommend you connect to the Painter discord for more chat like discussions.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1058167