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Thread: Todd Stevens Accusations

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    Todd Stevens Accusations

    Edited.

    He has been fired from SCG and banned from the Tour for 3 years. In short, he has been accused of at least 4 specific instances of sexual harassment.

    How do we as a community foster a civil and safe environment for all? Are there creeps in your circle if players?

    Article link:

    https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...rassing-women/
    Last edited by Mr. Safety; 10-23-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    To clarify a bit, the accusation is that he harassed women on after-tournaments parties. Maybe he was drunk as fuck, maybe not, but that isn't an excuse. SCG probably tried to save face and fired him/banned him from the tour.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Is our community truly this messed up?
    Messed up people can be everywhere. The main difference is that the MtG community is full of unique snowflakes which immediately start drama and witch-hunts for everything, be it justified or not. The screws the perception alot.

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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    In short, he has been accused of multiple (more than one, not clear on a number) instances of sexual harassment. It is by no means clear if they are real accusations or someone with an axe to grind.
    What is the difference between a "real" allegation and what would consequently be a "fake" one? It an allegation. Some allegations are more credible than others. But there is no such thing as a fake allegation. You either allege it, or you do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Circumstantial evidence points that it happened (he was indeed fired, he was indeed banned from the SCG tour) but this wouldn't be the first time a simple accusation resulted in a job loss, rather than an airtight open-close case.
    SCG is a company, not a court of law. No one claims that Todd murdered someone or something, there isn't going to be DNA evidence. 4 people made allegations. SCG viewed these allegations as credible and terminated their relationship with Todd. Do you think SCG did their due diligence? In other words, in the two weeks between the allegations being made and the decision made to terminate his employment, do we imagine they did nothing? Then, willy-nilly fired him? Doubtful. In reality, they probably corroborated the story, likely from people who are friends with Todd. Or, perhaps even, consider that Todd admitted it happened? Is that not possible?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Is our community truly this messed up?
    No, the community is not "this messed up." But there are people in it who, like people outside it, do stupid things from time to time. Today though, as opposed to in the past, people are less likely to put up with stupid behavior. You want to get drunk and act stupid? Go for it. But don't expect people to be required to put up with your shit.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    The most telling thing about our community is how many people jump to his defense and assume the article is clickbait without anything to back it up.

    The main difference is that the MtG community is full of unique snowflakes which immediately start drama and witch-hunts for everything, be it justified or not.
    This in itself tries to delegitimize allegations. The only snowflakes are the ones who get so upset when their fabricated heroes are fired for being pieces of shit.

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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    This in itself tries to delegitimize allegations. The only snowflakes are the ones who get so upset when their fabricated heroes are fired for being pieces of shit.
    Don't take the quote out of context. The MtG community isn't more or less "messed up" than anybody else, although it might appear so for the beholder if you only look at the shitstorms the community generates. Just because somebody acts like a shithead on a party doesn't mean the rest of the community is messed up in general. You merely put the spotlight on a shitty person.

    As for an example for unjustified outrage I'm refering to, I remind you of the whole "Garruk tried to rape Liliana on Triumph of Ferocity"-controversy. Boy, that was fucking stupid.

    Todd got fired and banned, so the allegations should have enough substance to be true.

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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    What is the difference between a "real" allegation and what would consequently be a "fake" one? It an allegation. Some allegations are more credible than others. But there is no such thing as a fake allegation. You either allege it, or you do not.
    Fair, I didn't phrase that well.



    SCG is a company, not a court of law. No one claims that Todd murdered someone or something, there isn't going to be DNA evidence. 4 people made allegations. SCG viewed these allegations as credible and terminated their relationship with Todd. Do you think SCG did their due diligence? In other words, in the two weeks between the allegations being made and the decision made to terminate his employment, do we imagine they did nothing? Then, willy-nilly fired him? Doubtful. In reality, they probably corroborated the story, likely from people who are friends with Todd. Or, perhaps even, consider that Todd admitted it happened? Is that not possible?
    I'm not sure on this part, was hoping for someone to actually fill in the gaps rather than posit more questions (not that I'm criticizing you, I have the same unanswered questions.)



    No, the community is not "this messed up." But there are people in it who, like people outside it, do stupid things from time to time. Today though, as opposed to in the past, people are less likely to put up with stupid behavior. You want to get drunk and act stupid? Go for it. But don't expect people to be required to put up with your shit.
    Well said. The 'messed up' part was in regards to not only this, but the Dan Lanthier cheating story recently as well. In a community that takes pride in it's acceptance of 'outsiders' it is alarming (to me) how it has become an unsafe place to let your freak flag fly.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    The most telling thing about our community is how many people jump to his defense and assume the article is clickbait without anything to back it up.
    We are haunted by echoes of Kavanaugh (he's such a nice man, he wouldn't do such a thing!) Nobody seems the type, until they are the type.



    This in itself tries to delegitimize allegations. The only snowflakes are the ones who get so upset when their fabricated heroes are fired for being pieces of shit.
    I tend to agree. In a world where accusations are dismissed more often than taken seriously it gets really easy to pick a side and call the other side 'snowflakes'. Doesn't do anybody any good.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Don't take the quote out of context. The MtG community isn't more or less "messed up" than anybody else, although it might appear so for the beholder if you only look at the shitstorms the community generates. Just because somebody acts like a shithead on a party doesn't mean the rest of the community is messed up in general. You merely put the spotlight on a shitty person.

    As for an example for unjustified outrage I'm refering to, I remind you of the whole "Garruk tried to rape Liliana on Triumph of Ferocity"-controversy. Boy, that was fucking stupid.

    Todd got fired and banned, so the allegations should have enough substance to be true.
    Don't be a dipshit.

    The magic community is known for being absolute garbage. This is the same community that would constantly post misogynistic comments about Jackie Lee, Melissa DeTora and other female players whenever they are on stream or do well in the tournament. It harassed a number of players at a GP about their physical appearance. Harassed a female cosplayer out of the game and not to mention the whole mtghq nonsense that came along with it. The list is endless.
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    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
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    My original post did that.

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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Well said. The 'messed up' part was in regards to not only this, but the Dan Lanthier cheating story recently as well. In a community that takes pride in it's acceptance of 'outsiders' it is alarming (to me) how it has become an unsafe place to let your freak flag fly.
    The main problem with cheaters is that WotC is way too lax with them. Alex Bertoncini is the posterchild for this problem - a notorious, repeated cheater who is still allowed to play sanctioned Magic. The Dan Lanthier thing just put the spotlight on a much bigger problem - WotC's unwillingness to fight the rampant cheating.

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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Fair, I didn't phrase that well.
    It's ok, but language is never neutral.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I'm not sure on this part, was hoping for someone to actually fill in the gaps rather than posit more questions (not that I'm criticizing you, I have the same unanswered questions.)
    Well, there are only a relatively small amount of people who could even have plausible access to anything resembling facts. That is, SCG, Todd Stevens, one of the accusers, or someone who witnessed alleged behavior. None of them will likely be visiting here, unfortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Well said. The 'messed up' part was in regards to not only this, but the Dan Lanthier cheating story recently as well. In a community that takes pride in it's acceptance of 'outsiders' it is alarming (to me) how it has become an unsafe place to let your freak flag fly.
    I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. There are social norms, social expectations, of everyone when in social spaces. If "letting your freak flag fly" constitutes unwantingly touching other people, or making overt sexual comments to them, you are really not going to be welcome in many social situations. Unless those social situations are dictated by that being the norm. In which case, it wouldn't be "unwantingly."

    If your "freak flag" is being a cheater at a card game, expect that the social norms will be against you as well. The expectation is that you are going to actually follow the rules of the game at hand. If your "freak flag" is that you like to eat mustard on a hamburger, then my all means, do carry on.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    If your "freak flag" is being a cheater at a card game, expect that the social norms will be against you as well. The expectation is that you are going to actually follow the rules of the game at hand. If your "freak flag" is that you like to eat mustard on a hamburger, then my all means, do carry on.
    I just mean people that are interested in things that are outside of the mainstream; Magic, cosplay, trekkies, etc. People interested in those things should be able to attend events without worry of being harassed or cheated.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I just mean people that are interested in things that are outside of the mainstream; Magic, cosplay, trekkies, etc. People interested in those things should be able to attend events without worry of being harassed or cheated.
    Right, even aside this, women should be able to go places (forget even Magic events, anywhere) without being touched, propositioned, threatened, questioned and disbelieved. It really isn't about anything so nebulous as "safe spaces" (which I think are bullshit anyway) but about basic human decorum and civility. You don't need safe spaces, you need people to behave socially as if they are actually civilized human beings capable of interacting with other human beings in a manner that is constructive and respectful, even if you disagree or don't like with whatever they are doing.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    but this wouldn't be the first time a simple accusation resulted in a job loss, rather than an airtight open-close case of a personality conflict.
    Really, this is the line you want to take? "SCG has banned him woe is he." There is no way this was not looked into before that choice was made and there is no way that choice was made for any reason other than a credible accusation. I do not for a moment think that SCG would walk into the shitstorm this was going to create without a dam good reason. SCG is a company run openly in the eye of the community. Its lifeblood is a good name, site traffic and overpricing cards. They don't want this shit.


    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    The magic community is known for being absolute garbage. This is the same community that would constantly post misogynistic comments about Jackie Lee, Melissa DeTora and other female players whenever they are on stream or do well in the tournament. It harassed a number of players at a GP about their physical appearance. Harassed a female cosplayer out of the game and not to mention the whole mtghq nonsense that came along with it. The list is endless.
    I saw something mentioned on this topic. "It is likely that we would be more outraged if he was caught cheating then we are over this." That's a point I actually think is true and says a bit more than I wanted to admit about this community.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Really, this is the line you want to take? "SCG has banned him woe is he." There is no way this was not looked into before that choice was made and there is no way that choice was made for any reason other than a credible accusation. I do not for a moment think that SCG would walk into the shitstorm this was going to create without a dam good reason. SCG is a company run openly in the eye on the community. Its lifeblood is a good name, site traffic and overpricing cards. They don't want this shit.
    For all we know, which is just barely above nothing, Stevens might even have admitted guilt. Haven't seen many even contemplate that possibility though. Where in all this is his statement? It's not an admission of guilt, but it is curious.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    I saw something mentioned on this topic. "It is likely that we would be more outraged if he was caught cheating then we are over this." That's a point I actually think is true and says a bit more than I wanted to admit about this community.
    This actually isn't surprising. The community is a community of the game. The game has strict rules, relatively speaking. If you break them, it's clear. Real life isn't so clear, especially as it comes to sexual interaction/politics. It's why people like games and sports. Notice the same thing happens when athletes do terrible shit in real life, there is mostly a collective shrug. But should they do something bad in the game, or worse, transgress the rules of the game: keep in mind, people have been shot and killed for an own-goal. Would that same person have been shot for violating the sanctity of a woman's person? Possible, but very unlikely. Probably depends on how good the guy is in-game, really.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    This actually isn't surprising. The community is a community of the game. The game has strict rules, relatively speaking. If you break them, it's clear. Real life isn't so clear, especially as it comes to sexual interaction/politics. It's why people like games and sports. Notice the same thing happens when athletes do terrible shit in real life, there is mostly a collective shrug. But should they do something bad in the game, or worse, transgress the rules of the game: keep in mind, people have been shot and killed for an own-goal. Would that same person have been shot for violating the sanctity of a woman's person? Possible, but very unlikely. Probably depends on how good the guy is in-game, really.
    Great point, although very depressing.

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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Right, even aside this, women should be able to go places (forget even Magic events, anywhere) without being touched, propositioned, threatened, questioned and disbelieved. It really isn't about anything so nebulous as "safe spaces" (which I think are bullshit anyway) but about basic human decorum and civility. You don't need safe spaces, you need people to behave socially as if they are actually civilized human beings capable of interacting with other human beings in a manner that is constructive and respectful, even if you disagree or don't like with whatever they are doing.
    I am 100% in agreement.
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Really, this is the line you want to take? "SCG has banned him woe is he." There is no way this was not looked into before that choice was made...
    No, this isn't the line I want to take. This is presenting both sides of the issue. I did not say anything remotely along the lines of 'woe is he.' I live and work in Maine, an at-will state, so anyone can be hired or fired for any reason aside from discrimination according to recognized protected groups. I could literally be fired for wearing a green shirt to work, no consequences to employer. I'm not sure what the rules are in Virginia. As you say, they probably 'don't want to touch this shit', so is it implausible that the company made a decision based on liability rather than being truly interested in doing the right thing? I am not making an accusation one way or another, but I've seen companies fire people for less severe situations based purely on potential liability, all facts aside.

    If anything I am slanted heavily towards 'dude is likely a creep'. I understand this was looked into. Did you read the opening post? I recognized he was indeed fired, he was indeed banned. I also recognize this isn't a criminal case, but a case of 'he no longer represents our values, he's fired.'
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Nope, not a crimal case. But that's far from the point right now. We are reacting to what we know and what trickles out. When it was just one article I was not forthcoming with any strong view. Now we have his stepping away from his podcast, team dropping him and a statement SCG no longer wishes to work with him as data points.

    I did read your post, I thought you worded it poorly.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Nope, not a crimal case. But that's far from the point right now. We are reacting to what we know and what trickles out. When it was just one article I was not forthcoming with any strong view. Now we have his stepping away from his podcast, team dropping him and a statement SCG no longer wishes to work with him as data points.

    I did read your post, I thought you worded it poorly.
    How would you have worded it?
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    Re: Todd Stevens Accusations

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    How would you have worded it?
    I would have:
    a) Read the article before I started a thread about it.
    b) Not made a comment about how it's a possibly it may be a false flag affair as that's happened in the past without reading into it.

    Sure, the evidence is certainly not air tight, but we have:
    Todd said he was going to the latest SCG, he did not show.
    Todd posts once a week on SCG almost like clockwork. His last article was 13 days ago.
    A respected site was willing to risk its reputation publishing this, no one has come out to refute them.
    BBD, who you would expect to have some access to SCG insiders all but confirmed it.
    His team cut him lose.
    SCG officially cut him lose.
    He stepped away from his podcast.
    He has no come out to defend himself in any way.

    I would have looked at that before saying "Hey, shit like this has been false in the past, could be he's in the right." At the least I would have read the article.

    Edit:
    Personally I am unhappy with him. The decks he plays in Modern match up well to my own styles and enjoyment. I liked that he would tinker with things, update things. Set up decks to work like the Excavator, Azuza, GQ build that's my kind of thing. On a purely selfish level I am pissed at him for that. That he has, though his own actions removed that building expertise from the game.

    But then I think about if it's worth it to keep him around. No. Nothing he offers balances out this behaviour.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
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    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

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