Page 7 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 121 to 140 of 155

Thread: Grixis Phoenix

  1. #121
    Member
    Pdingo's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Bern (Switzerland)
    Posts

    284

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Good luck with it! Tommy Ashton has been playing the deck in the main today and went 9-0, I'd use his! Or something close, I think the main at least is excellent. And I agree with your assessment about lands, though that is with some petals in there too. They've been much better than anticipated.

    4 Arclight Phoenix
    1 Badlands
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Island
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Buried Alive
    2 Daze
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    3 Lotus Petal
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    3 Young Pyromancer
    2 Lightning Bolt
    2 Tombstalker
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Swamp
    1 Bloodstained Mire

    2 Abrade
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Echoing Truth
    3 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Snuff Out
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Spell Pierce
    1 Marsh Casualties
    interesting what where his match ups? Seems really like the Grixis list is just smoother. But yeah would be interesting to know the match ups:)

  2. #122
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Pdingo View Post
    interesting what where his match ups? Seems really like the Grixis list is just smoother. But yeah would be interesting to know the match ups:)
    Some hard ones actually, he said even Depths, Elves and Moon Stompy he won pretty easily. It's part of having a deck with discard + a fast kill, you can win any matchup.

    Stoneblade
    BR Reanimator
    Infect
    'Kotr/GSZ deck'
    Depths
    Elves
    Moon Stompy
    Grixis Control
    Eldrazi Post
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  3. #123
    Member
    Pdingo's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Bern (Switzerland)
    Posts

    284

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    yeah i agree with grixis the mana base is just better and the pyro and the pyromancer are just better. i came also to the conclusion that yesterday was a bad day and had bad pairings. i also understand now better the difference between grixis and esper. well after my disturbing saturday i gonna test grixis now. i also agree with you now about daze. i tested the whole morning with grixis phoenix. also echoing truth seems necessary for bounce dark depths or reanimate peace's.
    the only thing i would change in the sb is play at least 1 ee. i just think it's a really strong card atm+ 2 lili the last hope what i found always overperforming.

  4. #124
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Second place in the MTGO Challenge today, so close! Coupled with Tommy Ashtons insane display of 14-1 at the SCG open it's been a pretty nice weekend for the birds.

    Matchups were

    R1: 2-1 vs Turbo Depths
    R2: 2-0 vs UB Shadow
    R3: 2-0 vs DnT
    R4: 0-2 vs UR Delver
    R5: 2-0 vs Punishing RUG midrange
    R6: 2-0 vs Slow Depths
    R7: 2-0 vs Slow Depths
    QF: 2-0 vs Moon Stompy
    SF: 2-0 vs Pile
    F: 1-2 vs ANT (Cyrus)

    It was my first time testing Dark Confidant and they really performed, definitely going to continue playing with them. Petals have also consistently been performing, and with Dark Confidant the card disadvantage can be mitigated while giving you a good chance to beat the harder matchups. Really liked this maindeck, I only cast two sideboard cards the whole challenge and they didn't really do very much. No need for a sb if the opponent is dead!



    3 Dark Confidant
    3 Young Pyromancer
    4 Arclight Phoenix

    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Brainstorm
    3 Thoughtseize
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Buried Alive
    2 Daze
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Lightning Bolt

    4 Polluted Dela
    3 Scalding Tarn
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Volcanic Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Swamp

    Sb:
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Abrade
    2 Goblin Cratermaker
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Echoing Truth
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  5. #125
    Member
    Jaytron's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2015
    Location

    Norcal
    Posts

    238

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    With both the tombstalker list and your bob list doing very well this week, what do you like about the two choices?

    16 vs 15 lands?

  6. #126
    Member
    Baum's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Cologne, Germany
    Posts

    96

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Congrats on the great result, Whitefaces!

    Between your and Tommy Ashton's lists, I like that you cut Liliana, the Last Hope from the sideboard. The card is obviously great against Miracles and Grixis Control, but with the recent move towards more Stoneblade, I feel Liliana became a liability against opposing TNNs. The amount of free wins she grants against control just went way down. When I tested against Death & Taxes, I also encountered some situations where my opponent had a Mother of Runes and my deck's lack of other removal spells couldn't break through to make Liliana truly great. And of course she doesn't kill Ethersworn Canonist, which is a beating against us. Same for Containment Priest, but that's not as bad as Canonist.

    How has Goblin Cratermaker been? It looks a bit clunky. Is killing Emrakul worth paying three Mana to destroy artifacts or hatebears?

    I managed to get in some testing with Counterbalance. Be aware that I might be slightly biased because I've played a fair share of miracles and really enjoy the Counterbalance subgame ;)
    *
    On Friday, I played some practice matches against Grixis Control and Miracles. Against Grixis, Counterbalance was fine but not game breaking. They've got a number of important spells (Snapcaster, Hymn) on CMC 2, which our Counterbalance curve lines up poorly against. Countering their cantrips, Extractions and Kolaghan's Commands is nice though. Against Miracles, Counterbalance was bonkers. They rely way more on their cantrips than Grixis Control. They CMC 2 Problem is still there, but some of their most dangerous cards (Mentor, Back to Basics) are on CMC 3, which we've got covered. In one game, my opponent had 2 Rest in Peace and a Canonist in play, while I had Counterbalance, Jace and some Pyromancer tokens to protect the planeswalker. Of course, that was a perfect set of cards on my side, but beating Miracles at their own control game was somewhat impressive.

    On Saturday, I played a small 4 round event. I didn't do too well, but still learned some lessons. I won against Slivers and lost against Lands, Esper Blade and UB Shadow. Against Lands, there wasn't much I could do. I easily won G1 with a fast combo, but lost both post SB games to an early Sphere of Resistance paired with lots of mana denial. Against Esper Blade, I kept a potential great hand with one Land, Dark Ritual + Buried Alive, Brainstorm and 2 discard Spells. Sadly, I brainstorm locked myself on T2 and died because I found the second land on T5 or so. I then screwed up my sideboarding and lost G2. I boarded out my removal, because I don't really care about their G1 creatures and Containment Priest can be beaten with hardcast Birds. I completely missed that it's pretty likely Stoneblade has Canonist in the SB. I could get rid of the first Canonist with Jace bounce + Therapy, but the second one got me. Counterbalance was great tough. It kept me way longer in that game than I should have. If I had removal for the Canonist, it would have been an easy game to win. Against UB Shadow nothing special happened. I still think the matchup is positive, but sometimes you just lose a match of magic. Maybe I made some errors, but I can't recall any major punts.

    Yesterday, I started a league. I still have to play the last two matches, but since I cast Counterbalance in all three matches so far, I guess I can write about them as well.

    Match 1 was against Slow Depths (2:0). I mostly won because I had fast draws and they durdled with Dark Confidant. Having Counterbalance with a one on top to be safe from Crop Rotation was nice though. That being said, I don't think we have enough time to set up a counterbalance against a good Depths draw.

    Match 2 was the mirror (2:1). In G2, I counterbalanced them after deploying Pyromancer. I was pretty far ahead anyway, but counterbalance put the game completely out of reach for them.

    In Match 3 I played against Elves (2:0). G1, I had a T3 kill on the play and my opponent couldn't kill me on his T2. Counterbalance was good in G2. Countering a Zenith for Scavenging Ooze with a blind flipped Buried Alive was hilarious.

    So what's my verdict for Counterbalance? I think the card is good in the deck and adds a unique angle of attack against some decks. I still have to test against Storm and Sneak Show. I honestly have no clue if it's better or worse than Tombstalker or Dark Confidant. I guess all these cards shine against a different set of strategies. I think I'll keep on testing counterbalance for a bit, just to get more information. Bob sound really nice though... :)

  7. #127
    Member
    talpa's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2016
    Location

    Italy
    Posts

    125

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Second place in the MTGO Challenge today, so close! Coupled with Tommy Ashtons insane display of 14-1 at the SCG open it's been a pretty nice weekend for the birds. (...)
    It was my first time testing Dark Confidant and they really performed
    Congratulations for you result. Can we have a link for the Ashtons result? Don't see him here http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/S...imore_MD_US/1/
    Quote Originally Posted by talpa View Post
    Final question, in regard to "how to maximize dark ritual when you don't have the combo/attack from a different angle", has anybody thought of a couple of Dark Confidants instead of (or to supplement) Lilianas? A start of ritual, discard, confidant would seem strong too.
    glad to hear this "new ideas" seem to work



    Quote Originally Posted by Baum View Post
    there seem to be two schools of thought about how to play the deck. Some comments about cards like Counterbalance or Tombstalker mention that they don't support our game plan and that we should try to be as streamlined as possible. TBH I think that philosophy is somewhat flawed. I believe the strength of decks like Phoenix is that they have a combo element, but can easily incorporate midrange or control aspects to make life awkward for the opponent
    I strongly agree.
    I still don't have so much testing (not enough time) but I've tried a few different builds, including UR without Buried Alive. I am now thinking one can try to merge the UR-delver-pteramander version and the grixis phoenix one. I think the ceiling with Buried Alive is too high to drop it; meanwhile, one should try to raise the floor (which is very low with cards like Thought Scour/Mental Note etc).
    I think it would be good to try a delver version instead of pyromancer: this way one can really pressure the opponent since the very beginning, and assemble the combo while he is trying to fight a very different axis (if the opponent search for cards to resolve the board threats, he could disregard the "fight for the stack", leaving the way open to resolve our spells). I think Pteramander has way more potential than Tombstalker (sure, it's a little slower and more prone to common removals, but he is also not weak to unsummon effects, you can play it as soon as turn 1, and you can easily play multiples). If you happen to draw a dark ritual and you don't plan to spend it differently (= for the combo) you can also surprise the opponent adapting it very quickly (a single ritual counts for 4 mana on the 8 adapt costs!).
    Final considerations: personally I like to have some copy of FoW; since I play in a field of back to basics, and we need the basic swamp way more than the basic mountain, I thought I could try fatal pushes above lightning bolts (as for now, I never needed the reach - the classic bolt to the face). For a moment, I even considered Contagion as a possibility for a free spell count.
    The list I tried last saturday:

    3 Pteramander
    4 Arclight Phoenix
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Buried Alive
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Force of Will
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Badlands
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire

    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Invasive Surgery
    2 Rough//Tumble
    2 Abrade
    2 Perilous Voyage

    I went for a poor 2-2 winning against Miracle and Eldrazi and losing to Death and Taxes and ANT, but I really liked the list: I don't think the reasons for my losses were poor choices in the list or bad playing. Against D&T (I knew he played it) I kept a hand that could potentially do 12 damage in the second turn (I had delver ritual and buried alive) but I needed to draw a black mana source since I had only a basic island. I was on the draw, so between lands and cantrips I considered roughly 75% of probability to "go off" t2. I never drew a land in 5 turns and died. G2 he went for cavern on humans, thalia, prelate on 1 (which of course is even worse than chalice). Against ANT, I was again OTD g1 and had a discard t1 and the combo for t2 (so the kill for t3), of course he killed me on his third turn. In g2 I cantripped forever without ever finding anything relevant after a couple early discards. So I don't think I should be disappointed, it was simply inevitable to lose those games I think.

  8. #128
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaytron View Post
    With both the tombstalker list and your bob list doing very well this week, what do you like about the two choices?

    16 vs 15 lands?
    I think both are good. I've been working with Tommy on the deck, I can't say for sure which is better, we're still trying different things out and with both performing well it's hard to say. I trimmed a land because of the Dark Confidants, if I wasn't playing them I think I'd play 16.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baum View Post
    Congrats on the great result, Whitefaces!

    Between your and Tommy Ashton's lists, I like that you cut Liliana, the Last Hope from the sideboard. The card is obviously great against Miracles and Grixis Control, but with the recent move towards more Stoneblade, I feel Liliana became a liability against opposing TNNs. The amount of free wins she grants against control just went way down. When I tested against Death & Taxes, I also encountered some situations where my opponent had a Mother of Runes and my deck's lack of other removal spells couldn't break through to make Liliana truly great. And of course she doesn't kill Ethersworn Canonist, which is a beating against us. Same for Containment Priest, but that's not as bad as Canonist.

    How has Goblin Cratermaker been? It looks a bit clunky. Is killing Emrakul worth paying three Mana to destroy artifacts or hatebears?

    I managed to get in some testing with Counterbalance. Be aware that I might be slightly biased because I've played a fair share of miracles and really enjoy the Counterbalance subgame ;)
    *
    On Friday, I played some practice matches against Grixis Control and Miracles. Against Grixis, Counterbalance was fine but not game breaking. They've got a number of important spells (Snapcaster, Hymn) on CMC 2, which our Counterbalance curve lines up poorly against. Countering their cantrips, Extractions and Kolaghan's Commands is nice though. Against Miracles, Counterbalance was bonkers. They rely way more on their cantrips than Grixis Control. They CMC 2 Problem is still there, but some of their most dangerous cards (Mentor, Back to Basics) are on CMC 3, which we've got covered. In one game, my opponent had 2 Rest in Peace and a Canonist in play, while I had Counterbalance, Jace and some Pyromancer tokens to protect the planeswalker. Of course, that was a perfect set of cards on my side, but beating Miracles at their own control game was somewhat impressive.

    On Saturday, I played a small 4 round event. I didn't do too well, but still learned some lessons. I won against Slivers and lost against Lands, Esper Blade and UB Shadow. Against Lands, there wasn't much I could do. I easily won G1 with a fast combo, but lost both post SB games to an early Sphere of Resistance paired with lots of mana denial. Against Esper Blade, I kept a potential great hand with one Land, Dark Ritual + Buried Alive, Brainstorm and 2 discard Spells. Sadly, I brainstorm locked myself on T2 and died because I found the second land on T5 or so. I then screwed up my sideboarding and lost G2. I boarded out my removal, because I don't really care about their G1 creatures and Containment Priest can be beaten with hardcast Birds. I completely missed that it's pretty likely Stoneblade has Canonist in the SB. I could get rid of the first Canonist with Jace bounce + Therapy, but the second one got me. Counterbalance was great tough. It kept me way longer in that game than I should have. If I had removal for the Canonist, it would have been an easy game to win. Against UB Shadow nothing special happened. I still think the matchup is positive, but sometimes you just lose a match of magic. Maybe I made some errors, but I can't recall any major punts.

    Yesterday, I started a league. I still have to play the last two matches, but since I cast Counterbalance in all three matches so far, I guess I can write about them as well.

    Match 1 was against Slow Depths (2:0). I mostly won because I had fast draws and they durdled with Dark Confidant. Having Counterbalance with a one on top to be safe from Crop Rotation was nice though. That being said, I don't think we have enough time to set up a counterbalance against a good Depths draw.

    Match 2 was the mirror (2:1). In G2, I counterbalanced them after deploying Pyromancer. I was pretty far ahead anyway, but counterbalance put the game completely out of reach for them.

    In Match 3 I played against Elves (2:0). G1, I had a T3 kill on the play and my opponent couldn't kill me on his T2. Counterbalance was good in G2. Countering a Zenith for Scavenging Ooze with a blind flipped Buried Alive was hilarious.

    So what's my verdict for Counterbalance? I think the card is good in the deck and adds a unique angle of attack against some decks. I still have to test against Storm and Sneak Show. I honestly have no clue if it's better or worse than Tombstalker or Dark Confidant. I guess all these cards shine against a different set of strategies. I think I'll keep on testing counterbalance for a bit, just to get more information. Bob sound really nice though... :)
    Thanks!

    Honestly I was a bit sad to cut Liliana, I had one in the sb until the last moment when I signed up and she's great in the deck imo, but everything you say is true that while it's a nice angle for the deck to have she makes good matchups better, and I've run into the same issue vs Mother of Runes, it's a fair critique, I've not cut her for good though.

    I cast a sideboard card 3 times in the whole event yesterday, and lost 2/3 of those games (both in the finals). So the evidence suggests we shouldn't have a sb Jokes aside he's been fine while playing with him before, it is slower and a bit clunky, but quite versatile. It's especially geared for Eldrazi where taking out either a lock piece of creature has come up pretty clutch. I like that it's castable vs Moon too, kills Rabblemaster/Legion Warboss, and kills Delver too though I'm not sure if we bring it in there. It really does a lot, just on the expensive side but with the fast mana I'm at least interested in trying it more.

    A shame that the Saturday event didn't go great, but you're right that sometimes there are games that you make the right decisions but can't win, happens. At least you learnt something from it. I like keeping bolts vs Stoneblade decks since like you found out they very often have at least Containment Priest, and sometimes Canonist, Meddling Mage etc.

    Nice testing! Thanks for the feedback, I still lean on the side of what PDingo was saying before that while it may perform well it's not necessarily an approach we want to take, but please keep trying it and relay everything here, it's great. It's certainly a unique angle that's for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by talpa View Post
    Congratulations for you result. Can we have a link for the Ashtons result? Don't see him here http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/S...imore_MD_US/1/

    glad to hear this "new ideas" seem to work




    I strongly agree.
    I still don't have so much testing (not enough time) but I've tried a few different builds, including UR without Buried Alive. I am now thinking one can try to merge the UR-delver-pteramander version and the grixis phoenix one. I think the ceiling with Buried Alive is too high to drop it; meanwhile, one should try to raise the floor (which is very low with cards like Thought Scour/Mental Note etc).
    I think it would be good to try a delver version instead of pyromancer: this way one can really pressure the opponent since the very beginning, and assemble the combo while he is trying to fight a very different axis (if the opponent search for cards to resolve the board threats, he could disregard the "fight for the stack", leaving the way open to resolve our spells). I think Pteramander has way more potential than Tombstalker (sure, it's a little slower and more prone to common removals, but he is also not weak to unsummon effects, you can play it as soon as turn 1, and you can easily play multiples). If you happen to draw a dark ritual and you don't plan to spend it differently (= for the combo) you can also surprise the opponent adapting it very quickly (a single ritual counts for 4 mana on the 8 adapt costs!).
    Final considerations: personally I like to have some copy of FoW; since I play in a field of back to basics, and we need the basic swamp way more than the basic mountain, I thought I could try fatal pushes above lightning bolts (as for now, I never needed the reach - the classic bolt to the face). For a moment, I even considered Contagion as a possibility for a free spell count.
    The list I tried last saturday:

    3 Pteramander
    4 Arclight Phoenix
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Preordain
    4 Buried Alive
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Force of Will
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Badlands
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Bloodstained Mire

    3 Surgical Extraction
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Invasive Surgery
    2 Rough//Tumble
    2 Abrade
    2 Perilous Voyage

    I went for a poor 2-2 winning against Miracle and Eldrazi and losing to Death and Taxes and ANT, but I really liked the list: I don't think the reasons for my losses were poor choices in the list or bad playing. Against D&T (I knew he played it) I kept a hand that could potentially do 12 damage in the second turn (I had delver ritual and buried alive) but I needed to draw a black mana source since I had only a basic island. I was on the draw, so between lands and cantrips I considered roughly 75% of probability to "go off" t2. I never drew a land in 5 turns and died. G2 he went for cavern on humans, thalia, prelate on 1 (which of course is even worse than chalice). Against ANT, I was again OTD g1 and had a discard t1 and the combo for t2 (so the kill for t3), of course he killed me on his third turn. In g2 I cantripped forever without ever finding anything relevant after a couple early discards. So I don't think I should be disappointed, it was simply inevitable to lose those games I think.
    Thanks!

    Tommys team didn't make T8 unfortunately, but I posted his list on the last page and it's on the SCG results somewhere. It was a team event, but his personal record was 14-1.

    And apologies that I didn't try out Dark Confidant sooner since you suggested it, a couple of friends had suggested it to me too but I didn't think the idea was very good honestly, but as the deck has evolved and especially the addition of Lotus Petals makes him more appealing.

    Your list is interesting, and quite a different approach. I'll be totally honest and say I'm not a big fan of a lot of what's going on, but that's based on my experience playing the 'usual' list. If you can come back to us with some feedback after playing more that would be cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  9. #129
    Member
    Baum's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2013
    Location

    Cologne, Germany
    Posts

    96

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    I was just thinking about sideboarding with the Bob/Petal list. Against grindy blue control decks, would you side out some/all petals?

  10. #130
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Baum View Post
    I was just thinking about sideboarding with the Bob/Petal list. Against grindy blue control decks, would you side out some/all petals?
    Yeah that's what I've been doing. Generally all 3 Petal come out and some number of bolt depending on the exact mu, I'd keep all bolts vs UW blade, 2 vs Miracles, probably 0 vs Grixis, but I've been changing sbing up half based on intuition and then if the match goes to a game 3 I think it's especially important with this deck to reevaluate sbing based on what hate cards you've seen.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  11. #131

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    I don't even play this deck but I come here just to say: very good job WhiteFaces!

    Sadly your amazing perform against Depths is not valid because you dodged me. I'm glad that you finally shaved Alpine Moon tho.

  12. #132
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Jax- View Post
    I don't even play this deck but I come here just to say: very good job WhiteFaces!

    Sadly your amazing perform against Depths is not valid because you dodged me. I'm glad that you finally shaved Alpine Moon tho.
    Haha, thanks! I might have bumped into you if you'd won more!
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  13. #133

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Is there a reason to play tormod's cryp over nihil spellbomb ? Is the chancellor trigger a good one ?

    I think spellbomb is better especailly against control decks suchh as miracle, grixis control etc ...

    draw one card is good

  14. #134
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by adrieng View Post
    Is there a reason to play tormod's cryp over nihil spellbomb ? Is the chancellor trigger a good one ?

    I think spellbomb is better especailly against control decks suchh as miracle, grixis control etc ...

    draw one card is good
    You're right that Chancellor is part of the reason, second is being able to cantrip into a Crypt from turn one. Since they're almost exclusively for GY based decks, most of which are very fast, it's better to have speed over the card draw. Spellbomb would be better vs control yes, but I'm not sure we'd even side them in there tbh, it's fine in control mirrors but we attack those matchups a bit differently, not with incremental value.

    Tormod's Crypt is by far the most asked about card, I really need to update the primer and do a good section on it. Will try to soon!
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  15. #135
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,566

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Wouldn't a split of Crypt and Surgical be more effective than 3-4 of just one effect? I realize that most graveyard-centric strategies aren't playing the anti-hate game with effects like Pithing Needle anymore, but there are some decks that play Cabal Therapy that could strip multiple copies of a singular hate piece. I'd personally run a split, but maybe that's just not necessary in the meta these days?
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  16. #136
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Wouldn't a split of Crypt and Surgical be more effective than 3-4 of just one effect? I realize that most graveyard-centric strategies aren't playing the anti-hate game with effects like Pithing Needle anymore, but there are some decks that play Cabal Therapy that could strip multiple copies of a singular hate piece. I'd personally run a split, but maybe that's just not necessary in the meta these days?
    I've sometimes played 3 Crypt 1 Surgical, I know some others play 2/2 but when the Crypt is being played proactively the only time a Cabal Therapy is catching it is turn one really, and you can still cantrip into them. I just want consistency in a gameplan vs these decks that give you very little time. It's also crucial for the Storm matchup, I attack the deck on two of their 'pillars', being life total (Ad Naus) and GY (PiF). If you negate Ad Naus line with the combo, which one hit will mostly do, then Crypt shuts off a PiF they need to natural storm you, this relies on a critical mass which our discard is very good at stripping down. If you don't get both these angles in check then they beat you pretty easily. In this gameplan Surgical is easily discarded and doesn't fulfill the roll I want from that card. Every time I've had it in hand vs reanimator it's just discarded too, it's what their deck is built to do.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  17. #137
    Member
    Jaynel's Avatar
    Join Date

    Feb 2006
    Location

    Boston
    Posts

    959

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Sb:
    4 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Engineered Explosives
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Abrade
    2 Goblin Cratermaker
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Echoing Truth
    Congrats on the finish. I know you mentioned you rarely saw SB cards, but could you explain the rationale behind the Engineered Plague slot? It seems fine against Storm (name Goblins), okay against Dragon Stompy (again name Goblins), but seems like overboarding when bringing in possibly 7 other cards, and would be great against D&T naming Human...except Bob and Pyromancer are also Humans and I can't imagine boarding those guys out against D&T. I guess it hits TNN or Germ vs Stoneblade?

    I like the EE and Cratermaker slots a lot.

  18. #138
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaynel View Post
    Congrats on the finish. I know you mentioned you rarely saw SB cards, but could you explain the rationale behind the Engineered Plague slot? It seems fine against Storm (name Goblins), okay against Dragon Stompy (again name Goblins), but seems like overboarding when bringing in possibly 7 other cards, and would be great against D&T naming Human...except Bob and Pyromancer are also Humans and I can't imagine boarding those guys out against D&T. I guess it hits TNN or Germ vs Stoneblade?

    I like the EE and Cratermaker slots a lot.
    It was mostly a narrow hedge for Elves. The deck has been doing well the last few challenges and I think it's strong right now, the matchup has felt close but slightly unfavoured for us.

    I'd probably swap them for a Marsh Casualties and Liliana, the Last Hope now.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  19. #139
    Member
    Whitefaces's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2013
    Location

    London
    Posts

    1,355

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Some nice media in the wake of the weekend

    Article on SCG where they talk about the deck, some high praise - http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ak-Legacy.html

    Cedric Phillips interview Tommy Ashton after his performance at the SCG open - https://soundcloud.com/thecedricphil...-for-tommy-mtg

    I really, really need to update the primer now!
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  20. #140

    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Some nice media in the wake of the weekend

    Article on SCG where they talk about the deck, some high praise - http://www.starcitygames.com/article...ak-Legacy.html

    Cedric Phillips interview Tommy Ashton after his performance at the SCG open - https://soundcloud.com/thecedricphil...-for-tommy-mtg

    I really, really need to update the primer now!
    I saw you got 2nd place in the last legaue, congratulations! How do you like Dark Confidant in the deck? I also have a question about having a turn 1 or turn 2 buried alive. Do you always try to use a discard spell on your opponent first?

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (2 members and 1 guests)

  1. Gruul
  2. zerozero