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Thread: Grixis Phoenix

  1. #161

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Tried out grixis Phoenix at my local 1k yesterday. Ended up going 4-2, losing to Steel Stompy and a Griseldaddy/Dark Depths deck. Here though I play against zombebardbarment, starts roughly 59min into the stream. I had a few misplays, but ended up winning overall. I ran the Tombstalker list since I’m waiting on my bobs to show up this coming week. Anyway, here it is.

    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/385566940

  2. #162
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    Re: Buried Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Esper list
    Played this list this weekend with the following changes:

    * Changed the fetches from 4/4/1 to 3/3/3 and realized that Marsh Flats doesn't get Volcanic Island within minutes of sitting down for my first round.
    * Turned Tormod's Crypt #3 into Surgical Extraction #2 because I don't have a third Tormod's Crypt



    Round 1, my opponent had EE, D Sphere, and RIP all in his main so he quite thoroughly wrecked me.



    Round 2 was Esper Control - Just straight Esper good cards. No Stoneforges! A parade of removal, discard, and gravehate took me down.

    Round 3 I got the BYE so I dropped to take a nap.

    The deck was a lot of fun. One observation I had is I was always either hurting for mana or for cards. Perhaps I'll like the Grixis build better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    You don't get to play the most powerful cards in the format and then bitch when someone finally says no. You also don't get to bitch that it's not fun when someone finally tells you no instead of voyeuristicly watching you masturbate with Cantrips.

  3. #163
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Been running Grixis Phoenix for two weeks now, to a 3rd and a 7th place at our last weeklies in my LGS.

    Gotta say, this whole thread has thought me lots, and I just wanted to thank all of you. I completely fell in love with this deck.



    Bob just feels so freaking good in this deck, that I actually regretted playing Tombs last week. Pretty sure some card advantage could've helped me in my loss.

    However, the one card that keeps on letting me down is lightning bolt. I dont know if it is just situational, but every single time I have a bolt in my hand, I could do so much better by having another discard outlet, another cantrip or even a maindeck surgical (which I've become more and more towards doing), or even a different win-con or any other spicy 1-of.

    Am I just reading the role for bolt in this deck really wrong (and if I am just help me out), or are any of you guys also getting disappointed at our beloved 3 damage for 1 mana?

  4. #164
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Tortonon View Post
    Been running Grixis Phoenix for two weeks now, to a 3rd and a 7th place at our last weeklies in my LGS.

    Gotta say, this whole thread has thought me lots, and I just wanted to thank all of you. I completely fell in love with this deck.



    Bob just feels so freaking good in this deck, that I actually regretted playing Tombs last week. Pretty sure some card advantage could've helped me in my loss.

    However, the one card that keeps on letting me down is lightning bolt. I dont know if it is just situational, but every single time I have a bolt in my hand, I could do so much better by having another discard outlet, another cantrip or even a maindeck surgical (which I've become more and more towards doing), or even a different win-con or any other spicy 1-of.

    Am I just reading the role for bolt in this deck really wrong (and if I am just help me out), or are any of you guys also getting disappointed at our beloved 3 damage for 1 mana?
    Glad to hear you're enjoying it and having some success!

    Bobs are indeed great, really nice addition. I have been seeing the lack of Tombstalker hurts the Delver matchups though, but that's one of the few matchups where it's better than Bob probably, bar stuff like Burn.

    Bolt can look pretty bad sometimes, but I think it's important for the deck to play a mid game, or to take out things like Thalia or other hatebears. If we're playing vs a non-creature deck then it can make 3x Phoenixes lethal the next turn too. It's not especially synergistic but does a good enough job in the deck I think. Saying that, ewlandon has been trying out Forked Bolts and I'm pretty sold on them. They help matchups like Elves, and often Delver and DnT while when it goes to the opponents face it's almost always still going to be lethal because of the 9 + 9 of our combo.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  5. #165
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Glad to hear you're enjoying it and having some success!

    Bobs are indeed great, really nice addition. I have been seeing the lack of Tombstalker hurts the Delver matchups though, but that's one of the few matchups where it's better than Bob probably, bar stuff like Burn.

    Bolt can look pretty bad sometimes, but I think it's important for the deck to play a mid game, or to take out things like Thalia or other hatebears. If we're playing vs a non-creature deck then it can make 3x Phoenixes lethal the next turn too. It's not especially synergistic but does a good enough job in the deck I think. Saying that, ewlandon has been trying out Forked Bolts and I'm pretty sold on them. They help matchups like Elves, and often Delver and DnT while when it goes to the opponents face it's almost always still going to be lethal because of the 9 + 9 of our combo.
    Yeah, my plan B was to get some forked bolts (Our field has DnTs, Delver decks and an Elves player), but I dont have any as of yet and the LGS is out of stock on them, and the friend who was gonna lend me his forgot as well.

    I also wanted to ask about Flusterstorm x Pyroblast. Being that we have tormods and surgicals, wouldnt it be better to SB pyroblast for the blue removal capabilities instead of fluster (I'm thinking about removing jace, b2b, counterbalance and so on). Of course fluster is godlike in counter battles and all, but I often feel like pyroblast could really improve the matches where we need to go the distance (which are mostly UW anyways).

  6. #166
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Tortonon View Post
    Yeah, my plan B was to get some forked bolts (Our field has DnTs, Delver decks and an Elves player), but I dont have any as of yet and the LGS is out of stock on them, and the friend who was gonna lend me his forgot as well.

    I also wanted to ask about Flusterstorm x Pyroblast. Being that we have tormods and surgicals, wouldnt it be better to SB pyroblast for the blue removal capabilities instead of fluster (I'm thinking about removing jace, b2b, counterbalance and so on). Of course fluster is godlike in counter battles and all, but I often feel like pyroblast could really improve the matches where we need to go the distance (which are mostly UW anyways).
    Lighting Bolt is still a good card. I think Forked is probably better in this deck, but it's not going to be a huge difference.

    I've actually been a bit disappointed with Flusterstorms and Spell Pierces recently and want to try some other things in those spots, Vendilion Clique is one that Tommy Ashton played at the SCG team event and said it was very good. I also played Pyroblast before in this deck and they were good, so try the switch and let us know how it goes, it could be good.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  7. #167
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    Lighting Bolt is still a good card. I think Forked is probably better in this deck, but it's not going to be a huge difference.

    I've actually been a bit disappointed with Flusterstorms and Spell Pierces recently and want to try some other things in those spots, Vendilion Clique is one that Tommy Ashton played at the SCG team event and said it was very good. I also played Pyroblast before in this deck and they were good, so try the switch and let us know how it goes, it could be good.
    Will do, for sure.

    Another thing I've already tried online to some good results, and will try and implement on paper next week is to fool around with bitterblossom, maybe 1-main and 1-side.
    The deck is not getting anybody off-guard anymore, so hate is coming our way, to the point that new angles of attack are awesome. Given we already play dark ritual and petal, and blossom has a 2-cmc, opening turns in which we get a discard and resolve a bitterblossom are quite common, and that runs away with the game all by itself (specially when people have tons of plowshares and terminus against us).

    I know it goes against the whole purpose and prime point of the deck, but it gives it even more flexibility and grind-power, so maybe it works.

  8. #168

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    So I've been doing a lot of off-the-wall testing with the Grixis Phoenix shell.

    One of the most interesting pieces I've come up with so far came from not being as satisfied with Dark Confidant as you guys. So; just for kicks; I swapped out Bob for 4x Accumulated Knowledge and found room for 2x Intuition.

    The idea being:
    - Accumulated Knowledge serves a similar role to Bob; but also triggers Phoenix
    - Intuition can do the cute fetch up 3x AK to refill your hand in a late game grindy spot
    - Intuition can act as Buried Alive copies 5/6

    The verdict is super middling on the AK package; but Intuition has grossly over-performed. There are times where you'll have a Young Pyro on board in a grindy game; you can fetch up 3 Cabal Therapy and just shred hands (and with a single card draw, trigger any birds you happen to have in the yard, too). Plus in a pinch it is just 3cmc instant speed "tutor target card" - although that's the most rarely used mode.

    It's just exceptionally versatile in this shell.

    Not really impressed with AK; but that's the origin of the experiment at least.

  9. #169
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by walked View Post
    So I've been doing a lot of off-the-wall testing with the Grixis Phoenix shell.

    One of the most interesting pieces I've come up with so far came from not being as satisfied with Dark Confidant as you guys. So; just for kicks; I swapped out Bob for 4x Accumulated Knowledge and found room for 2x Intuition.

    The idea being:
    - Accumulated Knowledge serves a similar role to Bob; but also triggers Phoenix
    - Intuition can do the cute fetch up 3x AK to refill your hand in a late game grindy spot
    - Intuition can act as Buried Alive copies 5/6

    The verdict is super middling on the AK package; but Intuition has grossly over-performed. There are times where you'll have a Young Pyro on board in a grindy game; you can fetch up 3 Cabal Therapy and just shred hands (and with a single card draw, trigger any birds you happen to have in the yard, too). Plus in a pinch it is just 3cmc instant speed "tutor target card" - although that's the most rarely used mode.

    It's just exceptionally versatile in this shell.

    Not really impressed with AK; but that's the origin of the experiment at least.
    Intuition in this deck feels similar to the Gifts Ungiven in esper gifts shells in modern, in which you bring the combo pieces and any choice by the opponent will lead to disaster.

    I LIKE IT. :D

  10. #170
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Cool deck. I only have one suggestion worth testing, have you tried Unmask vs combo? It’s quite good when I used to play in U/B decks. Could probably side out Bolts for it in some matchups.
    May your suffering equal your weakness
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  11. #171

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Not sure if anyone caught the 4color version on stream at SCG a few minutes ago; running Land Grant. Not sure how good it is; but deck looked pretty ridiculous. Pretty interested for a list.

  12. #172
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    I copied it using the cardboard live extension to twitch, truly great! I imagine it might feel unfair to post it before the tournament is over.. On the other hand it was available to anyone on the stream, so.. Let me know if you think I should remove it until the tournament is over. Here it is for now.

    Edit: I guess anyone can go back and watch the stream anyway, potentially using the cardboard live plugin too, so I guess there's not that much reason not to share it.

    Edit2: ah, changing my mind back and forth. I guess everyone curious got to read it, I'll put it back in 24 hours (unless someone else puts it up before then) to reduce chances of some opponent reading it in between rounds here.

    Edit3: here it is again.


    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    3 Force of Will
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    1 Thoughtseize
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Thought Scour
    4 Careful Study
    4 Manamorphose
    4 Entomb
    4 Arclight Phoenix
    3 Thing in the Ice
    2 Bloodghast
    4 Land Grant
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Underground Sea
    1 Island
    1 Volcanic Island
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Swamp
    1 Bayou
    SIDEBOARD

    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Assassin's Trophy
    2 Ancient Grudge
    1 Sentinel Tower
    4 Accumulated Knowledge
    1 Memory's Journey
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Thoughtseize
    Last edited by pettdan; 03-03-2019 at 05:00 PM.

  13. #173

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Still not a big fan of the small-ball plan with Entomb but Land Grant is spicy
    Land Grant -> Bayou Ritual Buried Alive sounds pretty hot but I don't know if this is too all-in (e.g. you cut lands for Land Grant and then your opponent FoWs your Land Grant and you just lose on the spot)
    I guess even if your opening hand is 1 Black land (or fetch) plus Land Grant then you can still go off on turn 1 with this setup, Land Grant doesn't have to be your only mana source

  14. #174
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Land Grant -> Bayou Ritual Buried Alive sounds pretty hot but I don't know if this is too all-in
    Except this list doesn't have any Ritual nor any Buried Alive

  15. #175
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    It's interesting alright!

    This is my gut reaction

    - smallballing Phoenixes generally isn't a winning play in the format. What I mean by that is discarding them to a looting effect and getting them back as incremental value, even if it works it's not a high power level play. This version at least goes a step further than some of the straight UR versions that popped up by playing Entomb too, but the original versions I tried also had Entomb, Manamorphose and Bloodghast but they were cut less for not working, but because their power level wasn't in line with the format. This deck is clearly taking enough of a different approach to those lists too though, as there's no Dark Ritual/Buried Alive, so maybe there's more merit.

    - Similarly to that, we tried Land Grant very briefly at the beginning and it was quickly dismissed. But maybe it was also because the shell was a lot less refined than it is now.

    - Having Force of Will I'm sure helps some matchups, the fact that the deck can/is playing it is nice. I don't know enough about the decks play patterns to know if the card disadvantage is too bad though, but I can see this deck having a slower average clock than Buried Alive variants too so you probably need countermagic.

    - AK sb plan is some next level stuff, I have no idea if it's terrible or genius, probably the latter! I can see this build having a hard time with control, so the AKs are a huge step to helping there.

    The caveat to all that is obviously I haven't played the build and I know the Buried version that I'm more familiar with is often misunderstood, so I don't want to pass too much judgment without trying it.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  16. #176

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by talpa View Post
    Except this list doesn't have any Ritual nor any Buried Alive
    I'm talking about a hypothetical build that does include all of those cards, because I think that Land Grant might be good but I also think that not playing Ritual/Buried in your phoenix deck is a mistake

  17. #177
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    I tried Land Grant in a Rit/Buried shell through a league last night, base BUG with Goyfs over YPs and a couple of Decays in the main, it felt horrible unfortunately.

    I would usually give it some more tries, but going by first impressions it's really not good. Simply put it's a land that can get discarded or countered. Vs Depths, Storm and Shadow both sides of this came out, it feels rotten revealing your hand then they just Daze it...and while it may seem like a tiny sample size and anecdotal, these are cards that a huge majority of the format plays, it'll happen a lot.

    So for that downside we're gaining a free spell, essentially raising the roof of the deck for more turn one potential. This is something I've been actively trying to more away from because the deck is better than being a Force Check deck. I very rarely go for turn ones if I have any kind of discard or cantrips to sculpt and clear the way, this is exactly why the deck is good, because we have this flexibility and control over the game. Since we found a strong shell, the main thing I want to work on is reign in the ceiling of the deck to maximise the floor and consistency. These are the features that make legacy decks great usually, not their ceiling unless its from shells with a huge amount of redundancy (like reanimator).
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  18. #178

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    So for that downside we're gaining a free spell, essentially raising the roof of the deck for more turn one potential. This is something I've been actively trying to more away from because the deck is better than being a Force Check deck. I very rarely go for turn ones if I have any kind of discard or cantrips to sculpt and clear the way, this is exactly why the deck is good, because we have this flexibility and control over the game. Since we found a strong shell, the main thing I want to work on is reign in the ceiling of the deck to maximise the floor and consistency. These are the features that make legacy decks great usually, not their ceiling unless its from shells with a huge amount of redundancy (like reanimator).
    These are the exact reasons I've been liking Intuition in my build; it gives you an insane degree of flexibility and a little additional consistency. In grindy games where you stick a Young Pyromancer mid-late game; it's basically a lights-out win the game draw in a single card.

    Give it a whirl :)

  19. #179
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    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by walked View Post
    These are the exact reasons I've been liking Intuition in my build; it gives you an insane degree of flexibility and a little additional consistency. In grindy games where you stick a Young Pyromancer mid-late game; it's basically a lights-out win the game draw in a single card.

    Give it a whirl :)
    OK, I'll try and get around to trying it soon! I can see the potential. I think at the beginning I may have zoned in on just fetching Phoenixes, but it is pretty gross with YP and Therapy.
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  20. #180

    Re: Grixis Phoenix

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    OK, I'll try and get around to trying it soon! I can see the potential. I think at the beginning I may have zoned in on just fetching Phoenixes, but it is pretty gross with YP and Therapy.
    So at my lgs, my friends and I were thinking of trying out collective brutality instead of bolt. Going to try testing thatbin the next week or so. What are your thoughts on that?

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