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Thread: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

  1. #1

    MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    For some weeks, I've been trying out if it's possible to build a classic mono white control deck that can keep up with the powerlevel of today's Legacy. My goal was not to resort to the Land Tax engine because first and foremost, I always thought that this sort of engine occupies too much deck space and is also somewhat unreliable, especially in times of Kolaghan's Command where artifacts in general are to be seen as rather vulnerable. I therefore had to look for different CA engines and value mechanisms that the deck now has plenty of.

    The major combo deck of today is arguably Show and Tell. White fortunately has access to the most efficient answers to such stratgies such as Oblivion Ring, Cast Out and Containment Priest, some of which are even maindeck-playable because of their flexibility. The old argument that the pure control strategy is unviable because of combo is therefore not unconditionally true anymore.

    The following list resembles the result of many attempts and approaches I made with different cards and I waited to open this for discussion until I had a list that could be considered at least halfway playable.

    Mono White Control 2019

    22 Plains

    3 Eternal Dragon
    4 Mind Stone

    4 Swords to Plowshares
    3 Ratchet Bomb
    3 Day of Judgment
    3 Oblivion Ring
    3 Cast Out
    3 Faith's Fetters

    3 Coercive Portal
    3 Pulse of the Fields
    2 Restoration Specialist

    3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 White Sun's Zenith

    SB
    4 Damping Sphere
    4 Pithing Needle
    4 Containment Priest
    3 Tormod's Crypt

    The list is designed to be prepared for every theoretically conceivable threat that could usually occur in the current state of the Format. The choices of removal was carefully contemplated and tested. I chose to divide my sweepers into Ratchet Bomb and "Wrath" because with sweepers it is important that you have ones of different CC/card type due to cards like Gaddock Teeg, Sanctum Prelate or Thorn of Amethyst. Bomb is also sometimes faster than Wrath and can also reasonably be used as "spot removal" if needed, especially since I can recur it with Restoration Specialst. The occasional slowness of R.Bomb is easily alleviated by Pulse of the Fields which is basically a white Time Walk if you want. Another card that might appear questionable is Faith's Fetters. This card is played because of the painful realization that you inevitably have to have some means to handle lands in Legacy if you want to control the game. Karakas, Azcanta, Volrath's Stronghold or Ugin's Eye can also ruin your day if they stay unanswered so it is necessary to stop their abilities. It is, in my point of view, generally not reasonable to play Wasteland in pure control decks because you are reliant on a strong manabase. Faith's Fetters thererfore fills this gap that Wasteland left and does a great job at it because it is in fact a universal answer that can "handle" pretty much everything else too.

    Since the format is rather disruptive right now and because some of the so called "best" decks right now are control decks themselves, I had to realize that some sort of recursion is necessary because you cannot expect your spells to resolve immediatly and that you have anticipate discard like Hymn too because it's quite popular right now. Therefore it contemplated different ways of recursion and ended up with Restoration Specialist which can both recur stuff and also create card advantage. It can even act as a pseudo card-draw engine in conjunction with a cycled Cast Out and Mind Stone. Mind Stone is played because the deck was somewhat unoccupied in the lower CC area and some acceleration was needed because of the rather high casting costs. It also increases consistency with it's cycling ability and by preventing manascrew. Eternal Dragon has similar purposes than Mind Stone but has the additional benefit of being a CA engine in itself and also of being a inevitable win condition against decks without Swords such as "Grixis Control". Aside from Dragon I got Elspeth and a random White Sun's Zenith which happened to be the most efficient win conditions I have tried out so far. The number of actual threats or win conditions this deck has may appear pretty low but against decks where this matters such as Miracles your opponent will have to spend his counters on your numerous answers to Jace or Coercive Portal anyways. The Portal is my primary draw engine. Yes, it's also an artifact but it can be recurred with R.Specalist and after all, not every deck plays K.Command. It's basically a more vulnerable Phyrexian Arena but without the lifeloss.

    As mentioned earlier I've tried out quite a lot of things with Mono White Control lately and I would like comment on a few other more or less viable cards so that the discussion hopefully is somewhat structured.

    Endless Atlas - the printing of this card was the reason I began to work on MWC in the first place. If might appear good on paper because of the cheap cost and all but I can assure you that having to pay 2 mana to draw cards is too inefficient and actually not even feasible in this format.

    Sacred Mesa If is appealing that it can be theoretically recurred wth Specialist and Sun Titan and the card appears efficient on surface but in practice it actually has a perceived mana cost of 7 as it's only effective from 7 mana onwards and that's just too slow. I don't consider it completely unplayable though.

    Dawn of Hope together with Renewed Faith and Genju of the Fields: This was supposed to be both card draw and win condition but it turned out that it didn't fullfill neither role efficiently enough. Paying 4 mana for a single token is just too much although it's enchantment type and low casting cost were its strengths.

    Blessed Alliance It's definitely a solid choice but too much 1for1 removal isn't desirable and will get you dead draws in a lot of matchups. If you played a list with a different approach I would recommend it though because it can also handle True-Name Nemesis.

    Gideon, Ally of Zendikar I cannot tell yet if Elspeth or Gideon is the better choice but from experience Elspeth plays better in defensive decks like this one while Gideon is a more aggressive cards. Elspeth also synergizes better with the rest of the deck by making your other stuff indestructible.

    There is plenty of more stuff I tried out but ultimately dismissed for now. As I said, the above list is the result of various attempts and resembles what I think is best prepared to handle the matchups one must expect currently. If you like to play control, disregard netdecking and also hate how expensive cards have become, Mono White control can definitely by a strategy you can turn to.

    I hope that some will find interest in this and appreciate any suggestions or criticism.

  2. #2

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Are you familiar with the deck in the established section The Mighty Quinn?

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...y-Quinn/page68
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  3. #3

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Are you familiar with the deck in the established section The Mighty Quinn?

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...y-Quinn/page68
    Not too much unfortunately but Scrying Sheets is definitely something yet to try out but I'm sceptical about its viability now without SDT or other means of library manipulation. And I will certainly not touch Crystal Ball ;) . How has Scrying Sheets been in your experience without Top? I saw you tried out playing it without Top so I curious if it's worth trying it out.

    I consider this deck as distinct enough from both Parfait and Quinn since it builds on a different engine and generally seems to play differently, i.e. more reactively and also has other means of winning the game eventually. This supposed to be a pure control deck rather than a mixture of combo and control.

  4. #4

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Isn't Wrath strictly better than Day of Judgment?

    Bye

  5. #5

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by jafar View Post
    Isn't Wrath strictly better than Day of Judgment?

    Bye
    No one therapies or mages doj. Its a meta thing.

    @erd: I subbed in sylvan library for top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  6. #6

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Ok but with Wrath creatures cannot regenerate.

    It's a corner case but can be useful.

    Just my 2 cents.

    Bye

  7. #7

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Back when people used to Play Thrun, the last Troll I would have argued that Wrath is indeed a necessity but he seems to have fallen off in popularity. This, Surgical Extraction and the reasons the user "kinda" mentioned is why I Play DoJ instead of Wrath. And it's also a bit cheaper moneywise...

    Given that you seem to have tested it fairly recently I wonder how good Scrying Sheets was in your experience and if you consider it worthwhile to try it out.

  8. #8

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    Given that you seem to have tested it fairly recently I wonder how good Scrying Sheets was in your experience and if you consider it worthwhile to try it out.
    Scrying sheets is excellent. Even eot without top or library it ensures you draw gas. It works well with dragon which you're running for some reason.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  9. #9

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Erdvermampfa View Post
    Back when people used to Play Thrun, the last Troll I would have argued that Wrath is indeed a necessity but he seems to have fallen off in popularity. This, Surgical Extraction and the reasons the user "kinda" mentioned is why I Play DoJ instead of Wrath. And it's also a bit cheaper moneywise...

    Given that you seem to have tested it fairly recently I wonder how good Scrying Sheets was in your experience and if you consider it worthwhile to try it out.
    Golgari Charm sees play tho
    "You either die a Onesto-Player, or live long enough to see yourself become a Dredger"

  10. #10
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    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    This deck is sooo spicy, I love it! It's cheap too, I'll sleeve it up for some local games if I have time.
    I'd love a sideboard of mostly 1-ofs for some added extra-spice.

    Maybe a split of 2 Wraths/1 DoJ?
    4 leyline of sanctity in the board seem good, what are the needles for anyway?

    Edit: 1 Endless Horizon in the main? What about good old Skull of Orm? Yeeeeeeah

  11. #11
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    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    I figured Smothering Tide would be in here, it seems quite good with a mana-denial engine like Wasteland/Ghost Quarter/Leonin Arbiter. Other recent cards to consider are Remorseful Cleric and Thalia, Heretic Cather (original Thalia seems a little too restricting to you.) Suppresion Field is a non-bo with Scrying Sheets (the best engine for this deck IMHO.)

    For me, I would be very tempted to Ancient Tomb + Chalice of the Void, Scrying Sheets + Dark Depths (it's a snow land...) + Expedition Map + Thespian's Stage. Even copying your Scrying Sheets seems legit.

    Truly I think Scrying Sheets + Smothering Tide seems like a really decent combination for legacy.
    I am counted amongst legions of the unrighteous
    who dread not being immersed in pits of fire

  12. #12

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I figured Smothering Tide would be in here, it seems quite good with a mana-denial engine like Wasteland/Ghost Quarter/Leonin Arbiter. Other recent cards to consider are Remorseful Cleric and Thalia, Heretic Cather (original Thalia seems a little too restricting to you.) Suppresion Field is a non-bo with Scrying Sheets (the best engine for this deck IMHO.)

    For me, I would be very tempted to Ancient Tomb + Chalice of the Void, Scrying Sheets + Dark Depths (it's a snow land...) + Expedition Map + Thespian's Stage. Even copying your Scrying Sheets seems legit.

    Truly I think Scrying Sheets + Smothering Tide seems like a really decent combination for legacy.
    I'm quite interested in this smothering tide card.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  13. #13
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    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    No orims chant or silence anywhere. I feel like you are still folding to combo. Creatures are the easiest thing for white to deal with and that seems to be all you do.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  14. #14

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by Weapon X View Post
    No orims chant or silence anywhere. I feel like you are still folding to combo. Creatures are the easiest thing for white to deal with and that seems to be all you do.
    Eh...reanimator/sneak and skill/depths win with creatures. No humility or noetic scales seems odd .
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  15. #15
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    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    I'm quite interested in this smothering tide card.
    Smothering Tithe, I misread the card, lol. Basically whenever opponent's draw a card they have to pay or you get an artifact that sacrifices to make 1 mana of any color. Brainstorm gives you a free Black Lotus unless they pay 3 mana for it, lol. It isn't card draw but it's an absurd mana advantage that could snow-ball quickly. Cards like Secure the Wastes, Entreat the Angels, and the old school Decree of Justice all get pretty absurd, for very little opportunity cost. Even Elspeth, Sun's Champion becomes reasonable if you start including Ancient Tombs. Mana denial doesn't even give them the chance to pay for their extra draws, and at the very least you get one free mana every draw step from your opponent. Because it's an artifact it doesn't empty from your mana pool either. It's actually very, very powerful if utilized in the right shell. I mean, dropping big bombs is reasonable if you can lock your opponent up for a few turns.

    https://scryfall.com/card/rna/22/smothering-tithe

    EDIT: Fighting the combo matchups should be ridiculously easy, if not perfect. Enlightened Tutor, Ethersworn Canonist (storm, elves), Leyline of Sanctity (storm, burn, discard), Oblivion Ring (Sneak/Show), Humility (Sneak/Show, Depths). Orim's Chant/Silence is an option, but only buys you time. Unless you follow it up with big pressure you can still lose.

    Super rough list:

    4x Leonin Arbiter
    6x Open

    4x Enlightened Tutor
    4x Mox Diamond
    3x Smothering Tithe
    2x Expedition Map
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    3x Wrath of God
    1x Humility
    1x Oblivion Ring
    1x Crucible of Worlds
    2x Karn, Scion of Urza

    4x Wasteland
    2x Ghost Quarter
    4x Scrying Sheets
    3x Dark Depths
    2x Thespian's Stage
    11x Snow-Covered Plains
    1x Maze of Ith
    1x Karakas


    From here you have 6 open slots to tweak as you need to, including something huge. I debated Chalice, but once you have the Scrying Sheets engine and Dark Depths you just can't afford the Ancient Tombs. Those 6 slots should be a way to maximize the mana advantage you get from Smothering Tithe. Karn allows those artifacts to boost his ultimate in a big way. Mox Diamond makes sense for acceleration because of the necessary land counts for Waste/GQ/Sheets engine requiring around 25 lands. Call me crazy, but Mobilization might be a reasonable 1-of to ETutor for that allows you to sink that mana into a ton of soldiers. It might not be crazy to generate a ton of mana with Tithe and slow-roll Depths either, although that would be magical Christmas land.
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  16. #16
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    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    Eh...reanimator/sneak and skill/depths win with creatures. No humility or noetic scales seems odd .
    Chant still deals with creatures too, albeit for a turn. It’s more that 70% (arbitrary number) of a given deck doesn’t need to revolve around removal of creatures. That said I am surprised at the lack of “ramp” for the party starts at 4.
    The Parfait Meta-Game

  17. #17

    Re: MWC - Mono White Control 2019

    Thank you all for commenting!

    You guys suggested some interesting cards, especially the Skull of Orm. I don't know yet if I want to go full jank with this deck but recurring cycled Cast Outs seems great xD.

    On a more serious note, I guess I will have to try out the Scrying Sheets engine since many of you seem to consider that good. Personally I haven't had much experience with it but I could imagine it being good together with Crucible of Worlds (which you would probably want in format full of Wastelands) and Mouth of Ronom for infinite colorless removal.

    Mr.Safety's suggestions all remind me more of Staxx which is of course legit but imo a different approach. I honestly don't see the appeal of this new Smothering Tithe though since at 4 Mana any further mana is more or less abundant. Imagine that Black lotus cost 4 instead of 0. However I'm still interested how your approach played out for you so keep us up to date.

    I will simply have to see how things further play out. My goal for now is to test the Scrying Sheets engine as well as Knight of the White Orchid for additional ramp and an early blocker.

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