For some weeks, I've been trying out if it's possible to build a classic mono white control deck that can keep up with the powerlevel of today's Legacy. My goal was not to resort to the Land Tax engine because first and foremost, I always thought that this sort of engine occupies too much deck space and is also somewhat unreliable, especially in times of Kolaghan's Command where artifacts in general are to be seen as rather vulnerable. I therefore had to look for different CA engines and value mechanisms that the deck now has plenty of.
The major combo deck of today is arguably Show and Tell. White fortunately has access to the most efficient answers to such stratgies such as Oblivion Ring, Cast Out and Containment Priest, some of which are even maindeck-playable because of their flexibility. The old argument that the pure control strategy is unviable because of combo is therefore not unconditionally true anymore.
The following list resembles the result of many attempts and approaches I made with different cards and I waited to open this for discussion until I had a list that could be considered at least halfway playable.
Mono White Control 2019
22 Plains
3 Eternal Dragon
4 Mind Stone
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Ratchet Bomb
3 Day of Judgment
3 Oblivion Ring
3 Cast Out
3 Faith's Fetters
3 Coercive Portal
3 Pulse of the Fields
2 Restoration Specialist
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 White Sun's Zenith
SB
4 Damping Sphere
4 Pithing Needle
4 Containment Priest
3 Tormod's Crypt
The list is designed to be prepared for every theoretically conceivable threat that could usually occur in the current state of the Format. The choices of removal was carefully contemplated and tested. I chose to divide my sweepers into Ratchet Bomb and "Wrath" because with sweepers it is important that you have ones of different CC/card type due to cards like Gaddock Teeg, Sanctum Prelate or Thorn of Amethyst. Bomb is also sometimes faster than Wrath and can also reasonably be used as "spot removal" if needed, especially since I can recur it with Restoration Specialst. The occasional slowness of R.Bomb is easily alleviated by Pulse of the Fields which is basically a white Time Walk if you want. Another card that might appear questionable is Faith's Fetters. This card is played because of the painful realization that you inevitably have to have some means to handle lands in Legacy if you want to control the game. Karakas, Azcanta, Volrath's Stronghold or Ugin's Eye can also ruin your day if they stay unanswered so it is necessary to stop their abilities. It is, in my point of view, generally not reasonable to play Wasteland in pure control decks because you are reliant on a strong manabase. Faith's Fetters thererfore fills this gap that Wasteland left and does a great job at it because it is in fact a universal answer that can "handle" pretty much everything else too.
Since the format is rather disruptive right now and because some of the so called "best" decks right now are control decks themselves, I had to realize that some sort of recursion is necessary because you cannot expect your spells to resolve immediatly and that you have anticipate discard like Hymn too because it's quite popular right now. Therefore it contemplated different ways of recursion and ended up with Restoration Specialist which can both recur stuff and also create card advantage. It can even act as a pseudo card-draw engine in conjunction with a cycled Cast Out and Mind Stone. Mind Stone is played because the deck was somewhat unoccupied in the lower CC area and some acceleration was needed because of the rather high casting costs. It also increases consistency with it's cycling ability and by preventing manascrew. Eternal Dragon has similar purposes than Mind Stone but has the additional benefit of being a CA engine in itself and also of being a inevitable win condition against decks without Swords such as "Grixis Control". Aside from Dragon I got Elspeth and a random White Sun's Zenith which happened to be the most efficient win conditions I have tried out so far. The number of actual threats or win conditions this deck has may appear pretty low but against decks where this matters such as Miracles your opponent will have to spend his counters on your numerous answers to Jace or Coercive Portal anyways. The Portal is my primary draw engine. Yes, it's also an artifact but it can be recurred with R.Specalist and after all, not every deck plays K.Command. It's basically a more vulnerable Phyrexian Arena but without the lifeloss.
As mentioned earlier I've tried out quite a lot of things with Mono White Control lately and I would like comment on a few other more or less viable cards so that the discussion hopefully is somewhat structured.
Endless Atlas - the printing of this card was the reason I began to work on MWC in the first place. If might appear good on paper because of the cheap cost and all but I can assure you that having to pay 2 mana to draw cards is too inefficient and actually not even feasible in this format.
Sacred Mesa If is appealing that it can be theoretically recurred wth Specialist and Sun Titan and the card appears efficient on surface but in practice it actually has a perceived mana cost of 7 as it's only effective from 7 mana onwards and that's just too slow. I don't consider it completely unplayable though.
Dawn of Hope together with Renewed Faith and Genju of the Fields: This was supposed to be both card draw and win condition but it turned out that it didn't fullfill neither role efficiently enough. Paying 4 mana for a single token is just too much although it's enchantment type and low casting cost were its strengths.
Blessed Alliance It's definitely a solid choice but too much 1for1 removal isn't desirable and will get you dead draws in a lot of matchups. If you played a list with a different approach I would recommend it though because it can also handle True-Name Nemesis.
Gideon, Ally of Zendikar I cannot tell yet if Elspeth or Gideon is the better choice but from experience Elspeth plays better in defensive decks like this one while Gideon is a more aggressive cards. Elspeth also synergizes better with the rest of the deck by making your other stuff indestructible.
There is plenty of more stuff I tried out but ultimately dismissed for now. As I said, the above list is the result of various attempts and resembles what I think is best prepared to handle the matchups one must expect currently. If you like to play control, disregard netdecking and also hate how expensive cards have become, Mono White control can definitely by a strategy you can turn to.
I hope that some will find interest in this and appreciate any suggestions or criticism.
Are you familiar with the deck in the established section The Mighty Quinn?
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...y-Quinn/page68
Originally Posted by Laser Brains
Not too much unfortunately but Scrying Sheets is definitely something yet to try out but I'm sceptical about its viability now without SDT or other means of library manipulation. And I will certainly not touch Crystal Ball ;) . How has Scrying Sheets been in your experience without Top? I saw you tried out playing it without Top so I curious if it's worth trying it out.
I consider this deck as distinct enough from both Parfait and Quinn since it builds on a different engine and generally seems to play differently, i.e. more reactively and also has other means of winning the game eventually. This supposed to be a pure control deck rather than a mixture of combo and control.
Isn't Wrath strictly better than Day of Judgment?
Bye
No one therapies or mages doj. Its a meta thing.
@erd: I subbed in sylvan library for top.
Ok but with Wrath creatures cannot regenerate.
It's a corner case but can be useful.
Just my 2 cents.
Bye
A few points about:
It is obviously very good against counterspells when you want reslove your bomb but it has so many aplications.
One of the most common plays will be:
- in your opponents upkeep to prevent him from playing Ponders, discard, activating plainswalkers and fetchlands
- In response to Snapcaster Mage’s trigger
- In response to trigger of Entreat the Angels or Terminus
- If opponent has an active Mother of Runes or Karakas and Thalia in play so you can Swords his creatures as you please; in respons to SG Commander to prevent sacrificing goblins for damage; against Walking Ballista; in respons to your opponent activating Mystic to prevent equiping Sword of Fire and Ice or Jitte; to prevent Batterskull bounce in lategame when Disenchanting;
- To force Infect player to make the first move
- To laugh at Phyrexian Dreadnaught (you dont really need Abeyance for that)
- When opponent is casting Monastery Mentor, Young Pyromancer you can then cleanly answer it with Swords to Plowshares
- In respons to Sneak Attack activation (often they have just one R mana), in respons to Show and Tell or when opponent casts reanimation spell then you can safely Swords to Plowshares Grizzly; doesent work on Emrakul obviously
- Total blowout against storm, TES, High Tide, Tin Finns (probably too slow at two mana but after board with Leylines and Surgicals golden)
- Close to timewalk against lands; same against dredge early game
- To protect Gideon against his Swords to Plowshares, Karakas (spicy when stp is his only protection of Jace)
- Saving Eternal Dragon against Nihil Spellbomb or Surgical in your upkeep
- Making your Wrath of God safe when facing vials
- EE, Deed, Stifle, Brightling and twenty others are really akward
...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by Koplinchen; 02-14-2019 at 05:36 AM.
Hello, sorry for the late reponse.
It's nice to hear that you did well with the deck. Your descriptions really show that you put a lot thought into your list and that you have tested them as well. I can't contribute too much right now because I can't play that much but I was able to play a list very similiar to yours for a bit online and I liked it a lot. Palace Jailer in particular has been a very positive surprise to me, I think we can build on that card a bit more.
You don't have to sell me on Abeyance because I'm absolutely with you about how useful and versatile it is. I was initially comparing it to Orim's Chant since that is cheaper and can also prevent your opponent from becoming the monarch for a turn but the ability part and the cantrip think outweigh this. Why not increase it to 4 if you haven't been too satisfied with Mana Tithe anyways (which I can totally understand, these seem rather out of place)?
One problem you mentioned was that despite all the draw and E.Dragons you sometimes didn't draw enough lands. I've also had this issue of not even drawing 2 lands for cycling or cantripping and so getting stuck on 1 land with otherwise perfect hands. This is part of the reason why I liked Cast Out so much since it's a very cheap filter card and thus helps to make the deck more consistent and reliable. Together with T.Inspector you'd get 8 virtual one drops which makes the deck a lot faster and efficient in my experience. However it won't work with Cleansing of course so I guess the decision is to be made between O-Ring-like cards and Cleansing in the role of noncreature removal. The O-Ring cards are at least rather efficient in dealing with Planeswalkers which according to you seem to have been a problem (?).
One last thing I was wondering about are the Unexpectedly Absents. How good have these been for you? My concern is that it's only a temporary solution if you don't cast it in response to a fetchland or Field of Ruin. Don't you think that Council's Judgements would have been better?
The Sword/Path doesn't seem like a terrible idea either because your removal has at least some use then in noncreature matchups.
At this point I'm more listening to you and relying on your assessments because like I said I was very pleasantly surprised with your decklist. It played better than most of my approaches I could come up with so far and I'm really looking forward to further improve the deck.
See/read yall soon!
Excellent post, I always enjoyed running abeyance in the mighty quinn/sylvan quinn. Don't forget it's incredible on isochron scepter. Shuts down planes walkers and sorceries then protects your bombs when you need it to. Playing it on your opponents turn two in their upkeep stops fetches and can be a pseudo time walk vs a lot of decks. Small critique...don't think it does anything vs sneak attack. It can't counter anything.A few points about:
It is obviously very good against counterspells when you want reslove your bomb but it has so many aplications.
One of the most common plays will be:
- in your opponents upkeep to prevent him from playing Ponders, discard, activating plainswalkers and fetchlands
- In response to Snapcaster Mage’s trigger
- In response to trigger of Entreat the Angels or Terminus
- If opponent has an active Mother of Runes or Karakas and Thalia in play so you can Swords his creatures as you please; in respons to SG Commander to prevent sacrificing goblins for damage; against Walking Ballista; in respons to your opponent activating Mystic to prevent equiping Sword of Fire and Ice or Jitte; to prevent Batterskull bounce in lategame when Disenchanting;
- To force Infect player to make the first move
- To laugh at Phyrexian Dreadnaught (you dont really need Abeyance for that)
- When opponent is casting Monastery Mentor, Young Pyromancer you can then cleanly answer it with Swords to Plowshares
- In respons to Sneak Attack activation (often they have just one R mana), in respons to Show and Tell or when opponent casts reanimation spell then you can safely Swords to Plowshares Grizzly; doesent work on Emrakul obviously
- Total blowout against storm, TES, High Tide, Tin Finns (probably too slow at two mana but after board with Leylines and Surgicals golden)
- Close to timewalk against lands; same against dredge early game
- To protect Gideon against his Swords to Plowshares, Karakas (spicy when stp is his only protection of Jace)
- Saving Eternal Dragon against Nihil Spellbomb or Surgical in your upkeep
- Making your Wrath of God safe when facing vials
- EE, Deed, Stifle, Brightling and twenty others are really akward
...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also if you're list is running Scrying sheets feel free to post in the mighty Quinn thread. Would be nice to get a bump.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...y-Quinn/page68
.
Hello,
Nice to see a mono white control thread.
I have been working on a project for several months that I'm sharing today.
The path I took is different as it is a Control - Aggro deck and the results are pretty encouraging.
Mono white - Angels - by Ralf
14 Plains
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Field of Ruin
1 Karakas
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Bruna, the Fading Light
1 Lyra Dawnbringer
2 Palace Jailer
2 Gisela, the Broken Blade
2 Baneslayer Angel
3 Angel of Sanctions
3 Archangel of Tithes
3 Eternal Dragon
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Tithe
2 Dawn Charm
4 Abeyance
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
4 Phyrexian Furnace
SB: 1 Containment Priest
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Sanctum Prelate
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 1 Porphyry Nodes
SB: 1 Council's Judgment
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 xXx (currently using a shining shoal)
This deck is pretty well tuned for the actual meta. Its resiliency is above average.
The idea (as expressed here) is to make land drops every turn and get to a point where all your threats must be answered.
Each creature has been thoroughly chosen:
Archangel of Tithes -> usually hinders long enough aggro deck so that you can turn the tides
Angel of Sanctions -> Oblivion ring on a stick. The embalm ability is ice on the cake. It cannot be countered except for stifle.
Baneslayer + Lyra + Gisela -> beatdowns. Period
Phyrexian furnace -> this is not for GRV (but yes it happens...). I picked it up because it messes with so many game plans for so many decks.
Dawn charm -> usually buys you a turn or can save one creature. Sometimes you get to screw a nasty discard spell.
Bruna could be something else. You don't get to cast it every game (7 mana you know) but if you do and pair it Gisela...well Oh boy...
Phyrexian revoker were Sorcerous spyglass for a long time (4) but I came across Storm and without Revoker you cannot expect to win G1. Abeyance is a very nice card but can't do shit vs 8+ discard spells.
The deck is soft to discard (as many control decks) justifying the inclusion of 4 Leyline in SB.
SB is unfinished yet as it takes a very long time to test against every Tiers 1/2 decks in the Legacy scene but I'll eventually get there.
If you are willing to give it a try, then happy testing !
Ralf
Last edited by Ralf; 02-16-2019 at 06:17 AM.
Legacy & Homebrew **ONLY**
Brown Stax
Rainbow SWAT
Dimir Mill
Morph my Ride
Wally Wallah
Corona Syndrome
Isn't Relic of Progenitus just better than Phyrexian Furnace?
Not if you want to avoid getting your own E.Dragon or Angel of Sanctions (cool card btw) exiled.
The angel list doesn't even look that bad in my view tbh and can certainly stands its ground against other fair decks...
As for Koplinchen's list I'm currently reconsidering the Mind Stones. The ramp didn't feel too necessary and it's also not too good with Planar Cleansing. It doesn't fit into the curve too well either but I'm still testing.
Hi Ralf, I think this deck is for a different thread. I would try Ancient Tomb, Chalice of the Void, Tinisphere, Stoneforge Mystic if I were you. As you present the deck I think it is not good. I know we are talking mono W control here so we are not really talking T1 or even T1,5 here but we want to have fun and win at least some games and I think this angels deck does nothing. Good luck!
Well, I do have a few records of sanctioned events and sideboard tables.
Yes we are talking about MWC and not of any other stompy decks outta there.
I guess it is for another thread.
Good luck with your expectations :p
Legacy & Homebrew **ONLY**
Brown Stax
Rainbow SWAT
Dimir Mill
Morph my Ride
Wally Wallah
Corona Syndrome
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