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Thread: War of the Spark

  1. #621
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    So the story basically is that Bolas gets imprisoned and Gideon and Domri get killed?
    As it seems Gideon somehow sacrificed himself to save Liliana.
    I haven't seen a real concrete evidence of Domri's demise or of any other planeswalker (except Gideon).
    I'm against "Game of Thrones"-like MTG, but I didn't really like Domri, so it would be fine with me if he would be gone.

    Question is in what state Liliana will be after this without the power of her contract, but still with the burden of the Chainveil, and the lot of good she's doing lately.

  2. #622

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by joven View Post
    As it seems Gideon somehow sacrificed himself to save Liliana.
    I haven't seen a real concrete evidence of Domri's demise or of any other planeswalker (except Gideon).
    I'm against "Game of Thrones"-like MTG, but I didn't really like Domri, so it would be fine with me if he would be gone.

    Question is in what state Liliana will be after this without the power of her contract, but still with the burden of the Chainveil, and the lot of good she's doing lately.
    Liliana is the best planeswalker to sacrifice yourself to. I bet we will see a Gideon Zombie necromanced into a new set by Liliana.

    Quote Originally Posted by joven View Post
    As it seems Gideon somehow sacrificed himself to save Liliana.
    I haven't seen a real concrete evidence of Domri's demise or of any other planeswalker (except Gideon).
    I'm against "Game of Thrones"-like MTG, but I didn't really like Domri, so it would be fine with me if he would be gone.

    Question is in what state Liliana will be after this without the power of her contract, but still with the burden of the Chainveil, and the lot of good she's doing lately.
    They should have turned Domri into Reek

  3. #623

    Re: War of the Spark

    Bolas should have killed them all and the massive extinguishing of sparks should have alerted Urza wherever he fucked off to that it was time to get his poop in a group and start laying smackdowns on some dragon ass. Or Bolas vs. the Praetors in the ultimate showdown for the multiverse. Then wizards can just retcon the shit out of everything and start fresh with Jace as the all-mighty godhead of the multiverse forever and ever, amen.
    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Liliana is the best planeswalker to sacrifice yourself to. I bet we will see a Gideon Zombie necromanced into a new set by Liliana.



    They should have turned Domri into Reek


    Just replace the orb with poor Domri's severed dingus.
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  4. #624
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    Re: War of the Spark

    If nothing else, resurrecting Urza and Mishra is something they could tap into when they run out of other ideas.
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  5. #625
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by joven View Post
    Question is in what state Liliana will be after this without the power of her contract, but still with the burden of the Chainveil, and the lot of good she's doing lately.
    If I remember the spoilers correctly (which also spoiled Domri's death and how Gideon died), then Liliana is almost back to oldwalker powers for some reason and then fucked off.

    Domri died by getting his spark Eternal'd:



    Same reason why Bolas lost his spark because Liliana took control of the white and black zombie gods.
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  6. #626

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by joven View Post
    As it seems Gideon somehow sacrificed himself to save Liliana.
    I haven't seen a real concrete evidence of Domri's demise or of any other planeswalker (except Gideon).
    I'm against "Game of Thrones"-like MTG, but I didn't really like Domri, so it would be fine with me if he would be gone.

    Question is in what state Liliana will be after this without the power of her contract, but still with the burden of the Chainveil, and the lot of good she's doing lately.
    This isn't Game of Thrones, there characters die as consequence in the middle of their arc. Characters tripping over themselves to die as heroes is more Call of Duty, or Halo Reach

  7. #627

    Re: War of the Spark

    Are there some shenanigans to be explored with Ral, Storm Conduit and Narset's Reversal? I can't quite sort it out.
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  8. #628

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by kirkusjones View Post
    Are there some shenanigans to be explored with Ral, Storm Conduit and Narset's Reversal? I can't quite sort it out.
    If you copy a copy spell, then you can go infinite with Ral, Narset's reversal is a copy effect, so it will work for that along with Expansion/Explosion but it doesn't bring you from 3 to 2 cards.

    One way to get a "2 card" combo with Ral in standard is to activate his -2 (copy the next spell you cast) and then cast Finale of Promise with X>=2 and then play stack games with Doublecast and Narset's Reversal from the graveyard. In Legacy and Modern there are more options for copy effects.

  9. #629

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    If I remember the spoilers correctly (which also spoiled Domri's death and how Gideon died), then Liliana is almost back to oldwalker powers for some reason and then fucked off.

    Domri died by getting his spark Eternal'd:



    Same reason why Bolas lost his spark because Liliana took control of the white and black zombie gods.
    So domri is so weak he gets killed by a 2/3 zombie?
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  10. #630

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by kirkusjones View Post
    Are there some shenanigans to be explored with Ral, Storm Conduit and Narset's Reversal? I can't quite sort it out.
    The only shenanigans is the obvious one where you get a trigger both for casting and resolution of Reversal.
    If you were looking for infinite shenanigans reversal is the one fork I can think of off hand that can't go infinite with Ral, because bouncing the spell means it won't be there for infinite copies.

  11. #631
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    So domri is so weak he gets killed by a 2/3 zombie?
    Nope, the Eternals have some kind of special ability that harvests the spark of the user on touch, killing the Planeswalker in the process. That was the preparation for the Elder Spell that allowed Bolas to ascend into godhood.

    Doesn't explain why it didn't kill him when he lost his spark due to the Eternal gods.
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  12. #632

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Nope, the Eternals have some kind of special ability that harvests the spark of the user on touch, killing the Planeswalker in the process. That was the preparation for the Elder Spell that allowed Bolas to ascend into godhood.

    Doesn't explain why it didn't kill him when he lost his spark due to the Eternal gods.
    Good job, Eternal!
    *Pats zombie on the back*
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  13. #633
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    If you copy a copy spell, then you can go infinite with Ral, Narset's reversal is a copy effect, so it will work for that along with Expansion/Explosion but it doesn't bring you from 3 to 2 cards.

    One way to get a "2 card" combo with Ral in standard is to activate his -2 (copy the next spell you cast) and then cast Finale of Promise with X>=2 and then play stack games with Doublecast and Narset's Reversal from the graveyard. In Legacy and Modern there are more options for copy effects.
    I dont understand why you need finale of promise at all. Also, maybe this is only two cards

    If you -2 and cast Doublecast that starts the chain then after one doublecast resolves cast Narset's Reversal targeting the one remaining on the stack. That will trigger the double cast of Narset's Reversal and you can use that to continuously copy narsets.

    Start Sequence
    -2 from ral (let this resolve)

    Stack Phase one
    Doublecast (cast from hand)
    Doublecast (triggered from ral)

    Stack Phase two (after Doublecast triggered from ral resolves, cast narset's reversal)
    Doublecast
    Narset's Reversal -> targeting doublecast
    Copy of Narset's Reversal triggered from Doublecast in phase one - targeting Narset's Reversal

    So every resolution of the Copy of Narset's Reversal will create another copy and ral will trigger 1 damage every time.


    Did I miss something?
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  14. #634

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    I dont understand why you need finale of promise at all. Also, maybe this is only two cards

    If you -2 and cast Doublecast that starts the chain then after one doublecast resolves cast Narset's Reversal targeting the one remaining on the stack. That will trigger the double cast of Narset's Reversal and you can use that to continuously copy narsets.

    Start Sequence
    -2 from ral (let this resolve)

    Stack Phase one
    Doublecast (cast from hand)
    Doublecast (triggered from ral)

    Stack Phase two (after Doublecast triggered from ral resolves, cast narset's reversal)
    Doublecast
    Narset's Reversal -> targeting doublecast
    Copy of Narset's Reversal triggered from Doublecast in phase one - targeting Narset's Reversal

    So every resolution of the Copy of Narset's Reversal will create another copy and ral will trigger 1 damage every time.


    Did I miss something?
    Dont you end up with some doublecasts on the bottom of the stack (they dont double copies). So eventually you need to cast something from your hand again!?

    Regardless imho best way with ral is just a bunch of normal spells + grapeshot. Copy a random cantrip, get to like storm 7 and grapeshot for the rest. Or the old "remand your storm spell" for double grapeshot thing.

    Storm 6 = 18 dmg
    Storm 7 = 23 dmg

    Why go infinite when rals static basically halfs your storm count to win.
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  15. #635

    Re: War of the Spark

    The infinite combo is standard-legal, I believe. Which means there could be a weird storm-ish deck in standard, which is about the only thing that could ever entice me to play standard again short of an astral slide or dredge reprint.
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  16. #636

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    I dont understand why you need finale of promise at all. Also, maybe this is only two cards

    If you -2 and cast Doublecast that starts the chain then after one doublecast resolves cast Narset's Reversal targeting the one remaining on the stack. That will trigger the double cast of Narset's Reversal and you can use that to continuously copy narsets.

    Start Sequence
    -2 from ral (let this resolve)

    Stack Phase one
    Doublecast (cast from hand)
    Doublecast (triggered from ral)

    Stack Phase two (after Doublecast triggered from ral resolves, cast narset's reversal)
    Doublecast
    Narset's Reversal -> targeting doublecast
    Copy of Narset's Reversal triggered from Doublecast in phase one - targeting Narset's Reversal

    So every resolution of the Copy of Narset's Reversal will create another copy and ral will trigger 1 damage every time.


    Did I miss something?
    Yes. When the reversal copy resolves, and puts a copy of itself on the stack it also bounced the original reversal. So the copy-cooy can't target narsets reversal, as a spell can't target itself and the one you wanted to Target is in your hand.

  17. #637

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    ...

    Did I miss something?
    I was trying to get it down to starting the combo with Ral and one card from the hand.

    The other thing (and I missed this too) is that whenever Narset's Reversal resolves, the total number of spells on the stack is decreased by 1. (+1 from the copy effect, -1 because a spell resolves, and -1 because Reversal also removes a spell from the stack.) So there aren't any indefinite loops with Narset's reversal copies.

    As a 3-card combo, it does work with Expansion//Explosion.

  18. #638
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Yes. When the reversal copy resolves, and puts a copy of itself on the stack it also bounced the original reversal. So the copy-cooy can't target narsets reversal, as a spell can't target itself and the one you wanted to Target is in your hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    I was trying to get it down to starting the combo with Ral and one card from the hand.

    The other thing (and I missed this too) is that whenever Narset's Reversal resolves, the total number of spells on the stack is decreased by 1. (+1 from the copy effect, -1 because a spell resolves, and -1 because Reversal also removes a spell from the stack.) So there aren't any indefinite loops with Narset's reversal copies.

    As a 3-card combo, it does work with Expansion//Explosion.

    I was worried about the interaction about bouncing the card to the hand and just now looked it up in the rules. if the spell leaves the stack (card physically leaves the stack) it wont actually be there to resolve.

    No big deal because Expansion//Explosion exists but i was curious.

    @rufus, I dont think you'll be able to get it down to ral + 1 mainly because spells that copy other spells need something to copy first.
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  19. #639

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    ..
    @rufus, I dont think you'll be able to get it down to ral + 1 mainly because spells that copy other spells need something to copy first.
    In legacy , you could certainly make it happen with Ral + 1 in hand and 2 from the graveyard.

    Ral -2, Cast Mizzix's Mastery targeting Fork and have the copy target Doublecast. (I don't know whether you're allowed to change targets like that if it's Finale of Promise instead of Mizzix's Mastery.)

    Since Mizzix's Mastery is still on the stack while it's resolving, you can target it with Fork. (It won't fizzle until it "tries to resolve." ) Then the Doublecast trigger lets you create a copy of Fork - this leaves you with two copies of Fork on the stack and you can copy as often as you like.

  20. #640
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    Re: War of the Spark

    WAR Walkers get anime tiddies promo versions

    Art-wise, they're a mixed bag - some are better, some are worse (what the fuck is wrong with that Bolas?). Gotta love that Amano (the Final Fantasy artist) Liliana, though.
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