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Thread: War of the Spark

  1. #201

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post


    That static ability is nice, but everything else about this card sucks.



    That -X ability is nice, but 4 mana is a lot...
    That's gonna make for some silly Death's Shadow interaction in Modern.

  2. #202

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post

    That -X ability is nice, but 4 mana is a lot...
    I think he's playable along that new land that filters two mana for a dumb chandra or something.
    Also: He's in infinite combo alongside my other favorite four-mana combo piece Volcano Hellion

  3. #203

    Re: War of the Spark

    Single Combat 3WW
    Sorcery
    Each player chooses one creature OR planeswalker, then sacrifices the rest.
    Nobody can cast creatures or planeswalkers until the end of your next turn.

    That's ALMOST really good, because it would mostly wipe the board and stop them from reloading while you're tapped out, but then you can't reload on your next turn either just kinda kills it.

  4. #204
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBleiweiss View Post
    That's gonna make for some silly Death's Shadow interaction in Modern.
    Well, isn't Lifelink kind of opposite what you'd want on a Death's Shadow?
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  5. #205

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, isn't Lifelink kind of opposite what you'd want on a Death's Shadow?
    Sure, give or take that it can just keep recurring the Death's Shadow until they deal with both Sorin and Death's Shadow. Basically look at it as "I get to try Death's Shadow four times, and then this sits around unless you deal with both of them".

  6. #206

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBleiweiss View Post
    Sure, give or take that it can just keep recurring the Death's Shadow until they deal with both Sorin and Death's Shadow. Basically look at it as "I get to try Death's Shadow four times, and then this sits around unless you deal with both of them".
    except I don't have to because your death's shadows and your Sorrin can't exist together at the same time?

  7. #207
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    except I don't have to because your death's shadows and your Sorrin can't exist together at the same time?
    Sort of, yeah, so lets say you are at 1, a Shadow in your 'Yard. You play Sorin, -1, get back a Shadow. The issue is, if the Shadow hits anything, all your Shadows die, you know, the StP effect. I mean, it gets you back "a single use" Shadow, the the expense of then making any subsequent Shadow literally dead until you can lower your life total.

    I mean, there is a way this wouldn't be terrible. But even just saying that kind of proves how "not generally great" the interaction is, of course.
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  8. #208
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Ugin is still unconfrimed but the rumor mill on MTGsally has it as the following so far:

    6 mana 4 loyalty
    Colourless spell you cast cost 2 less to cast
    +1: create a 2/2 spirit. Exile top card of your library face down, you may look at it. When the spirit leaves the battlefield, put the exile card into your hand.
    -3: destroy target permanent thats one or more colours

    -- Funny thought is that it makes Karn-Lattice Lock 6 mana total, so you can definitely just cast Ugin, kill a problematic permenant than Karn-Lock the next turn. Again, this is all provided that the card spoils as currently written.

  9. #209

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    Ugin is still unconfrimed but the rumor mill on MTGsally has it as the following so far:

    6 mana 4 loyalty
    Colourless spell you cast cost 2 less to cast
    +1: create a 2/2 spirit. Exile top card of your library face down, you may look at it. When the spirit leaves the battlefield, put the exile card into your hand.
    -3: destroy target permanent thats one or more colours

    -- Funny thought is that it makes Karn-Lattice Lock 6 mana total, so you can definitely just cast Ugin, kill a problematic permenant than Karn-Lock the next turn. Again, this is all provided that the card spoils as currently written.
    KArn-lattice is 4 + 6 For 10.
    Ugin Karn lattice is 6+2+4 for 12.
    Look at all these great ways to close out a game!

  10. #210
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    KArn-lattice is 4 + 6 For 10.
    Ugin Karn lattice is 6+2+4 for 12.
    Look at all these great ways to close out a game!
    Yeah, I mean, I can think of a whole bunch of things that win the game pretty quick if you can resolve 6 mana spells at whim...

    Turns out, if your opponent is a gold-fish and you draw perfectly, there are numerous powerful things you can do and with impunity!

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  11. #211
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Jeez, I know it's a lot of mana, but I am assuming any deck that can generate 6 colorless by turn 4 pretty easily will opt to play Karn. Ugin, as rumored, is also a decent card for such decks to consider as it makes the rest of their cards cheaper (since such decks will most likely be artifact heavy) and it can vindicate when it enters the battlefield. Assuming that decks that will run Karn might also slot in New Ugin to try, I was just mentioning that New Ugin in such a deck does carry the extra threat that if it survives the turn could lead to a Karn-Lock the very next turn.

  12. #212

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Yeah, I mean, I can think of a whole bunch of things that win the game pretty quick if you can resolve 6 mana spells at whim...

    Turns out, if your opponent is a gold-fish and you draw perfectly, there are numerous powerful things you can do and with impunity!

    Eldrazi Post's whole game plan is having 6+ colorless mana at all times. Being able to win once you hit 6 instead of having to wait to 8 to an eye of ugin that doesn't get wastelanded is a huge boon. You could build a real mud prision deck with stuff like this that now includes an actual hard lock that also can win the game.

  13. #213
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Eldrazi Post's whole game plan is having 6+ colorless mana at all times. Being able to win once you hit 6 instead of having to wait to 8 to an eye of ugin that doesn't get wastelanded is a huge boon. You could build a real mud prision deck with stuff like this that now includes an actual hard lock that also can win the game.
    Yeah, I get that, it's all likely playable and somewhat better than what is available now, but likely doesn't solve any of the "inherent problems" with the strategy in general. Which isn't really "how to hammer lock a game once you have a ton of mana?" The problem more usually is something of "how to be consistent enough to get X+ mana and resolve your key spells?"

    Just upgrading threats doesn't always push something over the top if there is already fundamental issues with how you get to the point of being able to resolve those threats.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  14. #214

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Yeah, I get that, it's all likely playable and somewhat better than what is available now, but likely doesn't solve any of the "inherent problems" with the strategy in general. Which isn't really "how to hammer lock a game once you have a ton of mana?" The problem more usually is something of "how to be consistent enough to get X+ mana and resolve your key spells?"

    Just upgrading threats doesn't always push something over the top if there is already fundamental issues with how you get to the point of being able to resolve those threats.
    See, you say this like all the issues Reanimator/Show decks had weren't magically resolved by getting a Griselbrand into play.

  15. #215
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    See, you say this like all the issues Reanimator/Show decks had weren't magically resolved by getting a Griselbrand into play.
    But you are actually arguing in favor of my point with that example. UB Reanimator and Show and Tell were already pretty consistent, foundationally, due to the cantrip-based nature, so they just really needed the right pay-off/finisher. Is it you thought that big mana decks are in the position? I'm not seeing it that way, really. Better finishers will make things somewhat better, but they don't answer inherent problem(s) of the strategy itself.
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  16. #216
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    Eldrazi Post's whole game plan is having 6+ colorless mana at all times. Being able to win once you hit 6 instead of having to wait to 8 to an eye of ugin that doesn't get wastelanded is a huge boon. You could build a real mud prision deck with stuff like this that now includes an actual hard lock that also can win the game.
    This is one of the reasons eldrazi post has never been a deck to beat.
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  17. #217
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Yeah, I get that, it's all likely playable and somewhat better than what is available now, but likely doesn't solve any of the "inherent problems" with the strategy in general. Which isn't really "how to hammer lock a game once you have a ton of mana?" The problem more usually is something of "how to be consistent enough to get X+ mana and resolve your key spells?"

    Just upgrading threats doesn't always push something over the top if there is already fundamental issues with how you get to the point of being able to resolve those threats.
    Big Eldrazi is already a pretty good deck. It might not be getting played enough right now to make huge waves, but it is certainly a powerful strategy.

    Printing more powerful cards that are lower down on the curve is most definitely an improvement for the archetype. If the deck can trim back on mana rocks to run more business spells because they cost less, and because they cost less they can deploy them faster, it most certainly does help fix some of the issues that they had.

    The old new (4cc) Karn was a big step in the right direction. Another 4 mana Karn and a new 6 mana Ugin are great new tools for that archetype. Not every list may want all of them maindeck, or even in the 75, but these new cards are still a net positive for them.
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  18. #218
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by Hanni View Post
    Big Eldrazi is already a pretty good deck. It might not be getting played enough right now to make huge waves, but it is certainly a powerful strategy.

    Printing more powerful cards that are lower down on the curve is most definitely an improvement for the archetype. If the deck can trim back on mana rocks to run more business spells because they cost less, and because they cost less they can deploy them faster, it most certainly does help fix some of the issues that they had.

    The old new (4cc) Karn was a big step in the right direction. Another 4 mana Karn and a new 6 mana Ugin are great new tools for that archetype. Not every list may want all of them maindeck, or even in the 75, but these new cards are still a net positive for them.
    Well, if that's the case, then that is the case. We'll have to see really. Cutting back on mana rocks could be a "win" or it could lead to increased variance, hard to say, even if you are aiming at lower CMC's overall.

    While moving to non-Creature spells that are arguably more powerful could be an upgrade, there are going to be trade-offs there. So, it isn't exactly a lead-pipe lock that this makes the strategy vastly better than it was before. Although it seems reasonable to surmise it might make it somewhat better than before. As always, the meta will decide it.

    In a vacuum, of course the lock seems great. In actual practice, we'll see how well existing things like K. Command and Ass Trophy could plausibly work against it, along with other things (like how D&T fights new Karn if he sees a lot of play).
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  19. #219

    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    This is one of the reasons eldrazi post has never been a deck to beat.
    Lol, ok.

  20. #220
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    Re: War of the Spark

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, if that's the case, then that is the case. We'll have to see really. Cutting back on mana rocks could be a "win" or it could lead to increased variance, hard to say, even if you are aiming at lower CMC's overall.

    While moving to non-Creature spells that are arguably more powerful could be an upgrade, there are going to be trade-offs there. So, it isn't exactly a lead-pipe lock that this makes the strategy vastly better than it was before. Although it seems reasonable to surmise it might make it somewhat better than before. As always, the meta will decide it.

    In a vacuum, of course the lock seems great. In actual practice, we'll see how well existing things like K. Command and Ass Trophy could plausibly work against it, along with other things (like how D&T fights new Karn if he sees a lot of play).
    Not every Big Eldrazi variation is going to want these cards; some builds may not use any of them. That doesn't mean that they won't still benefit from the new tools indirectly.

    New Karn is more than just a lock with Lattice. It's also able to tutor for answers to help deal with problematic matchups or situations. To be able to tutor for Trinisphere against Storm or Ensnaring Bridge against Depths is still a great boon. Sure this may be too slow sometimes, but there will definitely be times where it solves the problem. There are a great deal of useful artifacts, from Walking Ballista and Wurmcoil Engine, to Sorcerous Spyglass and Tormod's Crypt. It even makes a Helm/Leyline plan more feasible.

    New Ugin seems like a great way to ramp into bigger costed spells like old Ugin and Ulamog while providing tremendous benefit with its other abilities.

    I guess time will tell what impact these new cards will have. It is an exciting time to be a brewer, if nothing else.
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