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Thread: Bant Quellblade

  1. #1
    Is Cancer

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    Bant Quellblade

    If some of the lurkers still remember my previous incursion into what I called "Quellblade", here is a link to that; which was primarily in Esper. This allowed for Bitterblossom and DRS on black which accelerated into Queller in order to start locking the opponent. It had very good success in paper and 65% or so on MTGO by the time I got burnt out.

    With the loss of DRS the natural switch was to Green as it still has Noble, which is 70% of a DRS and more reliable mana producer. Additionally, Green has Knight of the Reliquary which (oddly enough) is a very good replacement for Bitterblossom (because it shores up matches against Marit Lage and Reanimator) and it happens to be very good against Gurmags, S&T, and Eldrazi; which were issues the Esper version had. The fact that KotR got a stealth-buff with DRS gone is fairly huge and allows him to easily outsize most of the format's creatures while accelerating the Wasteland plan the deck sometimes moves to in the mid game.

    This is the current list I'm working with
    -19/10-
    4 Noble Hierarch
    2 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Spellstutter Sprite
    4 Spell Queller
    3 Knight of the Reliquary
    2 Vendillion Clique

    -5/2-
    1 Umeazawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow
    2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria

    -17/13-
    2 Ponder
    3 Stifle
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Force of Will

    -20-
    3 Wasteland
    3 Flooded Strand
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Tundra
    3 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    1 Karakas
    1 Island
    1 Forest
    1 Plains
    and my current sideboard:

    Sideboard:
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Enlightened Tutor
    1-2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    0-1 Rest in Peace
    1 Detention Sphere
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    5-7 flex

    Why Queller?
    Queller was originally a 1-of I was trying out that won me a couple matches the day I added it to some random bant pile. Since then I've explored it quite thoroughly and am still convinced it is, in fact, pretty good.

    One of the biggest advantages of Queller is the fact that it *doesn't* counter the spell. One would often see this as a potential downside, but it means:
    * Loam and Pfire are gone until they kill the queller, who is conveniently bigger than Pfire's damage
    * Snapcaster can't access the spell, so they have to dig for it
    * Your opponent makes plans/play-lines based around the fact they can potentially get their spell back; which may open lines for you (such as Stifle or Stutter) to block the removal or the second spell.

    Additionally, Queller's other main features are it's sizable body and Flash. Being able to take on Mirran Crusader is a feat that most things in the format can't say; especially a card that looks Anti-combo on the surface. The fact that Queller can easily just be an ambush viper for the majority of creatures in the format makes it that much easier to gain actual CA off of it.

    Finally, highlighting flash, flash allows you to hold your mana open for counters OR deploy psuedo-'hasted' threats; perfect for untapping, equipping, and swinging. This helps dramatically against D&T and Miracles, for example, or just applying pressure on combo.


    Synergies and Core Card choices
    These can be found on the previous thread and I'll fill it out better when I'm not lazy. Here's the primary synergies:

    * Noble/Stifle - You want to be ahead on mana for fair decks, or at 3-5 mana ASAP against unfair. Stifle also helps with your combo MUs due to your unconventional slow-counters (stutter/queller) and can be used to keep Quell'd spells exiled; and Stifle also shores up the Storm MU.

    * Stutter/Queller - Flash Flyers are excellent sword carriers. The fact that they both have potential CA attached to them and allow you to continually play (almost) everything on your opponent's turn. Every time your opponent fetches, casts a cantrip, casts a threat or an answer, they have to ask you. The fact that Flash Flyers are also excellent against Planeswalkers is helpful.

    * Clique - Clique not only fits the Flash/Flyer paradign and boosts Stutter, but it also is proactive rather than reactive. Being able to EoT Clique applies a lot of pressure on your opponent if they're trying to sandbag their way through all your counterspells. Clique not only interacts in a different way, but applies good forward pressure that moves the game forward. One of the best hands/plays you can do is have Noble->Queller or Clique; quelling their spell T2 (depending on MU) or Cliquing EoT after you determined to save your queller; swinging for 4 T3 and holding up counterspells.

    * SFM/Equips - I take the non-blue approach to SFM and simply run 2/2 or 2/3 package; good for finding what I want without filling up on equips and mediocre dudes. Normally I hate BSK anyway; so I've finally committed to simply having Jitte SoFaI, and maybe SoLaS. Her ability syncs up with your counter-dudes because you can spend your saved mana to drop in the equip.

    * KotR - The worst MUs of the Esper version were S&T and Eldrazi. Knight happens to solve that while also shoring up the Marit Lage MUs and being an absolute house of a beater in many cases now. The fact we run Stifle and Waste allows him to support an anti-mana plan when needed. He also shores up Reanimator pretty well.


    Experimental cards:
    * SCM - While Snap is good, he's also reactive. The push-pull of trying to get threats on the board against Storm or similar is obnoxious as you fill your hand with only reactive cards or have to play suboptimally. Currently Clique fill these slots to go for more of a tempo approach. That said, SCM is still worth trying out

    * Teferi - I haven't casted him yet; but in theory the fact he untaps your mana, gives you an out to Ensnaring Bridge (or other obnoxious permanents) and has loads of CA attached to him seems like a catch all. Also, he's an out to B2B and Choke; allowing a couple of your lands to untap that wouldn't normally. It's worth noting that he effectively costs 3 if not countered; which leaves mana open for your dudes; a nice synergy to have.

    * Garruk Wildspeaker - Probably garbage? but his +1 untaps your lands (which means you get to hold your mana open the turn you drop him), his -1 helps with Walkers, and his -4 (which can be done the second turn he's down) can turn your anemic threats into game-enders. I think if the deck starts struggling against Control I'll move this direction, as he functionally costs 2 against most decks and can apply a lot of pressure. We'll see if I ever get around to testing him. Like teferi, it also makes him an additional out to Choke and B2B; allowing you to play normally or potentially even play B2B or Choke yourself.

    * Abeyance - The synergies are real and the cantriping is obviously of note. I think these will eventually take up the Ponder slots and maybe the SoLaS slot. The fact that it time-walks Depths decks

    * Bojuka Bog - While I keep a lot of grave hate in the side, it'd be nice to have KotR be able to interact with combo so that more hands are usable/reliable. So many decks rely on the grave right now that over-loading on grave hate seems fine. Not sure if it belongs in the Side or Main yet; but from the SB in practice it felt alright; and felt good enough to consider the main despite my misgivings about it.


    Sideboard:
    * Tutor Boards help a ton for combo and is occasionally useful for fair decks

    * Canonist comes in against a lot more than you'd think. 1-sided counterspells are brutal against combo and makes your counter-dudes that much meaner. The fact that if they kill Queller they don't get their spell back is a very nice synergy.

    * CPriest - NOTE: she doesn't combine well with queller; but still comes in more often than you'd think. As a flash-threat she often is good for any combo deck just because you can hold your mana open more reliably; aside from turning off Vial, Elves, Sneakshow, and grave decks.

    * Cage - Mostly for T1 or low mana hands next to tutor. A 1-lander with Tutor can still tutor and cast cage by T2.

    * RiP - Less good now than it was since there's a lot less lands and a lot more Depths. Still, I've been keeping it for now as a hedge.

    * DSphere - This can be Engineered Explosives, or another card that is a tutorable sweeper. I've gone with Sphere for now because it's cheap, Blue, and hits Show&Tell. The main reason this card is here, however, is that it makes Tutor much better against Storm. You may Tutor for a Canonist to block them, or if they already went off you can tutor for Sphere/EE/Ratchet/etc in order to pop Empty The Warrens tokens; giving you 3 outs to the tokens (aside from Jitte; which you probably sided out.)

    * Revoker is mostly useful for locking out Sneak Attack; but also helps for D&T and is worth siding to eat LEDs.

    Flex Sideboard:
    * Venser, Shaper Savant - Flash threat that happens to buy you a turn in most cases where you use him. Keep Jace off the table for a second. Also further helps with Sneakshow/Reanimator/etc as additional answers. The fact he bounces anything and you have a tutorable Karakas makes him useful for getting out of all kinds of locks. Can seriously screw with weird decks too, like Enchantress.

    * Tsabo's Web - D&T is one of our weirder matchups and Web happens to do collateral damage on Lands meanest cards while being psuedo-land destruction against Turbo depths. It cantrips, is tutorable, and buys you lots of tempo. Careful with your Karakas and Wastelands however.

    * Suppression Field - Could be alright if going for the mana-screw plan and it hampers D&T, Lands, and Turbo quite a bit; while making Sneak harder to activate and Griselbrand often doesn't get to draw cards; but it does bite you pretty badly as well. Careful!

    * BEB..

    * Scryb Ranger - One I'm still tempted to try in the main as a 1 or 2 of. It helps get you out of Choke, B2B; it helps ramp you or play on only 2 lands. It teams up with KotR to deliver more lands to the grave/field. It's a Flash Flyer to boot and blocks delvers while pumping Stutter. Very tempting.

    * Needle - For when Revoker doesn't work or when you need an extra effect; nice to have at different mana costs; Revoker edges it out IMO if only running a single effect since it dodges Chalice and attacks; but Needle hits Depths, Lands, etc. so is worthwhile for considering a second slot. A compromise could be Spyglass.



    official record post-DRS ban: 5-2; _________________Breakdown: 3-1, 2-0-1 (ID)
    official record pre-DRS ban:
    Local Tournament Performance: 14-2-2; ___________Breakdown: 3-1, 3-0, 3-0-1, 3-0-1 (ID), 2-1
    MTGO League Record: 28-15; ____________________Breakdown: 3-2, 3-2, 4-1, 4-1, 0-3, 4-1, 3-2, 4-1, 3-2
    Last edited by tescrin; 02-17-2019 at 06:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  2. #2
    Is Cancer

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    Re: Bant Quellblade

    So with me breaking my 1.5 year Legacy fasting period (for Lent obviously!) I went 3-1 last night with the above. Here were the MUs:

    Elves - Nice woman who was unfortunate enough to play against this thing.
    G1 - Stifle her Foothills thinking she may be Belchin'. Realize she's elves and Stutter a Heritage druid, waste a land or two, holding Force ready the whole time. Find a Jitte and kill everything.
    G2 - Start with Cage, plow a couple things, Quell something, end up sitting on two forces and some blue cards. Kill her with CPriest and Queller (and noble for a bit); hard-casting Force on a Choke for fun.
    2-0, 1-0

    Big Red - Lucky I won the dice roll!
    G1 - Noble; he chalices and shuts most of my hand off but I have Queller ready. He goes for Moon and it gets Quelled. I hold up more interaction and waste him down to a Mountain, cast Clique to increase my clock and beat him to death with flyers.
    G2 - Chalice while I hold Pithing Needle, Brainstorm, Noble, something. Yeah I lose to an ELDRITCH HORROR TOO TERRIFYING TO IMAGINE. I think I forced a blood moon and got-got by Sneak? But i was f'd anyway
    G3 - Force a moon, I think I waste and he get's mana-screwed? Hold a bunch of interaction while a Clique punches for 4.
    4-1, 2-0

    Storm (ANT)
    G1 - Win the Dice roll but he's got too much discard IIRC. I think he takes my Stifle and I eventually get Brainlocked trying to hide my Force. I draw into Plow/KotR and other useless cards before being stripped of my protection.
    G2 - Find Rip, Quellers, Stutters, and other interaction. He goes for an awkward creature strategy (I think for fun given the first game was a slaughter from discard)
    G3 - I remember this being close, but I have a Force and a Stifle. Once he gets to 3 life he has to go for it and TS's my Force hoping to find more discard after he PiF's. He can't get rid of the Stifle without losing life and has to call it. Stifle's a card man.
    6-2, 3-0

    Grixis Delver - lose the dice roll, dang it!
    G1 - I plow a T1 Delver. Plow a T2 Pyro. go for a KotR who gets Dazed. Go for a KotR who lands but has a Fish, flipped Delver, and soon a Grim Lavaman to fight. I get SoFaI on board but he bolt+grim's my KotR so I have to sac lands to keep him up; making it so I can't block. Too-little too late for me.
    G2 - I have a Loam, counters, and lands. I play safe on lands until I cast loam to get my fetches back, then find a Waste and waste him out while he has a blossom. Jitte clears the tokens and he scoops with Blossom as his only permanent.
    G3 - I keep Noble, fetch, Waste, Force, Queller(?), Brainstorm, something. Not perfect, but looks doable. He opens with a fetch and I cast noble into a Bolt. He then wastes me and I waste him back, hoping he's got no more lands because I have none. He casts BS in response I force it hoping he was digging for lands. He wasn't and just plops a land down next turn anyway, casting a giant fish. Dag-nab it. I should've saved the force!
    7-3, 3-1

    So that's my first one back! I was hoping to run into one of the Turbodepths or Sneakshow players there but alas, I did not. I'll be trying to get to at least Saturday this week, if not get a second official one on Thursday.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  3. #3
    Is Cancer

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    Re: Bant Quellblade

    Played a 2-1 this evening (or 2 and an ID; but we played it out and I lost 1-2)

    MU 1 - Infect
    G1 - He goes first, we both play Trop Noble. I untap and hold mana open and he, unsure of what that would signal gets a Ponder munched by a Stutter. Then a queller eats an Agent or something, then a second queller eats a cantrip, and a third eats his berserk that targeted a queller. Yup.
    G2 - He basically mulls to death (too many colorless lands I think?)
    2-0
    - I think side for this is just a pair of Canonist, needle, revoker,

    MU 2 - Turbodepths
    G1 - I Vendi his hand shortly into the game and see Removal, 2 hexmage, and something. He's already close to combo so I remove a Mage because I don't know how many lages I'll have to kill. I play a KotR that gets removed and kick myself for not pushing the removal out of his hand. I find a second KotR (which also gets removed) and while I get some mild beats on him, he produces a Lage, a second lage after it gets plowed, and wins IIRC.
    G2 - I get a SoLaS on board and quell a Duress to keep my plow. I hold a Stifle, Force, Plow for most of the game while I slowly beat on him for 3 a turn (exalted Queller.) I believe he has Hexmage but nothing else interesting and just gets slowly punched to death as whatever interaction he has gets blocked; and he ends with 3 Hexmages on board.
    G3 - I Noble, Vendi I think, get a SoLaS down and see him Choke 2 or 3 of my lands. I can still slowly get by though. I attach SoLaS to SFM so I can re-attach to vendi if he pops SFM in response. He doesn't! I start hitting for 6, holding a waste open and some mana for plow to get rid of his token if necessary. He finds a Trophy and targets my wasteland while I only have a tundra open, brainstorm in hand and a card to put back IIRC. I brainstorm, find the plow, and because he'll get a token regardless of my wasteland I let Trophy give me a plains, which gets tapped to plow his Token. He's at 29, but I have KotR (summoning sick), Vendi, and SFM with a Sword. He quickly gets munched as a sole Sylvan Safekeeper makes his way on board after the big plays. Turns out he was somewhat mana short and couldn't quite get protection for his token.
    - I believe I just sided out a pair of stifle, a pair of Forces, and Jitte? Brought in Sphere, Needle, Revoker, Loam, Azcanta

    Mu 3 - Miracles
    G1 - I keep a shakey hand of 5 lands, SFM, KotR and have no idea what he's on. He has the nuts of CB, Plows, Jace, Teferi; I scoop on T5
    G2 - Grindy; I end up Quelling and Stuttering a thing here and there, and the highlights are around T3. I land SFM. he Cliques in response to a drop-trigger; sees that I have BOTH swords in hands and lets me keep SoLaS. SoLaS beats on SFM get me most of the way there until a terminus, in which a Venser instant-speed drops in, bounces his ascanta, equips, and finishes the job (with the help of other guys countering things afterwards.)
    G3 - We both save up a multitude of spells and the stack goes something like:
    Canonist -> Snap+Snare -> Stutter -> Counterspell -> Force -> Force. Dang it! He lands a Jace right after and Councils a Sword I put down. I have a weak hand and decide to Brainstorm. 3 lands. WHELP. I almost get Jace with the Queller but he has so much mana he eventually SCM->Terminus. I get jaced out while I draw 5 lands and an Ascanta
    - I sided out 1 plow, 1 stifle, 1 FoW, 1 Jitte, 4 Noble; brought in Needle, Revoker, Venser, Azcanta, 2 Canonist, 2 CPriest (flash)
    __________
    I am currently waiting on Teferi, I didn't realize they printed such a brutal walker! My goodness. I think swapping SoLaS to the board, getting an Azcanta in the main, and a Teferi or two in the Main/Side will help with Miracles; which I've been dedicating a lot of my thinking to this last week. I think I'll also be getting a Tsabo's Decree for D&T in there, and a Torpor orb for them; since losing my triggers will probably matter less than them losing theirs. We'll see? Decree also seems good to get rid of Maze of Ith issues that sometimes come from Lands; and locking down Thespian's Stage when it's been tapped for mana seems like a neat trick.

    Regardless, I was glad to see that KotR does fill the Blossom spot reasonably for lands/Depths; makes me more comfortable there. I'm not sure that Blossoms would've done much today. When I had KotR's people had answers that could hit anything (Teferi, Trophy/Decay) so I'm trying not to question it too much yet.


    Main deck has removed Waste #4 for plains, which as you can see won me a match. I think it'll have to stay in between moon decks, Trophy, B2B, choke, etc.
    ________
    On Teferi; he covers a lot of bases I'm interested in: CA difficult to remove for Miracles, hits non-creature permanents in grindy matchups; and funny enough, untaps mana when he comes in (unless you're desperate) which means he gives me Sprite/Queller mana. KotR happens to synergize slightly by being a potential ramp; meaning god-hands could get T3 Teferi.

    An interesting note is that Vendi will be less necessary as a "face foward" kind of card if I have a top end that matters. I've been avoiding Jace (in part because I can't find my copies) but Tef seems enough to make me want a big high-costed dingle-do.

    Maybe next time (when the cards come in) SoLaS and Vendi will swap for 1-2 Tefs and 1-2 Azcanta. Azcanta seems like the right card to be playing with the flash-dude plan, as a way to soak up mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  4. #4
    Is Cancer

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    Re: Bant Quellblade

    Updated main post a bunch more, will start including MU analysis when I get some more tournies under my belt. May grind MTGO a bunch but haven't pulled the trigger on that. Last time I had connection issues that caused me to occasionally lose several minutes a match (and thus lose matches I was going to win due to time out; while on paper it takes hardly any time to play my turns or opponent's turns.) The interface is also super difficult for this deck since you care about every possible point you could use something at instant speed. If you mess up a click and miss a draw step or an end step it can easily cost you a game. In paper, however, it plays very smoothly.

    I grinded a bit against S&T, BR Reanimator, and Miracles last night since the local didn't fire (not sure why no one showed up? 3 day weekend? Valentines?)

    S&T seems very positive now. The simple change of Blossom->KotR is huge for stopping T1 losses and once you get to 3 mana it's mostly about delivering a threat and making sure you don't lose. Queller ate some petals and S&Ts, KotR used a lot of wastelands and Forces were good as one might imagine. No sideboard games; but right now my board can heavily hit SneakShow with Venser, DSphere, Revoker, CPriest; among all the main-deck interaction. Side would probably be -SFM, -Equips, -Stifle.

    Miracles we only did a pair of games and I screwed up the first game by playing into a Terminus because I thought he was on a Lily/Jace control brew. G2 we sided I think, which was super close but i lost. I think the second Teferi will help but I'm waiting on the mail still (almost two weeks a this point..) This is the main MU I'm focused on shoring up; but it's not terrible. Basically cast only 1-2 threats at a time, preferably on their turn; equip with something and go to town. Board in CPriest, Canonist (makes their ability to counter-war awkward, and they can't snap/plow), Venser (miracles, flash, reset planeswalkers, etc), board out Nobles, 1 Plow, 1 Force, 1 Stifle, and maybe Jitte; consider adding DSphere and/or Revoker as further answers to Angels/Walkers.

    BR Reanimator is mediocre G1 as I expected. Without the Force you need to go first with Plow or hope they can't quite T1 a fat. If, however you get to about T2/T3 the game is very positive between your plows, Knights, and myriad counterspells. G2+ is much easier since you board in CPriest, Cage, Tutors, Rip, and then probably Sphere, Revoker and Canonist just to cust anything slow for combo-blockers. Drop SFM, Jitte, SoFaI, Tef, then either Stifle or Noble. Stifle can help you Mana screw them, so I'd probably drop Nobles since you want mana always open until you have them locked down. With so many nasty outs you'll probably find one in a couple turns and GG. I'd say that this is one of the worst MUs and it feels pretty ok after sideboard.


    I'll get MU analysis up by the end of the week and hopefully have a couple of reports Thurs/Sat
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  5. #5
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    Re: Bant Quellblade

    Teferi is expensive for a 2-of. I understand it is your universal solution but I would test 1 Teferi +1 cheaper engine like Jace or Ongoing Investigation (I love this card in the format described in my signature and I think I never saw a deck more likely to play the card in legacy than your deck).

    Back when I was playing Bant a while ago what I found really valuable was to build the deck to maximize the number of options on every turn with cards that allow multiple plays (which equipment to get with sfm, what to do with kotr, gsz, clique when, clique you or the opp, jace's abilities...). Which really pays off if you are a good player. Keep this idea in mind imo.

  6. #6
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    Re: Bant Quellblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Lejay View Post
    Teferi is expensive *snip* test *snip* Ongoing Investigation
    I've definitely given that card a sideways look a few times. I figured that the issue I'd have is that I have to have it out before hitting (for example) the Miracles player with dudes; which can sometimes be difficult so I was looking for a more self-sufficient solution (which unfortunately, its graveyard ability isn't.) I'll keep it in mind now that I've heard someone enjoyed it though.

    I think Tef (if you get to +1) essentially costs 3 which seems nice; but I'll admit 5 is way up there. The Nobles and KotR may ramp you but I guess if you're untapping with KotR you're probably in a good position anyway. (I'd probably try out Jaces but I'm not sure what happened to mine and I saw that Tef may be a better fit)

    I've considered that if i use Abeyance I may put in Snapcasters as well; possibly in the Tef slots. The idea being that Abeyance makes Snap a little more proactive and the more turns of an opponent's you skip, the better.

    Thanks for the suggestion and I'll keep journaling as long as it seems it still has legs

    EDIT: After sleeping on it I think I like Sylvan Library more than both Azcanta and Ongoing Investigation. Azcanta being gravebased and digging less than Library is immediately unappealing (as is tapping 5 lands to maybe get a card) and additionally that until you dump 7 mana, you can't get a card. While investigation only requires 4 mana to your first card (and you could, in theory, draw a card the turn you play it by playing it after a creature looks like it'll connect) I'm leery of it being conditional on having board presence (E.G. you get Terminus'd, you draw OI and realize it doesn't do anything.) Interestingly, I think OI would be super interesting next to Tezz (ult, thopters, and easy 5/5s access) Will think on that for BUG Tezz if I ever get around to it haha

    A very fringe never-gonna-happen benefit of it is that it synergizes with Tef's draw-trigger ult; which would certainly make it occur at a blistering pace if it ever came up.
    Last edited by tescrin; 02-18-2019 at 04:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

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