I don't think this is a problem.Originally Posted by Tylert
I could discuss the format with a friend here, too, if I wanted, but my friends happen to not really like 4CB because of poor card knowledge.
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
No problem for me. I was just joking implying we could guess Serguei would have submitted what you submitted :)
Good.
For winning purposes it's pretty bad in fact. He sometimes specifically metagames against me :)
I didn't imagine that at all and thought it was a funny coincidence, but lucky you!
I tried to motivate few friends, they had no more than polite interest. It should be more fun that way.
And of course not a problem for me.
That beats the theoretical Discord strategy.
Honestly, I don't think anyone could stop you two, may as well keep doing what you are doing.
I'm home, so let's go.
DECKS FOR ROUND 9 OF SEASON 9: Deviant Legacy - Part 2
This round we play Race for Life: Players don't lose the game for having 0 life or less or from having 10 or more poison counters. If a player has 100 life or more, he or she wins the game. If more players have 100 life or more at the same moment, the game ends in a draw. If no player can reach 100 life with optimal play from either side, the game also ends in a draw. Effects that would prevent, replace or mitigate lifegain in any way instead do nothing. Effects that would make you win the game immediately, or make an opponent lose the game immediately, instead do nothing. Effects you control that would make you lose the game are unaffected.
The entries:
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
You can also enter your scores in the Google Spreadsheet for the season which you can find here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
Asthereal's scores for round 9:
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse
That's me. I actually googled "best lifegain cards mtg", which is how I found Fountain. I feel inadequate.
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
Whoever gets the lifegaining going first wins. My exiling discard protects against Vindicate, but I'll only play it if you drop Basilica, because otherwise the life loss makes me lose the race. 3-3
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak
Predator gets Remorsed, Maze stops the Cloaked token and the last token isn't relevant. Fountain wins it. 6-0
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember
Whoever gets the lifegain going first wins it. Our interaction is hilariously pointless here. 3-3
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley
Remorse takes a combo piece both OTP and OTD. You have no answer to Fountain. 6-0
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel
Whoever gets the lifegain going first wins it again. 3-3
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Remorse exiles Kozilek, you can still use Call, dioscarding Blood, but Maze stops your token. 6-0
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Remorse Rider. Not that I really need to though. Mazing it also does the trick. 6-0
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross
Remorse the Sorin, then Maze stops your Chancellor when it eventually drops. 6-0
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
EDIT: Overlooked the second lifegain. OTP the life loss for Remorse costs me the race. I was afraid that aspect of the card would end up hurting somewhere. 0-6
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
OTP I can remorse a combo piece. OTD I can't and you win on turn 3. 3-3
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
FoN takes my artifact unless I make you discard first. But if I do that, your Valley brings you ahead in life too much and I lose the race anyway. This deck is really well thought out. 0-6
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
Whoever gets the lifegain going first wins it again. I can let you have Rider and just Maze it 97 times. 3-3
Total: 45 points. Not bad.
Last edited by Asthereal; 03-19-2021 at 06:23 AM.
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel
Pandemic-themed life list. We get sick, then recover slowly..
Albeit not great, that's actually an interesting universal life experience we're experiencing now. 4CB could reflect that too :p
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse
3-3. Pox does not take a third of the artifacts...
3
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
6-0. Me faster.
9
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak
6-0. T1 is great against such decks. Kavu predator was one of my favourites aggro decks (2x Kavu plus sheltered valley). The garden to trump smallpox/innocent blood and alternative wincon sounds great.
15
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember
6-0. Idem.
21
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley
2-2. Faster's not always enough.
23
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth
0-6. Urgh. Kozilek's great against me.
23
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
6-0. A deck I was sure to see. I was expecting valley instead of stronghold, but that should work too :)
29
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross
2-2. Vampires do not fear diseases.
31
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
2-2. A similar plagued deck. The mirror is a draw.
33
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
2-2. A draw again.
35
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
0-6. That I cannot beat.
35
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
6-0. I get the first lifepoint, regardless of whoever plays first.
41
I was imagining more combo (e.g. Heliod, clerics or staff of domination) and aggro (robot/jitte, Kavu) in the metagame, but it was very much grindy. I liked that pox made me win the first lifepoint vs sheltered valley. I am less fond of the fact that there are a lot of stare, draw (8 draws is quite a lot).
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
Hmm I forgot that although we don't die to damage a simple 1/1 can just attack and neutralize my lifegain. This may be a lot worse than I thought.
1. Asthereal (TO): FoN on either Fountain or Remorse means my Valley races. WW 6-0
2. Wrath of Pie: FoN exiles Vindicate. Needle stops Digger anyway. We trade games on Valley. WL 3-3
3. alphastryk: Either counter stops the Cloak, so you can't win, but Predator stops me from winning too. DD 2-2
4. Tylert: FoN stops Sinkhole. We trade games on Valley. WL 3-3
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Either Needle or FoN stops Shuko, but your 1/1 holds me off. DD 2-2
6. dte: FoN on Ritual or Pox stops you. Valley wins. WW 6-0
7. jhhdk: FoN stops Bloodline. Valley wins. WW 6-0
8. Reeplcheep: Luckily I ran Disrupting Shoal X=3 just to counter Rider from my own deck. Thought you had me with Stronghold tech, but Needle stops it. WW 6-0
9. H: Needle stops you from charging the Hangar, and I have 3 answers for Sorin anyway. WW 6-0
10. maxx!: FoN stops Smallpox. We trade games on Valley. WL 3-3
11. silkster: Needle on Nomads or Sanctum stops your combo, but your 1/1s are too fast for me. DD 2-2
13. Serguei: Shoal X=3 counters Rider, stopping the loop. We trade games on Valley. WL 3-3
48 points (14 wins, 6 draws, 4 loss)
Other contenders I had were
City of Traitors, Isochron Scepter, Lightning Helix, Ratchet Bomb (kills creature combos and races Valley)
Radiant Fountain, Tel-Jilad Stylus, Dimir Aqueduct, Reality Acid (kills everything, races Valley, but WL vs Clerics)
City of Traitors, Simian Spirit Guide, Trinisphere, Fountain of Youth (bad OTD)
Swamp, Dark Ritual, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Silversmote Ghoul (kills stuff, lols through Maze)
Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Despair, Unmask (can kill a creature, but worse OTD)
To beat the Stylus and Scepter decks I bottlenecked myself into needing Needle + FoN, to the point of not being able to win against a resolved 1/1. Removal or Maze may have been good.
I thought dte would play Stylus.
I did thought about it a lot, but chickened out of playing a deck that does nothing before T3.
That, and the fact that I found funny to play pox in the life round.
I listed it with valley though. It would have been 51 instead of 41, I should not have chickened out :)
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse WL
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak WW
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember LL
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley WL
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel LL
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth WW
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale WW
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross WW
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel LL
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist WL
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal WL
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider WW
14w = 42 points
Considered the comedy option of Kavu Predator (alphastryk went for it, which I appreciate), life combo, and Sea's Claim (this would have been good and now I regret not going this path), and just went for the poor man's Elixir loop because I expected Durdle: the Gathering.
Turns out Pox and its smaller version were cards I did not account for.
Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 03-18-2021 at 04:49 PM.
GoblinNonSmashmaster Results for Round "Life"
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse
No remose :( 0-6
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
Vindicated 3-3
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak
Diamond Daru 6-0
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember
Fall into sinkhole 0-6
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley
That's me, not allowed to smash with Goblins again!!
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel
Daru quarantines 2-2
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Diamond Daru 6-0
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
Diamond Daru, then stare 4-1
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross
Diamond Daru 6-0
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
Sheltered angel 0-6
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
Diamonds and starlight 3-3
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
Needle isn't enough shelter 2-2
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
Diamond Daru, then stare into the valley 3-3
Total: 35 points
Me: silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse WL against t2 discard
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate WL against t3 removal
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak WW. Kavu Predator is super cool here.
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember DL
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley WL :)
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel LL, Oh this is better than Bazaar + triple Angel that I had in my gauntlet.*
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of TruthLLOh yes, an early Innocent Blood prevents recursion. DL
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale LL
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross WW
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel LL
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal Ha! DD
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider LL
25 points from 7W, 4D and 13L.
I think I could have scraped 6 points from the Tabernacle matchups by playing Shuko instead of the Nomads, but I thought Duress would be a bigger player this round.
Whelp, I wrote my entry as "it's kind a boring, but I guess I'll just play the best deck I can think of", but then I changed it just before submitting to what I thought was a more interesting choice for the round because I'm so far off from winning this season anyway. At least I was right. Swamp + Dark Ritual + Duress + Dreadhorde Invasion would have scored52, 47, 49, 4548(?). I should have known that life combo would be boring to this crowd. And here I thought I was being clever. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I was also looking at Stylus and Helix, though for some reason I keep forgetting about Ratchet Bomb, so I couldn't find a fourth card I really liked.
I considered Sphere of Resistence and Trinisphere very briefly, but didn't pair either with Fountain of Youth, even though Fountain of Youth was the first long-term life gain card I thought of for this round. I wonder whether City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistence, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Youth would have been okay this round. The upside of being able to gain the life right away over Fountain of Renewal and Sheltered Valley is already relevant against decks 1 and 2... Yup, this deck would have dominated, only losing to Subterranean Hangar, and Force+Needle, drawing against Smallpox, and WL against Valley+Sinkhole. Even better for you, since it beats me but not you. You know, I was just thinking over breakfast this morning (before the Serguei discussion) that FTW's thoughts would complement mine very well as a team. Though I think I'm happier just brainstorming myself and learning after the fact.
If I had found Silversmote Ghoul, I don't think I could have resisted the temptation to play such a silly deck.
*I just checked and believe that Bazaar + 3x Firemane Angel would have scored me 36 points. Silly me.
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse LL discard disrupts my engine :-(
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate LL first destroy engine, then destroy tokens
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak looks like WW, recurring innocent blood eventually clears the way
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember LL you destroy my land before i can get recursion going
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley EDIT: LL I have nothing to innocent blood before you go of as FTW pointed out, has this as "DD I have to settle for draws because you're too fast for me set up win".
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel EDIT: WW, as max pointed out in his MU, I can pitch innocent blood for first token.
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth <--- ME
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale looks like LL, maybe I could've dealt with rider without tabernacle, stronghold seems redundant, why is it there?
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross looks like WW, recurring innocent blood eventually clears the way
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel Edit WW Maxx pointed out I can just pitch innocent blood for first token.
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist WD* Seems like i win OTP, but have to settle for draw OTD. Had exact copy of this deck, but discarded it because i was afraid it was too fragile and too slow, will be interesting to see if it would've been better.
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal LL, FTW says NO!
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider looks like LL, maybe I could've dealt with rider without tabernacle.
28 points. (Should've gone with Silkster's deck, which was my initial plan EDIT: or maybe not)
* disagreement with silkster
OTD:
S: Plains, Nomads
J: Bog
S: Sanctum, Nomads
J: I have to Innocent blood before recursion is online or you win next turn.
Smallpox instead of innocent blood would've been much much better. I thought about it after I had submitted my deck, but decided against it for some obscure reason.
Smallpox, Peat Bog, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth, Call the Bloodline Looks like WL, WW, WW, WL, WW, WW, WW, WW, WW, WW, LL, WW, damn that can't be right ... I would've crushed it.
Last edited by jhhdk; 03-19-2021 at 02:50 AM.
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
1. Asthereal: Sinkhole does nothing here. Agonizing remorse does nothing here. I win OTP, you win OTP. 3-3 --> 3
2. Wrath of Pie: OTP, I can sinkhole valley and win. OTP I win because you have to bounce valley to protect it from sinkhole. 6-0 --> 9
3. ALphastryk: Sinkhole kills Sanctuary. 6-0 --> 15
4. Me.
5. Goblinsmashmaster: OTP, I sinkhole the farm FTW. OTD, I can dismember Spiritualist at instant speed FTW. 6-0 --> 21
6. dte: You gain life first as I can't Play valley into pox and I can't interact with graveyard. 0-6 --> 21
7. jhhdk: OTP, I can sinkhole peat Bog. OTD, I can dismember the first token you do and then sinkhole. 6-0 --> 27
8. Reeplcheep: I can sinkhole stronghold and dismember rider if you cast it successfully because I fall asleep during the first 3 turns. 6-0 --> 33
9. H: SInkhole on Hangar FTW. 6-0 --> 39
10. maxx!: OTP, I can safely play sheltered valley first and sinkhole peatbog when you play it. OTP, You can pox before I can Sinkhole peat bog and you win. 3-3 --> 42
11. Silkster: OTP, I can dismember whatever you play first and then sinkhole your plain. OTD, You'll be able to play both creatures and negate my lifegain with one of your guys. 4-1 --> 46
12. FTW: You can counter sinkhole therefore whoever plays first wins. 3-3 --> 49
13. Serguei: I can sinkhole sheltered valley. If you play it last, I dismember Rider first. 6-0 --> 55.
Total 55.
We figured quickly that playing infinite combo was useless. It could only win on turn 3 (either with nomads or Heliod / spikefeeder) and therefore it was unplayable because it allways needed 2 cards without interaction from the opponent.
Then, we realized sinkhole wasn't banned and was taking care of the best win condition in the format: Sheltered valley.
I haven't done the math to know if the Pox decks or the Force of negation deck are better than this one, but I'm happy about the result.
THe only thing I hate about the deck it's that land destruction is allways boring :)
By the way, why playing Rain of tears the previous round???
I saw your write up and hadn't realized that casting Innocent Blood early stops your recursion. I fixed it so it's 4-1 for you instead of 6-0 for you.
You only have 11 scores listed there, but yeah, I can see now why it would be good. It grinds out any every battlefield and then it goes over the top to beat Firemane Angels. I'm now sad that I missed this too because I'm always looking for Pox/Smallpox strategies. In fact, the very first week that I missed before finding this sub would have been dominated by Swamp + Ritual + Pox + Emrakul by running Oloro, Ageless Ascetic as the win condition together with Pox.
I noticed that too and was amused that it didn't matter in a single round. I assumed it was either forgetting about Sinkhole or incorrectly assuming that Sinkhole was banned.
Since I didn't have a ton of time to think things through this week, I went with Kavu Predator for my own amusement. Lets see how that worked out.
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse
Remorse takes Cloack, Maze beats Kavu. LL
0-6
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
Can't beat Vindicate. LL
0-6
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak
This is me!
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember
Can't beat Sinkhole. LL
0-6
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley
Too fast for me. LL
0-6
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel
Get poxed. LL
0-6
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth
Looping Innocent Blood gets it done. LL
0-6
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
You have to use Rider to kill my Kavu to make any progress, but after that I can Cloak a plant and it bounces with the Rider forever. Because we win by getting more life and it costs you life to use Swift End on the Kavu, I should win the race. WW
6-0
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross
I think you're able to hold back and build up a big team to one-shot me, as I won't be able to attack into Licia. LL
0-6
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
Not so big Pox! I can't beat that either. LL
0-6
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
Too fast for me. LL
0-6
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
Force on my Cloak means a draw. DD
2-2
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
Same as my match vs Reeplcheep I think. You have to use Rider to kill my Kavu to make any progress, but after that I can Cloak a plant and it bounces with the Rider forever. Because we win by getting more life and it costs you life to use Swift End on the Kavu, I should win the race. WW
6-0
Total: 14 points
Starting this round with a lot more disagreements than usual, so maybe I'm not thinking clearly today and missing something obvious. I have myself doing better against Asthereal and dte than they do, but worse against jhhdk.
maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
I started off looking for quick infinite combos, but everything I thought of was soft to basically any interaction at all, so I changed to passive lifegain with disruption. Looks like that's what a lot of people did too.
1. Asthereal (TO): Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Maze of Ith, Fountain of Renewal, Agonizing Remorse
The "you lose 1 life" on Agonizing Remorse seems like it could be interesting. OTP I play Peat Bog, you play Urborg and Fountain, then I play Valley and Smallpox. You have to discard your 2nd land or Remorse, so you can't use it to exile my Angel and I gain 2 life per turn to your 1. Alternatively you could hold Fountain to discard to Smallpox, then you could use Remorse to exile my Angel, but I'd still have Sheltered Valley and you would have no lifegain. Win OTP
OTD you play Urborg and Fountain, then I play Sheltered Valley to not get behind on lifegain. You go to 21, then have the option to Remorse my Angel (or my Smallpox, I don't think it matters). If you do, you go to 20, then on my upkeep I go to 21. I believe I win that race, due to the life loss from Agonizing Remorse. If you decide not to Remorse me, then I can play Peat Bog on my turn (we're both at 21), and then Smallpox on my next turn (we're both at 22, then 21 from Smallpox). I end up with Firemane in my graveyard, and due to the Smallpox discard you won't be able to exile it. I think you have to Agonizing Remorse me before I resolve Smallpox, and the 1 life loss from it should put me ahead by a turn. 6-0
2. Wrath of Pie: Sheltered Valley, Orzhov Basilica, Soldevi Digger, Vindicate
Smallpox is always fast enough to get one of your lands, stranding both Digger and Vindicate. Then my Angel plus Valley will outpace your Valley alone. 6-0
3. alphastryk: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Kavu Predator, Armadillo Cloak
Smallpox beats bouncelands. You won't ever be able to cast a spell. 6-0
4. Tylert: Sheltered valley, Urborg, tomb of yawgmoth, Sinkhole, Dismember
OTP I can Smallpox before you can Sinkhole, and my 2 lifegain sources race your 1. OTD you play Sheltered Valley, and then you Sinkhole my Peat Bog whenever I play it, so I can't catch up. 3-3
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Remote Farm, Shuko, Daru Spiritualist, Diamond Valley
OTP Smallpox kills your land before it untaps. OTD you're still a turn too slow to combo before I Smallpox, and there's no way to sequence this to get both Shuko and your creature to stick in order to attack me for 2 and negate my lifegain. 6-0
6. dte: Pox, Swamp, Dark Ritual, Firemane angel
Before I fell asleep last night, I was looking at Pox and trying to decide if this was better, but somehow my tired brain thought that Pox didn't hit lands and Smallpox did. Turns out that isn't true (why would they be different? it would ruin the reference). Anyway, at a glance it looks like whoever plays their pox first loses, due to Angel symmetry and the opponent getting the first upkeep, but I have 2 lifegain sources so maybe I can find an edge. You really only have 1 play/line you can ever make (cast Pox or don't), so that should simplify the analysis.
OTD
d: If you Pox now then I win (first Angel trigger). Pass
m: Peat Bog
d: If you Pox now then I win (first Angel trigger). Pass
m: Sheltered Valley. Pass
d: If you Pox now then I win (first Angel trigger). Pass
Can you ever win from here? I start gaining life and you don't, so you have to act. I probably don't even need to play the Peat Bog first. Any time you Pox, we'll both end up with Angels in the graveyard. I'll be at an equal or higher life total, and I'll get the first Angel trigger. I think this is 6-0
7. jhhdk: Peat Bog, Call the bloodline, Innocent blood, kozilek, Butcher of Truth
This looks bad for me, but I'm not sure yet. If I try to Smallpox before you do anything relevant, then you just discard Kozi and eventually get everything back that you lost. If I just sit on Sheltered Valley, then the onus falls to you to do something.
OTP
j: Bog
m: Bog
j: Call the Bloodline
m: Valley
j: You have to do something or you lose to Valley, so I guess you make a token. You have some different options for how to proceed though. Discarding Kozilek starts your loop, but discarding Innocent Blood leaves Kozilek in your hand as Smallpox insurance.
I don't think I can beat this. You just discard Innocent Blood to make 1 token, hold Kozilek. A 1/1 with lifelink races Sheltered Valley, and if I Smallpox then you get everything back and make more tokens. 0-6
8. Reeplcheep: Murderous Rider , Volrath’s Stronghold, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth , Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
I don't really understand what Volrath's Stronghold is for, since the Rider recurs itself, but it shouldn't matter. Smallpox gets one of your lands, and you can't ever cast Rider while I gain life every upkeep. 6-0
9. H: Subterranean Hangar, Sorin, Imperious Bloodlord, Licia, Sanguine Tribune, Chancellor of the Dross
Smallpox blows up your land before you can do anything. 6-0
10. maxx!: Peat Bog, Sheltered Valley, Smallpox, Firemane Angel
This is me :]
11. silkster: Plains, Starlit Sanctum, Nomads en-Kor, Daru Spiritualist
You're a turn too slow OTP to combo me, and Smallpox prevents you from ever having both creatures in play to beat down my lifegain. 6-0
12. FTW: Sheltered Valley, Pithing Needle, Force of Negation, Disrupting Shoal
FoN always stops Smallpox, so whoever plays Valley first wins. 3-3
13. Serguei: The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Sheltered Valley, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Murderous Rider
Smallpox gets one of your lands, locking you out of Rider. We both have Valleys, but I also end up with Firemane in my graveyard. 6-0
6+6+6+3+6+6+0+6+6+6+3+6 = 60
Happy with that result, so here's hoping that my analysis is right.
true dat, I did say it couldn't be right and it wasn't. I conveniently omitted FTW's MU which would still wipe the floor with me. My bad.
As much as I love the Kavu Predator tech, I think you lose the matchups too.
Not only does that deck have infinite Swift End (you can't keep any creatures), but to even attempt to cast Armadillo Cloak to gain life you can't pay any Tabernacle upkeeps and lose both plants and Kavu. So your creatures are extra dead.
LL 0-6?
This might be another round where your only points are drawing me with durdle.
GoblinSmashmaster has this a win, and I think that's right.
J: Peat Bog tapped
G: Farm tapped
J: Call the Bloodline
G: Shuko
J: Nothing to Innocent Blood yet. Pass?
G: Diamond Valley. Daru. Infinite life.
LL 0-6?
The advantage of Gobbo's build over Silkster's is he is immune to sorcery speed removal by playing Daru 2nd. Innocent Blood can never do anything. Silkster's is better by dodging Agonizing Memories OTP by playing out his stuff earlier, but he is more vulnerable to Innocent Blood.
I guess the advantage of Innocent Blood is you can both cast it and then make a token with Kozilek in the same turn. But Smallpox discarding Kozilek to get everything back is tech. I think I would still beat it with Needle on Call and FoN on Smallpox, but you crush everyone else.
Edit: I see you added that above.
I agree. This looks right to me.
dte probably missed that you have 2 lifegain sources, not 1, so this is not really the mirror. You break the stalemate by playing 1 first and threatening to race with the 2nd if he responds.
I thought the same but didn't want to say anything...
3x Firemane is a nice find. That races most decks and is tough to disrupt.
In my mind I wasn't willing to run anything that loses to infinite life combos or Scepter-Helix, and this would, but it outgrinds all the disruptive decks. Good meta choice.
Sphere + Maze is probably a lot better than 3sphere, especially with multiple decks here playing 3 drops on exactly 3 mana. Never considered that. Yeah, I thought Fountain of Youth was funny racing Sheltered Valley, Fountain of Renewal and Firemane Angel OTD when you don't need Sphere, and OTP it slides under Sphere well. Combined, we would have some powerful decks!
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