Page 23 of 42 FirstFirst ... 1319202122232425262733 ... LastLast
Results 441 to 460 of 831

Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #441

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I kind of agree, Chronomaton is kind of a jerk.
    Chronomaton has the main advantage of being colorless, white has a version in Cenn's Tactician and there are some functionally worse variants as well but none of them are colorless.

  2. #442
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    2,149

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I kind of agree, Chronomaton is kind of a jerk.
    And I'm not even pushing for Chronomaton to get banned! I thought Lupine Prototype was fine. I'm just pointing out than if Field gets banned it's because it gave a few people the feel-bads and not because of any kind of dominance or homogenization.

  3. #443
    Hymn-Slinger
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    2,194

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    And I'm not even pushing for Chronomaton to get banned! I thought Lupine Prototype was fine. I'm just pointing out than if Field gets banned it's because it gave a few people the feel-bads and not because of any kind of dominance or homogenization.
    Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't be upset if it was banned, but I also don't really care if it isn't. I also think that City of Traitors is a jerk in this format, for example, but I don't think it likely needs to be banned.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  4. #444
    plays Mountains
    Ace/Homebrew's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2011
    Location

    Philadelphia Area
    Posts

    2,149

    Re: 4 Card Blind


  5. #445

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    It does cost you the ability to suspend Gargamel and cast Balance in the same turn. Would that matter?
    It would matter against Sphere and other cost increasing cards, but it would improve other matchups. I think I may have done slightly better this week if I had switched to Sandstone Needle.


    Concerning Field of Ruin, I am fine with it. My deck last week folded to FoW, and this week's deck folded to FoR. However, I think it is important to have answers in the format, and each requires some investment and has some weaknesses. I would not mind if FoR were banned, but I don't think it is holding the format back too much. Maybe my opinion will change, but it seems fine.

    They can also be played around if you think they will show up in numbers. PirateKing played around FoW/counters this week (though, unfortunately for him, only one counterspell appeared in lists this week).

  6. #446

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    KOMBATKIWI ROUND 4: 51 POINTS
    LED
    Karakas
    Unburial Rites
    Iona

    Results Disagreement:
    spirit of the wretch

    1. Asthereal (Factory Grove PFire Mayor) play/draw turn 1 Iona on Green +6
    2. Wrath of Pie (Shelldock Chronomaton LED Ulamog) Lose. I can't play my Iona because it will get annihilated away but they can't combo off before I play anything because I will Karakas bounce Ulamog and then they will die to Iona. So they will hideaway the Ulamog and never play it but then I still can't play anything and I die to Chronomaton. Cool deck +0
    3. Whoshim (Hold Gargadon Electrodominance Balance) Turn 1 Iona on White (edit: or Red? why not :P) +6
    4. CptHaddock (Cathedral Inkmoth Maze Tabernacle) I can't attack through Maze but I can use Karakas to pay for Tabernacle and Inkmoth can't attack through Iona +2
    5. Jackabo (Pendelhaven Inkmoth Drop Field) Iona on Green +6
    6. Ace/Homebrew (Forge Pyrokinesis Unmask Macabre) Can't beat Faerie Macabre +0
    7. Spirit of the Wretch (Megaliths Carnarium Bridge Freebooter) They can play Bridge on their turn 4 which means that when I'm on the play they die to Iona. When I'm on the draw they get Bridge down before they die but with turn 1 Iona on Black the Freebooter is stuck in their hand and they can never get hellbent for Megaliths to kill me +4
    8. Strawberry Dwarf (City Scepter Charm Misstep) Iona on Green +6
    9. Tylert (Sphere Chronomaton City Field) On the play Iona races Chronomaton, on the draw I don't beat Sphere of Resistance +3
    10. FTW (City Sphere Chronomaton Chronomaton) Same as above +3
    11. H (Bayou Encroach Wolf Swords) On the play he can't beat Iona on the draw he takes my combo +3
    12. apple713 (City Scepter Trophy Overseer) Iona on Green +6
    13. PirateKing (Cavern Hierarch Peddler Swiftblade) If I'm on the play I play Iona on Green and you can't cast anything if I'm on the draw I name Red and I race exalted Peddler +6

    Iona was a good choice
    Inkwell would have only been better against the deck with Maze and lost a bunch of games that Iona won
    Karakas was irrelevant again though and I would have done better with the City tech from last week

    @WrathofPie: I think you win vs H even on the draw, if your opponent goes turn 1 Wolf Swords when they are on the play and then you keep Chronomaton Shelldock don't you win the game? You just play Shelldock on your turn 1 and then Chronomaton the next turn and you can race. (EDIT: Wrong, see a few posts below)

    Apple713 should be W/L vs the Shelldock deck I think
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 03-14-2019 at 04:37 AM.

  7. #447

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    2. Wrath of Pie (Shelldock Chronomaton LED Ulamog) Lose. I can't play my Iona because it will get annihilated away but they can't combo off before I play anything because I will Karakas bounce Ulamog and then they will die to Iona. So they will hideaway the Ulamog and never play it but then I still can't play anything and I die to Chronomaton. Cool deck +0
    Even funnier, you can bounce Ulamog but it has a cast trigger, so you have to Rites Iona back at some point (otherwise you lose your land and thus can't flashback Rites), then I can destroy her with Ulamog's cast trigger.

    @WrathofPie: I think you win vs H even on the draw, if your opponent goes turn 1 Wolf Swords when they are on the play and then you keep Chronomaton Shelldock don't you win the game? You just play Shelldock on your turn 1 and then Chronomaton the next turn and you can race
    Silly me forgot Mind Swords would exile his Encroach, that would do it.

    Apple713 should be W/L vs the Shelldock deck I think
    Shelldock enters tapped (hilariously, it is part of hideaway), so it is way too slow vs. Trophy on a Scepter.

  8. #448

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Silly me forgot Mind Swords would exile his Encroach, that would do it.
    Well it doesn't matter whether he keeps encroach in his hand or not because he doesn't have 2 mana to cast both Mind Swords and Encroach on his turn 1 anyway

    Shelldock enters tapped (hilariously, it is part of hideaway), so it is way too slow vs. Trophy on a Scepter.
    So you are agreeing with me right? You can still beat it when you are on the play because he can't cast trophy on his turn1 and you can play Ulamog on your turn 2
    It also means you should be WW vs Jackabo

    Turn 1 vs Trophy deck: LED, Shelldock, hideaway trigger on the stack crack crack LED, shuffle Chrono+LED+Ulamog, hideaway resolve put Ulamog under Shelldock, stack your deck putting LED on top (which you can do because Hideaway lets you put the remaining cards on the bottom in the order you choose).
    Opponent turn 1: Isochron
    Your turn 2: LED Ulamog

    The same line lets you win vs Jackabo even on the draw because they have no way to activate field of ruin on their second turn
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 03-14-2019 at 03:36 AM.

  9. #449
    Folk Punk Pirate
    spirit of the wretch's Avatar
    Join Date

    Oct 2007
    Location

    Mannheim, Germany
    Posts

    3,890

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @kombatkiwi: you are right. I can't Freebooter and ping you
    Sneaky Pirates of Doom - Not really a Legacy Team anymore.

  10. #450

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Actually maybe Shelldock doesn't beat Encroach on the draw, if H plays turn 1 Encroach on the play taking your Shelldock and you go for the LED reshuffle then by the 4CB rules the shuffle goes off in the worst possible order for you, meaning you draw Ulamog first and then Chronomaton, at which point these 2 cards get Mind Swordsed and then you lose. If you don't go for the turn 1 LED reshuffle then turn 2 Mind Swords exiles either LED or Ulamog (or both) and you have no way to get Shelldock back so you also lose. If you play turn 1 LED pass to play around turn 2 Mind Swords then you just die to 1/1 wolf beatdowns

  11. #451

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    This seasons deck:
    Pendelhaven Inkmoth Drop Field


    1. Asthereal (Factory Grove PFire Mayor) I playout my lands. If you ever play avabruck i kill it with drop. If you attack with factory you cant pfire,thus i get to attack for 2 infect with pendle pump,which races factory. If you hold up pfire i can attack and hold up pendlehaven.I think i win both on play and draw. WW +6 (6)
    2. Wrath of Pie (Shelldock Chronomaton LED Ulamog) [EDIT:I go with wraths results] WL +3 (9)
    3. Whoshim (Hold Gargadon Electrodominance Balance) Even on the draw FoR wins over dwarven hold. +6 (15)
    4. CptHaddock (Cathedral Inkmoth Maze Tabernacle) We were basically brewing the same deck :) If we race i think you win,since I need to destroy maze before i can kill you, and if I do i cant pump. So my best chance is to kill your nexus with FoR zand draw DD +2 (17)
    5. Jackabo (Pendelhaven Inkmoth Drop Field) ME
    6. Ace/Homebrew (Forge Pyrokinesis Unmask Macabre) Your best bet is to sac your wincon and kill my nexus, DD +2 (19)
    7. Spirit of the Wretch (Megaliths Carnarium Bridge Freebooter) Since each land comes into play tapped, they got 2 mana on turn 3 and 3 mana on turn 4. OTP they can take Drop with freebooter, next turn i Ruin their manland. They never get to play bridge and Inkomoth races Freeboter +6 WW (25)
    8. Strawberry Dwarf (City Scepter Charm Misstep) OTP if you just makes knights and pump last turn:t3 2 damage, t4 4 damage (6 total), t5 6 damage (10 total), t6 (pump) 10damage (20 total - kill). My clock is turn1 1inefct, turn2 3infect, turn3 5infect, turn4 7infect, turn5 9infect, turn6 11infct- kill. So we win the race when we start. WL +3 (28)
    9. Tylert (Sphere Chronomaton City Field) I dont think I can kill yourfieldwhile you're tappedout. So you get to chose to kill nexus or my green source to protect your guy. If you kill pendlehaven i raceyou, so you kill my guy, i kill your guy and we draw. DD +2 (30)
    10. FTW (City Sphere Chronomaton Chronomaton) Same as above DD +2 (32)
    11. H (Bayou Encroach Wolf Swords) OTP Enchroach must take my pendlehaven: if they would take nexus, i play pendlehaven and drop (or i loose it to swords anyway), this means he can't play swords or he will lose his undied-wolf, he cant play wolf or drop will kill it and stay on the battlefield,a nd then next turn i get to play FoR and kill his land and we draw. So they must take pendlehaven and i get to play land pass, he does his thing and i have no more cards.
    OTP i get to play nexus. They can take one land with or enchroach or land + drop with swords. Next turn i can attack with nexus and wins the race versus undied-wolf. WL +3 (35)
    12. apple713 (City Scepter Trophy Overseer) Cant beat turn2 tropthy since my FoR is too slow LL +0 (35)
    13. PirateKing (Cavern Hierarch Peddler Swiftblade) I present a 7 turn clock as best. On turn 3 i get to destoy your land stranding any remaining creatures. If you play more than one creature I play my drop and keep racing you.I dont see how you can win here. WW +6 (41)
    14 .KombatWiki (Iona enablers) I'm too slow and my removal don't beat iona. LL +0 (41)

    41points... I had such high hopes for this deck. I would have beaten any other fatty than Iona in the last game. Oh well. Scepter was very innovative, specially with the busted trophy.
    I certainly don't think FoR is TOO STRONG. It kills a land on turn 3. It practically only punishes storage lands, which is fine. I feel that encroach is more busted if we're talking LD. OTP it's oops i win versus many decks. On the other hand it trades with missteep and requires black so I guess it's OK. I'm for no bans!

  12. #452
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    1,091

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    FTW: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton

    1. Asthereal: Sphere wins. WW +6
    2. Wrath of Pie: OTP Sphere wins. OTD you can pay the tax. WL +3
    3. Whoshim: I'm faster OTP but not OTD. DL +1
    4. CptHaddock: I can't grow Chronos due to Tabernacle. Best case I hit for 1 a turn, outraced by exalted Inkmoth. LL +0
    5. JackaBo: See above. DD +2
    6. Ace/Homebrew: OTD even if you Unmask Sphere, I can play 1 Chrono at a time to beat Pyro+Goblin. WW +6
    7. spirit of the wretch: Sphere wins. WW +6
    8. Strawberry Dwarf: Sphere wins, 2nd Chrono gets there. WW +6
    9. Tylert: You have the better version of the mirror. LL +0
    10. FTW: Me
    11. H: OTP Sphere wins. OTD Encroach wrecks me. WL +3
    12. apple713: Sphere wins. WW +6
    13. PirateKing: Sphere stops your 2 drops. WW +6
    14. kombatkiwi: OTP Sphere wins. OTD Chronos too slow. WL +3

    Total = 48 pts

    Edit: Changed results for Wrath of Pie (WW to WL) and WhoSlim (DD to DL).
    Last edited by FTW; 03-14-2019 at 09:05 PM.

  13. #453
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    1,091

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    3. Whoshim: Dwarven Hold, Greater Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance

    Turn 1 - DH
    Turn 2 - 1 mana
    Turn 3 - Suspend or 2 mana
    Turn 4 - Electrodominance (with 1 in my hand) or 3 mana
    Turn 5 - Cast everything

    6-0 10. FTW: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton The sphere delays my combo by two turns (so turn 7), but you still cannot beat me before then, from what I can tell.
    If I lead with double Chrono, then yes I can't race Balance if you don't Suspend Gargadon first.

    Instead I play just 1 Chrono at first (and Sphere) and beatdown as a 2/2 or 3/3. If you Balance it away, I play the 2nd Chrono after and race Gargadon. If just suspend Gargadon and save the Balance, 1 Chrono outraces it. To avoid losing, you have to Balance away my 1st Chrono and sac DH to Gargadon to kill my City. Then I can't cast the 2nd Chrono. However you can't cast Gargadon through Sphere without a land. So we draw.

    BANNINGS:
    I'm fine with Field of Ruins. It has a steep enough design cost that only some decks can run it. 3 lands is limiting. Ancient Tomb deals you damage. City decks have to lead with T1 Field T2 City, otherwise they lose City too. (e.g. in TylerT's deck, if he goes T1 Sphere T2 Field then he can't cast Chrono; T2 Chrono T3 Field leaves Chrono a 1/1. To keep City he needs T2 Sphere T3 Field or T2 Field T3 Sphere. So there's a tempo cost, and Sphere is much worse not on turn 1). Field is a land destruction slot, which means running fewer threats or answers to nonland threats. It's been overperforming in our meta because cards like Chronomaton, Student of Warfare, Karakas, manlands and storage lands see a lot of play, which the decks that don't care about it (aggro, turn 1 combo) see little play. Sea's Claim would win most of those games, except against Chronomaton. He's a jerk.

    Encroach might need banning. Like Blackmail, stripping mana sources OTP is dirty. It hasn't put up results yet (OTD that deck can't beat anything on the board bigger than a 1/1...), but in a better deck it could be OP.

  14. #454

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I changed mymind regarding ulamog. It's the anihilator one.

  15. #455

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Instead I play just 1 Chrono at first (and Sphere) and beatdown as a 2/2 or 3/3. If you Balance it away, I play the 2nd Chrono after and race Gargadon. If just suspend Gargadon and save the Balance, 1 Chrono outraces it. To avoid losing, you have to Balance away my 1st Chrono and sac DH to Gargadon to kill my City. Then I can't cast the 2nd Chrono. However you can't cast Gargadon through Sphere without a land. So we draw.
    If I suspend Gargadon, Cast Electro, Cast Restore Balance, I have 0 cards in hand, so you have to pitch the 2nd Chrono. I can leave my land and yours in play so that I can pay for Gargadon when he comes off of suspend. And I believe I wrote turn 7 in my original, but I can play all three on turn 6 (play land; 1 mana; 2 mana; 3 mana; 4 mana; cast everything). Whatever you have not played by that point is ripped from your hand. Playing out both Chronos turn 1 and Sphere on turn 5 still does not allow you to deal 20 by turn 6 on the play, unless I am much mistaken. So I think I win both games.

  16. #456
    Site Contributor
    apple713's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2012
    Location

    Manhattan, NY
    Posts

    2,055

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Well it doesn't matter whether he keeps encroach in his hand or not because he doesn't have 2 mana to cast both Mind Swords and Encroach on his turn 1 anyway


    So you are agreeing with me right? You can still beat it when you are on the play because he can't cast trophy on his turn1 and you can play Ulamog on your turn 2
    It also means you should be WW vs Jackabo

    Turn 1 vs Trophy deck: LED, Shelldock, hideaway trigger on the stack crack crack LED, shuffle Chrono+LED+Ulamog, hideaway resolve put Ulamog under Shelldock, stack your deck putting LED on top (which you can do because Hideaway lets you put the remaining cards on the bottom in the order you choose).
    Opponent turn 1: Isochron
    Your turn 2: LED Ulamog

    The same line lets you win vs Jackabo even on the draw because they have no way to activate field of ruin on their second turn
    Because of random shuffle rules he draws Chronomaton before led and is 1 turn late activating shelldock.
    Play 4 Card Blind!

    Currently Playing
    Legacy: Dark Depths
    EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid

    Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi

    why cards are so expensive...hoarders

  17. #457
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,281

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Because of random shuffle rules he draws Chronomaton before led and is 1 turn late activating shelldock.
    Resolving the Hideaway from Shelldock Isle puts the unpicked cards on the bottom of your library, no shuffling, so there is no random effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  18. #458
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

    Join Date

    Jan 2013
    Location

    French Riviera
    Posts

    591

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    9. Tylert (Sphere Chronomaton City Field) I dont think I can kill yourfieldwhile you're tappedout. So you get to chose to kill nexus or my green source to protect your guy. If you kill pendlehaven i raceyou, so you kill my guy, i kill your guy and we draw. DD +2 (30)
    I forgot that you needed to land the 3 lands to kill my own FoD.
    So yeah 2-2.
    Death and taxes!!

    Play 4CB!

    Another Draft Blog

  19. #459

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    So you are agreeing with me right? You can still beat it when you are on the play because he can't cast trophy on his turn1 and you can play Ulamog on your turn 2
    It also means you should be WW vs Jackabo

    Turn 1 vs Trophy deck: LED, Shelldock, hideaway trigger on the stack crack crack LED, shuffle Chrono+LED+Ulamog, hideaway resolve put Ulamog under Shelldock, stack your deck putting LED on top (which you can do because Hideaway lets you put the remaining cards on the bottom in the order you choose).
    Opponent turn 1: Isochron
    Your turn 2: LED Ulamog

    The same line lets you win vs Jackabo even on the draw because they have no way to activate field of ruin on their second turn
    I learned something about hideaway today (that never comes up in 3CB), looks like I need to look at all my matchups again.

    EDIT: Hopefully I got all the matches right this time. I also win on the play against the Scepter/Selesnya Charm hand.

    EDIT2: I can cast LED through a Sphere with Shelldock mana and LED makes 3 mana and Shelldock only requires 1 to activate, that means I win against FTW on the play and force a draw against Tylert (has to sac City to play Field, which destroys Shelldock).

  20. #460
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    1,091

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    If I suspend Gargadon, Cast Electro, Cast Restore Balance, I have 0 cards in hand, so you have to pitch the 2nd Chrono. I can leave my land and yours in play so that I can pay for Gargadon when he comes off of suspend. And I believe I wrote turn 7 in my original, but I can play all three on turn 6 (play land; 1 mana; 2 mana; 3 mana; 4 mana; cast everything). Whatever you have not played by that point is ripped from your hand. Playing out both Chronos turn 1 and Sphere on turn 5 still does not allow you to deal 20 by turn 6 on the play, unless I am much mistaken. So I think I win both games.
    Ah right, you can beat my line.

    But dropping your hand costs 5 mana. Suspend = 1. Electrodominance = 3 (RR+1). Balance = 1 (0 +1). Sphere adds +2 basically.

    I just realized OTP I win this race.

    Me - Double Chrono
    You - DH

    Me - 2/2s
    You - 1 counter

    Me - 3/3s
    You - 2 counters

    Me - Sphere, Attack [14]
    You - 3 counters

    Me - Attack [8]
    You - 4 counters

    Me - Attack [2]
    You - 5 counters

    Me - Attack lethal.

    OTD I'm too slow.

    Edit: Fun fact. Double Chrono kills on turn 7 as 2/2s (5 hits of 4 dmg), 3/3s (4 hits of 6 dmg), 4/4s (3 hits of 8 dmg), or 5/5s (2 hits of 10 dmg) so it doesn't actually matter what size they are unless there are enemy blockers or I need to cast Sphere by a certain turn.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)