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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #701
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    This is an interesting round as it seems like everything except for Hís and Tylert's decks will be banned because of a 4 way tie at 18 points for 3rd place.
    Interesting indeed!

    Preliminary standings for the Vintage Bannathon, round 2 ("Ban (almost) all the decks!")

    Rank, user, score, season points
    1. Asthereal (TO): 34, 4,9
    2. FTW: 29, 4,1
    3. Wrath of Pie: 18, 2,6
    3. GoblinSmashmaster: 18, 2,6
    3. Whoshim: 18, 2,6
    3. apple713: 18, 2,6
    3. Tylert: 15, 2,1
    8. H: 8, 1,1

    Preliminary bannings for round 3 and onwards:
    Balance
    Burning Inquiry
    Cabal Therapy
    Chancellor of the Forge
    Chronomaton
    City of Traitors
    Crystal Vein
    Foil
    Iona, Shield of Emeria
    Island
    Karakas
    Lion's Eye Diamond
    Lupine Prototype
    Mox Jet
    Mox Pearl
    Nether Spirit
    Phyrexian Revoker
    Steel Overseer
    Strip Mine
    The Rack
    Unburial Rites
    Volcanic Island

    EDIT: Tylert's score was wrong in the Google sheet. Updated everything.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 04-25-2019 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #702
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I'm at 15, not 18. you can still play my deck next round :)
    Death and taxes!!

    Play 4CB!

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  3. #703

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy

    1. Asthereal (TO): Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge DD
    2. FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit DL
    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mox Pearl, Crystal Vein, Balance, The Rack WL - I barely outrace Rack on the play by never playing Strip Mine.
    5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer DL - Revoker does things!
    6. H: Mox Emerald, Lodestone Golem, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine WD
    7. Tylert: City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn WL
    8. apple713: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond WL

    4w5d = 17
    Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 04-25-2019 at 06:50 PM.

  4. #704
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    I'm at 15, not 18. you can still play my deck next round :)
    You're right. There was an error in the Google sheet. I updated everything.

  5. #705
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post

    Preliminary bannings for round 3 and onwards:
    Broken card #1
    Broken card #2
    ...
    Island
    ...
    More restricted list cards
    I get that Island is one of the most broken cards in the game, but are we banning basic lands too? This format could end very quickly. I assumed basics would be exempt.

  6. #706
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I get that Island is one of the most broken cards in the game, but are we banning basic lands too? This format could end very quickly. I assumed basics would be exempt.
    Iíll second this.
    Play 4 Card Blind!

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  7. #707

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    How would the format end quickly? There are a million and one ways to generate mana even without basic lands.

    Banning basic lands may arguably go against the spirit of MtG, but in this specific instance I fail to see how the format would become unplayable after a mere 8 rounds or so. There are dual lands, shock lands, pain lands, and countless cycles of enter-play-tapped lands.

    Iíd be more worried about the ban list becoming too long and cumbersome. It could make sense to ban a smaller percentage of top-performing decks. If there were decks in Round 2 that scored in the 30s, then I donít see a need to ban 18-point decks.

    Take with as many grains of salt as needed, since Iím just spectating.

  8. #708
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I get that Island is one of the most broken cards in the game, but are we banning basic lands too? This format could end very quickly. I assumed basics would be exempt.
    Actually, the Birds are right in this case. There are very many ways to produce blue mana.
    If we ban three blue mana producing lands every round, we'll still have plenty of options for round 12.
    Don't worry.

    Also, don't forget about Snow-Covered Island, which is a different card.
    Other cards you could use: Tropical Island, Minamo, School at Water's Edge, Seachrome Coast and so on.

    Yes, I'll be banning Island, and no, it won't make any difference whatsoever.
    All it does is ask our participants to be a little more creative than they have already been up to this point.


    Quote Originally Posted by BirdsOfParadise View Post
    Iíd be more worried about the ban list becoming too long and cumbersome. It could make sense to ban a smaller percentage of top-performing decks. If there were decks in Round 2 that scored in the 30s, then I donít see a need to ban 18-point decks.
    Neither do I, but the rules state I have to ban the top 4 scoring decks.
    If everybody scores the same amount of points, they all qualify, and therefore the cards they wielded must be banned.

    Yes, the banned list will become massive, but that's the whole point behind the bannathon.
    By the end of this thing, I'd like to see someone get stomped to death by a Brass Man.

  9. #709

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy

    5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer DD - Hands are never empty for Lupine Prototype (I never cast Therapy in that case), so one of Revoker/Overseer forces the draw.
    If I am on the play, I can drop a Revoker on your Mox. You play Strip Mine. You can either hit my land with Strip Mine or play Chronomaton. If you play Chronomaton, I can play my Overseer. If you destroy my land, you can never play your Chronomaton. If I get the Overseer and Revoker on the table, I will win against a 1/1 Chronomaton.

    If I am on the draw, you can hit me with Cabal Therapy. If you take the Revoker, this will force me to play the Overseer. You can use Strip Mine on my land so that the Overseer is my only threat. This leaves us with a Chronomaton + Mox Jet vs. Overseer, with you having the first turn. I think we have a draw at that point.

  10. #710

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    If I am on the play, I can drop a Revoker on your Mox. You play Strip Mine. You can either hit my land with Strip Mine or play Chronomaton. If you play Chronomaton, I can play my Overseer. If you destroy my land, you can never play your Chronomaton. If I get the Overseer and Revoker on the table, I will win against a 1/1 Chronomaton.

    If I am on the draw, you can hit me with Cabal Therapy. If you take the Revoker, this will force me to play the Overseer. You can use Strip Mine on my land so that the Overseer is my only threat. This leaves us with a Chronomaton + Mox Jet vs. Overseer, with you having the first turn. I think we have a draw at that point.
    Knew I was missing something, Revoker is not to be underestimated.

  11. #711

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    UPDATED due to new information from others.

    5. Whoshim: City of Traitors, Lupine Prototype, Phyrexian Revoker, Steel Overseer


    1. Asthereal (TO): Foil, Island, Nether Spirit, Chancellor of the Forge 2-2 CONFIRMED

    2. FTW: Volcanic Island, Burning Inquiry, Foil, Nether Spirit 1-4 CONFIRMED

    3. Wrath of Pie: Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Chronomaton, Cabal Therapy 4-1 Agreed with by Wrath of Pie, but Apple thought it was 2-2.

    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mox Pearl, Crystal Vein, Balance, The Rack 3-3 CONFIRMED

    6. H: Mox Emerald, Lodestone Golem, Mishra's Workshop, Strip Mine 4-1 CONFIRMED

    7. Tylert: City of traitors, lotus petal, show and tell, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 3-3 CONFIRMED

    8. apple713: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond 3-3 CONFIRMED

    I don't quite understand apple's description of my matchup with Wrath of Pie though:

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Draw both games.

    OTP

    because of strip mine you only get to play one card

    if you cast lupine first he will strip mine you and you cant cast anything or use lupine since he will hold cabal therapy. If you cast revoker naming chronomaton you draw because they can block eachother. If you cast overseer then you draw because they block eachother.

    OTD

    Oddly you arn't at a real disadvantage here. If he wants to therapy there is nothing advantageous for him to take since everything results in a draw. If he does cast it he must take lupine because this is the only card he can hold. He needs to play mox to cast chronomaton and stripmine to take your city. So he avoids playing it. Thus both games end in a draw.
    20 points as it stands now. That breaks the tie of decks at 18 points. :)


    Also, concerning the bans, I am happy with basics getting banned. Finally, a format that bans the most broken card in Magic history. :P

  12. #712
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    I don't quite understand apple's description of my matchup with Wrath of Pie though.
    This is what apple713 means:

    If City -> Prototype, then Mine the City, cast Mox, cast Chrono.
    Now both players keep a card in hand, so Prototype doesn't work and Chrono wins it.

    If City -> Revoker, name Chrono (note: must be non-land, so cannot name Mine), then Mine the City, cast Mox, cast Chrono.
    Chrono is now 1/1 and Revoker is 2/1, so Chrono blocks Revoker and both die for a draw.

    If City -> Overseer, then Mine the City, cast Mox, cast Chrono.
    Both will grow at the same rate and when one attacks, the other will be the same size, so it's a draw.

    This means that if you are on the play, there are two ways to make the draw.
    But this also means that with Wrath on the play, he can cast Therapy, but it doesn't help.
    There are two cards you can play for a draw, and he can only Therapy away one.
    You will always be able to cast the other one and secure the draw.

    BUT

    apple713 may have forgotten about an option: cast Revoker, and name Mox.

    If City -> Revoker, name Mox, Wrath can't use Strip Mine immediately to kill City, as he won't be able to cast Chrono anymore, and Revoker will just attack for the win.
    So Wrath has to use Mine to cast Chrono. Now you get to cast a second threat, and Wrath won't be able to recover.
    This means that (barring oversights on my part) you win on the play.

    On the draw things change a bit, as Wrath always gets a turn to use Mox for mana.
    Wrath: Cast Mox, play Mine, use Mox mana to cast Chrono. Keep Mine untapped and ready to use.
    You:
    a) City -> Prototype. Wrath Mines your City, both players have cards in hand so Proto doesn't work, Chrono will win.
    b) City -> Overseer. Wrath Mines your City, both creatures grow equally fast and it's a draw.
    c) City -> Revoker, name Chrono. Wrath Mines your City, Chrono is 1/1 and Revoker is 2/1 so they trade and it's a draw.
    d) City -> Revoker, name Mox. Wrath Mines your City, Chrono can't grow because no mana, but it's still a draw.

    As you can see, both you leading with Overseer and Revoker leads to a draw. Therefore using Therapy on either doesn't work.
    So on the draw, the game ends in a draw.

    I think it'll end in 4-1 for you.

  13. #713
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    I think it'll end in 4-1 for you.
    It also means Wrath's cards don't get banned because he ends up with 1 less point and in 5th place.

    Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Cabal Therapy, and my favorite creature stay unbanned.

  14. #714
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    It also means Wrath's cards don't get banned because he ends up with 1 less point and in 5th place.

    Strip Mine, Mox Jet, Cabal Therapy, and my favorite creature stay unbanned.
    I'll update everything before I announce round 3, which should be later today.
    Have to design my own deck first, which I haven't come around to just yet.

  15. #715
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post

    apple713 may have forgotten about an option: cast Revoker, and name Mox.
    Apple did forget :( thank for fixing that for me
    Play 4 Card Blind!

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  16. #716
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Apologies for the late start. Something came up. But...

    Round 3 of 4CB Season 2, the Vintage Bannathon, has started!

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 3, so you can start sending me your decks.
    You will find standings for round 2 and new bannings based on results from round 2 below.

    DEADLINE FOR ROUND 3: Wednesday the 1st of May, at 6:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time. Just send me the deck Tuesday evening latest, you'll be fine.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    - The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Goblin Guide, Mogg Fanatic, Pithing Needle, Cavern of Souls (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S02R01 in the topic. Many of you already did this for previous rounds. Thanks a lot, this really saves me the time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
    - The banned list (you'll find it in the second post and in the Google Spreadsheet). So keep an eye on what you send in.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Also, the Google Spreadsheet has been updated: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Happy deck designing everybody!


    Final standings for round 2:
    1. Asthereal (TO): 34, 4,857142857
    2. FTW: 29, 4,142857143
    3. Whoshim: 20, 2,857142857
    4. GoblinSmashmaster: 18, 2,571428571
    4. apple713: 18, 2,571428571
    6. Wrath of Pie: 17, 2,428571429
    7. Tylert: 15, 2,142857143
    8. H: 8, 1,142857143

    Bannings from round 3 onwards:
    Balance
    Burning Inquiry
    Chancellor of the Forge
    City of Traitors
    Crystal Vein
    Foil
    Iona, Shield of Emeria
    Island
    Karakas
    Lion's Eye Diamond
    Lupine Prototype
    Mox Pearl
    Nether Spirit
    Phyrexian Revoker
    Steel Overseer
    The Rack
    Unburial Rites
    Volcanic Island

    So that's still quite the list.

  17. #717
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Less than a day until the deadline. We have just 3 enties so far. Is everybody on holiday?

  18. #718
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    i'm there. will Send something tonight :)
    Death and taxes!!

    Play 4CB!

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  19. #719
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I'll be in soon, just trying to find the worst possible deck I can reasonably convince myself to play.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  20. #720
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I'll be in soon, just trying to find the worst possible deck I can reasonably convince myself to play.
    I just submitted worse ;-)

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  1. Wrath of Pie