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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #1881

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    3. Wrath of Pie: Pendelhaven, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck

    1. Asthereal (TO): Stomping Ground, Durkwood Baloth, Hexdrinker, Lava Dart WW - Lava Dart has to trade with Mayor (lol at Pendelhaven being relevant), which means you can't level up Hexdrinker past a certain point and my slow stream of Elks should overwhelm you.
    2. FTW: Temple Garden, Hexdrinker, Path to Exile, Judge's Familiar LL
    4. Moosedog: Inspiring vantage, Stromkirk noble, Path to exile, Student of warfare WL - Stromkirk Noble is quite good against Oko on the play.
    5. H: Goblin Guide, Lava Dart, Forge Devil, Mountain WW - Lava Dart seems to be popular this round.
    6. Tylert: Blooming Marsh, Noble hierarch, Mayor of avabruck, Duress LL - This might be DL, doing the math on this later.

    5w = 15 points

  2. #1882

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosedog View Post

    3. Wrath of Pie: Pendelhaven, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    Does stromkirk get counter attacking planewalker? I think you’ll get this need to play it out.
    Stromkirk should answer right on the card. (To answer your question, no.) However, making it an Elk is actually bad for me, so you should still beat me on the play.

  3. #1883
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    2. FTW: Temple Garden, Hexdrinker, Path to Exile, Judge's Familiar

    1. Asthereal (TO): You have to Dart the Familiar first and can only flashback after casting both threats, so I have a window to level up Hexdrinker first, but even OTP I don't get to L3 fast enough. LL 0-6
    3. Wrath of Pie: PtE takes care of Mayor whenever you play it and Hexdrinker kills Oko. WW 6-0
    4. Moosedog: See below. OTP I can race you. OTD I can't, but I can force a draw by trading an x/1 with Stromkirk Noble and Pathing Student. WD 4-1
    5. H: You would wreck 3 Hexdrinkers and I only have 1. LL 0-6
    6. Tylert: OTP I play Familiar first, which stops Duress, and I Path the Noble so you can never play Mayor. OTD you Duress the Path. Mayor gets out of hand before Hexdrinker gets there, and I can't play defense against 4/4 wolves (exalted). WL 3-3

    13 points (4 wins, 1 draw)


    FTW vs Moosedog: WD

    At worst I can draw both. e.g. I trade Judge's Familiar with Stromkirk before it grows, let you Path Hexdrinker, and Path your Student. Draw.
    If you Path the Familiar to get a Stromkirk hit through OTP, my 2/1 Hexdrinker can still stop 2/2 Stromkirk, then I Path Student. Draw.
    So you can't win. The question is can I get a win by using Judge's Familiar to protect Hexdrinker and racing with Hexdrinker?

    OTD
    You: Stromkirk Noble
    Me: Judge's Familiar [F=18] (play first to blank PtE)

    You: Student. Attack [F=17, 2/2] (I decline the trade, playing for the win)
    Me: Path the Noble. Attack with Familiar [M=19] (again, avoiding trading to play for the win)

    You: Level 1. Attack [F=16]
    Me: Hexdrinker. Attack with Familiar [M=18]

    You: Level 2. 3/3 Attack [F=13]
    Me: Level 1. Attack with both [M=15]

    You: Path trades with Familiar. [F=10] (if you race to Level 7, you lose the race, so you're better off killing Familiar now to reduce damage)
    Me: Level 2. Attack [M=13]

    You: Level 3. [F=7]
    Me: Level 3. 4/4 [M=9]

    You: Level 4. [F=4]
    Me: Level 4. [M=5]

    You: Level 5. [F=1]
    Me: Level 5. Hold on defense (1 damage off killing you, bc you killed Familiar early)

    You: Level 6.
    Me: Level 6.

    You: Level 7. 4/4 double strike. Attack & win.

    Therefore I can't race OTD, so I have to draw.


    OTP the extra turn makes a big difference!

    Me: Judge's Familiar [F=18]
    You: Stromkirk Noble

    Me: Hexdrinker. Attack with Familiar [M=19]
    You: Student. Attack [F=17, 2/2] (I decline the trade, playing for the win)

    Me: Path Noble. Attack with Familiar [M=18]
    You: Level 1. Attack [F=16]

    Me: Level 1. Attack with both [M=15]
    You: Level 2. 3/3. Attack [F=13]

    Me: Level 2. Attack with both [M=12]
    You: Path trades with Familiar [F=10]

    Me: Level 3. 4/4 [M=8]
    You: Level 3. [F=7]

    Me: Level 4. [M=4]
    You: Level 4. Can't attack.

    Me: Level 5. Student chumps, then I win next turn.

    So this should be WD 4-1 for me.

  4. #1884

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I should read Judge's Familiar more closely, it is no good at countering planeswalker spells like I wanted it to be. Doing math vs. FTW:

    F: Temple Garden, Hexdrinker
    W: Pendelhaven
    F: Judge's Familiar, attack for 2 (W@ 18)
    W: Growth Chamber
    F: Hexdrinker l1, attack for 3 (W@ 15)
    W: Pendelhaven, Oko, create Food (Oko @ 7)
    F: Hexdrinker l2, attack Oko for 3 (Oko @ 4)
    W: Make Hexdrinker into 3/3 (Oko @ 5)
    F: attack Oko for 4 (Oko @ 1)
    W: Make Food into 3/3 (Oko @ 2)

    From here I would win, because either you Path my Elk and lose to Mayor or you just let Oko beat you.

    Leveling Hexdrinker ASAP:

    F: Temple Garden, Hexdrinker
    W: Pendelhaven
    F: Hexdrinker l1, attack for 2 (W@ 18)
    W: Growth Chamber
    F: Hexdrinker l2, attack for 2 (W@ 16)
    W: Pendelhaven, Oko, create Food (Oko @ 7)
    F: Hexdrinker l3, attack Oko for 4 (Oko @ 3)
    W: Make Hexdrinker into 3/3 (Oko @ 4)
    F: Judge's Familiar, attack Oko for 3 (Oko @ 1)
    W: Make Food into 3/3 (Oko @ 2)

    Same as above.

    Looks like I had that result backwards.

  5. #1885
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Oko starts at 4 counters.
    Making the first Food puts Oko @ 6, not 7. So Oko should be at 1 fewer counter and would die in both of those lines.

    If I'm able to keep either a Familiar, a Hexdrinker, or a 3/3 Elk after killing Oko then literally any body is enough to win.

  6. #1886

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Oko starts at 4 counters.
    Making the first Food puts Oko @ 6, not 7. So Oko should be at 1 fewer counter and would die in both of those lines.

    If I'm able to keep either a Familiar, a Hexdrinker, or a 3/3 Elk after killing Oko then literally any body is enough to win.
    I stand corrected, I am good at reading cards today.

  7. #1887
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    H: Goblin Guide, Lava Dart, Forge Devil, Mountain

    1. Asthereal (TO): Stomping Ground, Durkwood Baloth, Hexdrinker, Lava Dart
    Not answer to a 4/4. 0-6

    2. FTW: Temple Garden, Hexdrinker, Path to Exile, Judge's Familiar
    1 toughness not good vs my deck. 6-0

    3. Wrath of Pie: Pendelhaven, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    I can't beat any combination of those cards. 0-6

    4. Moosedog: Inspiring vantage, Stromkirk noble, Path to exile, Student of warfare
    I think 6-0 here.

    5. H: Bye, myself.

    6. Tylert: Blooming Marsh, Noble hierarch, Mayor of avabruck, Duress
    All 1 toughness creatures again. 6-0

    Sorry for the delay, looks like 18 for me?
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  8. #1888
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    No results from Tylert yet, and there are two question marks:
    His result against Wrath of Pie and Moosedog are unclear still.
    Standings for the round will be posted as soon as these two matches are resolved.

    Meantime, looks like regardless of those results, I'll be clinching this round.
    This leads to the banning of: Stomping Ground, Durkwood Baloth, Hexdrinker and of course the mightly Lava Dart.

    I'll be building my deck soon. Expect round 11 to start shortly.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  9. #1889
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    And shortly turns into now:

    ROUND 11 of SEASON 5: MODERN MADNESS has started.

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 11, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 25th of March, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Mountain, Blightspeaker, Combust (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S05R11 in the topic.
    Many of you already do this. Thanks a lot, this really saves me a lot of time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
    Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. It will grow every round. You'll find the banned list in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.

    Happy deck designing everybody!
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  10. #1890

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    BTW I LL to Tylert, he either attacks with a 4/4 Wolf or forces a trade of Wolves, and I can never meaningfully counter.

    Moosedog vs. Tylert comes down to whether or not Moosedog can outrace Tylert, Path slows down Tylert by a turn because he has to Duress it away.

    T: Duress on Path
    M: Stromkirk Noble
    T: Noble Hierarch
    M: Student, attack with Noble (2/2) (T @ 19)
    T: Mayor
    M: Student l1, attack with both (3/3 Noble) (T @ 16), Mayor transforms
    T: attack with Mayor (M @ 16), create Wolf token 1

    From here Student grows too slowly to keep up with a four-turn clock via lone attacking Wolves.

    Moosedog on the play makes a bit of a difference:

    M: Stromkirk Noble
    T: Duress on Path
    M: Student, attack with Noble (2/2) (T @ 19)
    T: Noble Hierarch
    M: Student l1, attack with both (3/3 Noble) (T @ 16)
    T: Mayor
    M: Student l2, attack with both (4/4 Noble) (T @ 10), Mayor transforms
    T: attack with Mayor (M @ 16), create Wolf token 1
    M: Student l3, attack with both (5/5 Noble) (T @ 2)
    T: no attack, create Wolf token 2
    M: Student l4

    Attacking with both creatures leads to a chump on Student with Hierarch and Wolves trading with Noble, and Student never gets through again. Attacking with one creature forces a block, but the double block is still there which is a poor trade for Moosedog. Thus, Moosedog cannot attack anymore, because it leads to him losing, and this means Tylert has all the time to make an army of Wolves for one attack.

    Therefore, Tylert WWs Moosedog.

  11. #1891
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    BTW I LL to Tylert, he either attacks with a 4/4 Wolf or forces a trade of Wolves, and I can never meaningfully counter.

    Moosedog vs. Tylert comes down to whether or not Moosedog can outrace Tylert, Path slows down Tylert by a turn because he has to Duress it away.

    T: Duress on Path
    M: Stromkirk Noble
    T: Noble Hierarch
    M: Student, attack with Noble (2/2) (T @ 19)
    T: Mayor
    M: Student l1, attack with both (3/3 Noble) (T @ 16), Mayor transforms
    T: attack with Mayor (M @ 16), create Wolf token 1

    From here Student grows too slowly to keep up with a four-turn clock via lone attacking Wolves.

    Moosedog on the play makes a bit of a difference:

    M: Stromkirk Noble
    T: Duress on Path
    M: Student, attack with Noble (2/2) (T @ 19)
    T: Noble Hierarch
    M: Student l1, attack with both (3/3 Noble) (T @ 16)
    T: Mayor
    M: Student l2, attack with both (4/4 Noble) (T @ 10), Mayor transforms
    T: attack with Mayor (M @ 16), create Wolf token 1
    M: Student l3, attack with both (5/5 Noble) (T @ 2)
    T: no attack, create Wolf token 2
    M: Student l4

    Attacking with both creatures leads to a chump on Student with Hierarch and Wolves trading with Noble, and Student never gets through again. Attacking with one creature forces a block, but the double block is still there which is a poor trade for Moosedog. Thus, Moosedog cannot attack anymore, because it leads to him losing, and this means Tylert has all the time to make an army of Wolves for one attack.

    Therefore, Tylert WWs Moosedog.
    Awesome, thanks!

    I'll write these down and post the standings tomorrow.
    If someone still finds better lines, we'll probably see them appear here somehow.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  12. #1892
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Preliminary standings for round 10:
    1. Asthereal (TO): 24 - 4,8
    2. H: 18 - 3,6
    3. Wrath of Pie: 15 - 3
    3. Tylert: 15 - 3
    5. FTW: 13 - 2,6
    6. Moosedog: 4 - 0,8

    Which would lead to the following standings in the season:
    1. Asthereal (TO): 36,8
    2. Tylert: 29,1
    3. FTW: 28,7
    4. H: 24,9
    5. Wrath of Pie: 21,8
    6. Moosedog: 10

    Who's gonna catch me?


    Submissions for round 11 have already openend (see a few posts up), so don't forget to send me your decks!
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  13. #1893
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Sorry guys and thanks for calculations.
    It's a mess at work with Covid-19 right now so i don't have time for long analysis... too bad, that's the fun part of the game with deckbuilding.
    But i posted something easy for next round :)

  14. #1894
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I just realized that the lands in the list I submitted make no damn sense. That's what I get for mashing two subpar ideas together. Oh well, unlikely I get them banned,
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  15. #1895
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I just realized that the lands in the list I submitted make no damn sense. That's what I get for mashing two subpar ideas together. Oh well, unlikely I get them banned,
    You have 20 minutes to send me a new deck with different lands, if you like.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  16. #1896
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    All decks are in, and H is either too busy or doesn't care enough to change his lands.
    I don't think it matters anyway, so let's go!

    DECKS FOR ROUND 11 OF SEASON 5: MODERN MADNESS

    1. Asthereal (TO): Blackcleave Cliffs, Evil Presence, Cruel sadist, Forge Devil
    2. Wrath of Pie: Pendelhaven, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    3. Tylert: Mountain, Rakdos carnarium, Ensnaring bridge, Granite shard
    4. H: Blackcleave Cliffs, Inspiring Vantage, Despise, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    5. Moosedog: Plains, Student of warfare, Gut shot, Mutagenic growth
    6. FTW: Concealed Courtyard, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile, Evil Presence

    Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
    I'll update the Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Also, more ideas for season 6 are still welcome.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  17. #1897
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Asthereal's results for round 11:

    1. Asthereal (TO): Blackcleave Cliffs, Evil Presence, Cruel sadist, Forge Devil
    That's me, borrowing ideas from others, as usual.
    2. Wrath of Pie: Pendelhaven, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    Presence the Chamber, so you can't cast Oko and have to tap out to cast Mayor, which then dies to Forge Devil. Sadist wins it. 6-0
    3. Tylert: Mountain, Rakdos carnarium, Ensnaring bridge, Granite shard
    Presence the Canarium. Really? Canaries in Rakdos? Doesn't seem to fit at all, but okay. Oh wait, it's Rakdos CaRnarium. That makes more sense. Anyway, you can't cast anything afterwards, and Sadist wins it. 6-0
    4. H: Blackcleave Cliffs, Inspiring Vantage, Despise, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    OTP I open with Sadist and win it. OTD you Despise my Sadist, and wait to play your white land and Thalia, which leads to me holding back Devil and we draw. 4-1
    5. Moosedog: Plains, Student of warfare, Gut shot, Mutagenic growth
    I wait. If you cast Student, I Presence your land. Then I cast Devil and try to kill your Student. You save it with Growth. Then I cast Sadist. You Gut Shot Sadist and Student and Devil trade for two draws? 2-2
    6. FTW: Concealed Courtyard, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile, Evil Presence
    If you fast Student first, I kill it with Devil and win, so you have to wait.
    If I cast Sadist first, you can Presence my land and stop Devil from landing, but then I Presence your land and stop Path and Student.
    Or you can Path my Sadist first, and which I still Presence your land. But then Devil will kill itself, so I can't win anymore.
    I don't see playable lines that lead to wins yet. Maybe I'll look some more later on, but I think we probably draw both games, so 2-2 for now.

    Total: 20 points
    Last edited by Asthereal; 03-25-2020 at 08:28 AM.
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  18. #1898
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Aaaaahhh Easy maths this time :) (I sent this specifically to not have to do complex maths as I don't have time for these)

    1. Asthereal (TO): Blackcleave Cliffs, Evil Presence, Cruel sadist, Forge Devil
    2. Wrath of Pie: Pendelhaven, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    3. Tylert: Mountain, Rakdos carnarium, Ensnaring bridge, Granite shard
    4. H: Blackcleave Cliffs, Inspiring Vantage, Despise, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    5. Moosedog: Plains, Student of warfare, Gut shot, Mutagenic growth
    6. FTW: Concealed Courtyard, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile, Evil Presence

    1. Asthereal: Evil presence carnarium and you win each time. 0-6 --> 0
    2. Wrath of Pie: Oko can transform both my artifacts into elks before i can do anything to mayor. 0-6 --> 0.
    3. Me.
    4. H: Play thalia and win. 0-6 --> 0.
    5. Moosedog: I play ensnaring bridge and win from there. 6-0 --> 6.
    6. FTW: Evil presence is evil. 0-6 --> 6.

    Total 6 points. Yeah i know i was giving away this round. Enjoy your points.

  19. #1899
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    You have 20 minutes to send me a new deck with different lands, if you like.
    Oh, yeah, it makes no real difference!

    H: Blackcleave Cliffs, Inspiring Vantage, Despise, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

    1. Asthereal (TO): Blackcleave Cliffs, Evil Presence, Cruel sadist, Forge Devil
    My own Forge Devil tech gets me, but I guess on the Play I can leave you with just Forge Devil and then wait for you to cast it. 1-4

    2. Wrath of Pie: Pendelhaven, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    Despise takes Mayor, Thalia prevents Oko being cast, 6-0.

    3. Tylert: Mountain, Rakdos carnarium, Ensnaring bridge, Granite shard
    Thalia does work here, 6-0.

    4. H: Bye, myself.

    5. Moosedog: Plains, Student of warfare, Gut shot, Mutagenic growth
    On the Play, Despise gets me a draw. Otherwise I lose. 1-4

    6. FTW: Concealed Courtyard, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile, Evil Presence
    On the Play, Despise takes Student, Path can't be cast so I win. On the Draw, Student will eventually grow and win. 3-3

    17 it looks like?
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

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