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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #1841
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Against Moosedog, Vanguard cost 1W. so review your math :)
    I'm an idiot. I'll have another look in a minute.
    EDIT: Doesn't actually matter. He's still faster OTP and has to take the draw OTD.
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  2. #1842

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    4. Wrath of Pie: Mage-Ring Network, Urza's Factory, Hangarback Walker, Walking Ballista

    1. Asthereal (TO): Treetop Village, Selesnya Sanctuary, Loxodon Smiter, Knight of Autumn LL
    2. Moosedog: Plains, Pendelhaven, Basilisk Collar, Adanto Vanguard LL - Deathtouch and lifelink are potent, and Walking Ballista is not fast enough to deal with Vanguard.
    3. Tylert: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Elixir of Immortality, Abrupt Decay LL
    5. H: Forest, Gilded Goose, Island, Oko, Thief of Crowns LL
    6. FTW: Inspiring Vantage, Spirebluff Canal, Stromkirk Noble, Meddling Mage WL

    1w = 3 points

  3. #1843
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    6. FTW: Inspiring Vantage, Spirebluff Canal, Stromkirk Noble, Meddling Mage

    1. Asthereal (TO): OTP I play Noble. You play tapped land. I play Meddling Mage naming Smiter and Noble becomes 2/2. You play tapped Sanctuary, returning Village. Noble becomes 3/3 [A=15]. You play tapped Village. Noble becomes 4/4 [A=10]. You play Knight of Autumn as a 4/3. Now you're forced on defense to draw.
    OTD you play Village, I play Noble. You play Sanctuary, I play Mage naming Smiter and Noble becomes 2/2 [A=19]. You play tapped Village. Noble becomes 3/3 [A=15]. You play Knight of Autumn as a 4/3. I decline the trade and don't attack. Can I force a draw here because I'm ahead in life? You can't let me get through with Noble.
    For now LD 1-4
    I have added more analysis for our matchup to my post.
    I think I win OTP, but I might be missing lines still. Let me know what you can find.
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  4. #1844
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Preliminary scores for round 8:

    1. Tylert: 25 - 5
    2. H: 21 - 4,2
    3. FTW: 14 - 2,8
    4. Moosedog: 13 - 2,6
    5. Asthereal (TO): 11 - 2,2
    6. Wrath of Pie: 3 - 0,6

    Which leads to the banning of Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Elixir of Immortality and Abrupt Decay.

    Unless someone still finds new lines which change the scores and rob Tylert of a deserved victory for this particular round.
    Let's hope that doesn't happen, because I'll be building my deck for next round very soon, and I don't want to have to redo all that work.

    But don't let my troubles stop you from executing 4CB rule number one: Everybody plays optimally. If a better line is found, that line is played.
    We're playing a game. If we stop abiding by that game's rules, we might as well resort to throwing dice.


    EDIT: If these scores are correct, the standings after round 8 look like this:
    1. Asthereal (TO): 30
    2. Tylert: 23,3
    3. FTW: 21,5
    4. H: 19,7
    5. Wrath of Pie: 17
    6. Moosedog: 6

    So Tylert reclaims second place, and H climbs a place as well. Also, my lead dwindles a bit.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 03-05-2020 at 07:04 PM.
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  5. #1845
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    ROUND 9 of SEASON 5: MODERN MADNESS has started.

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 9, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 11th of March, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Mountain, Blightspeaker, Combust (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S05R09 in the topic.
    Many of you already do this. Thanks a lot, this really saves me a lot of time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
    Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. It will grow every round. You'll find the banned list in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.

    Happy deck designing everybody!
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  6. #1846
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    About 24 hours until the deadline, we're at 4 entries. Don't miss out.

    Also, I'm starting to think about next season.
    Interest seems to be dwindling a bit, but I'd like to do one more at least.

    Perhaps it'd be cool to do a season with weird versions of 4CB.
    As in: add a rule to every round. I have a few in mind already.
    For instance: creatures don't deal damage to players.
    Perhaps that one's a little limiting. But you get the idea.
    I guess we should probably start with a basis, like Legacy with existing banned list.
    Then for every round I will beforehand explain the rule change.

    What do you guys think? Fun idea?
    If so, please post your fun ideas for weird rules to make cool rounds with.



    To get you guys going, here's a few ideas I had:
    - Tribal (your deck has to contain at least two creatures of the same creature type)
    - Zooölogy (you can only win the game by dealing combat damage with creatures of a creature type typically found at a zoo)
    - Deja vu (all spells can be cast from graveyards - if you do, the card gains "if this card would be put in a graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead")
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  7. #1847
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I'm out of town once again for this round with nor real time to theorize... so i sent you a place holder.
    For now, I like the modern 4CB and I think we could probably do a few more rounds.
    ALso, i'm in for the whacky ideas. Everyone could submit random ideas also.

  8. #1848

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    About 24 hours until the deadline, we're at 4 entries. Don't miss out.

    Also, I'm starting to think about next season.
    Interest seems to be dwindling a bit, but I'd like to do one more at least.

    Perhaps it'd be cool to do a season with weird versions of 4CB.
    As in: add a rule to every round. I have a few in mind already.
    For instance: creatures don't deal damage to players.
    Perhaps that one's a little limiting. But you get the idea.
    I guess we should probably start with a basis, like Legacy with existing banned list.
    Then for every round I will beforehand explain the rule change.

    What do you guys think? Fun idea?
    If so, please post your fun ideas for weird rules to make cool rounds with.



    To get you guys going, here's a few ideas I had:
    - Tribal (your deck has to contain at least two creatures of the same creature type)
    - Zooölogy (you can only win the game by dealing combat damage with creatures of a creature type typically found at a zoo)
    - Deja vu (all spells can be cast from graveyards - if you do, the card gains "if this card would be put in a graveyard from anywhere, exile it instead")
    Zoology includes Humans, after all they are typically found as visitors. I think Ensnaring Bridge probably breaks that format, though.

    One of my favorite formats in the past was TOME (The One Mana Experience), you add a mana of any type each turn and this mana doesn't empty, it probably powers up 2-mana discard a lot though and there are quite a few good options. Since you are going one format a round, restrictions would work better as a general rule to distinguish the rounds from each other.

  9. #1849
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Well, it is not "wacky" but I'd like to see the effect on Vintage, or Legacy 4CB where one doesn't draw cards for turns, which cuts off most recursive things and also the absurd power of things like Thassa's Oracle, Lab Man and that tipple-U Jace.

    Or, Planechase 4CB. Every round starts on a random Plane and we build from there. No Chaos symbol effects though, since that would not be doable, but gives each round some unique character to build around. Card pool could be whatever, really.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  10. #1850
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Deadline has passed and it looks like I have everybody, so here we go:

    DECKS FOR ROUND 9 OF SEASON 5: MODERN MADNESS

    1. Asthereal (TO): Temple Garden, Hexdrinker, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile
    2. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mutavault, Shrieking Affliction, Smallpox
    3. Wrath of Pie: Faerie Conclave, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    4. Moosedog: Evil presence, Cruel sadist, Path to exile, Concealed courtyard
    5. Tylert: Concealed courtyard, Student of warfare, Path of exile, Duress
    6. H: Temple Garden, Noble Hierarch, Student of Warfare, Mayor of Avabruck

    Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
    I'll update the Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Also, more ideas for season 6 are still welcome.
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  11. #1851

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    3. Wrath of Pie: Faerie Conclave, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck

    1. Asthereal (TO): Temple Garden, Hexdrinker, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile WW
    2. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mutavault, Shrieking Affliction, Smallpox LL
    4. Moosedog: Evil presence, Cruel sadist, Path to exile, Concealed courtyard LL
    5. Tylert: Concealed courtyard, Student of warfare, Path of exile, Duress LL
    6. H: Temple Garden, Noble Hierarch, Student of Warfare, Mayor of Avabruck WW? - I should win if I get to trade Food for a flipped Mayor, the question is if I survive long enough.

    4w = 12 points
    Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 03-11-2020 at 07:26 PM.

  12. #1852
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Asthereal scores, really quickly during busy work times, so probably contains 17 errors. Be sure to correct me.

    1. Asthereal (TO): Temple Garden, Hexdrinker, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile
    Boring uninspired snorefest of a deck.
    2. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mutavault, Shrieking Affliction, Smallpox
    Yeah, I did not meta against this, this round. 0-6
    3. Wrath of Pie: Faerie Conclave, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    It seems I'm not fast enough here. I Path Mayor, my Hexdude is fast enough to grow and attack Oko, but you double block and then Student is too slow. 0-6
    4. Moosedog: Evil presence, Cruel sadist, Path to exile, Concealed courtyard
    I play nothing until you cast your dude, then I Path it afterwards. You Presence my land and we draw. 2-2
    5. Tylert: Concealed courtyard, Student of warfare, Path of exile, Duress
    You Duress my Path and Path my Hexdude before it becomes immune. My Student trades with yours for two draws? 2-2
    6. H: Temple Garden, Noble Hierarch, Student of Warfare, Mayor of Avabruck
    I Path your Hierarch. Your Student trades with mine and I keep a Hexdude to win it. 6-0

    Total: 10 points


    Against Wrath

    A: Temple (A=18), Hex
    W: Conclave
    A: Hex=L1, Attack, W=18
    W: Chamber
    A: Hex=L2, Attack, W=16
    W: Conclave, cast Mayor
    A: Path Mayor, attack, W=14
    W: Cast Oko, +2 make food, Oko=L6
    A: Hex=L3 (4/4), attack Oko, Oko=L2
    W: Oko +1 (L3) make food into 3/3
    A: Attack Oko, activate Conclave, double block, all die, cast Student
    W: Oko +2 make food, Oko=L5
    A: Student=L1, attack Oko, Oko=L4
    W: Oko +1, turn food into 3/3, Oko=L5
    A: Student=L2 (3/3 first strike), attack Oko, Oko=L2
    W: Oko +2, make food, Oko=L4
    A: Student=L3, attack Oko, Oko=L1
    W: Make food into second 3/3 dude, Oko=L2
    A: Student=L4, attack, you double block with both 3/3 food guys and proceed to win.

    Yup, that seems to work.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 03-12-2020 at 05:07 AM.
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  13. #1853
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @Wrath: I see we both think we beat eachother 6-0.
    What lines did you have in mind?
    I posted mine quickly, but I might be missing a few things.
    Perhaps you can try something with your Conclave? I don't see it yet though.
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  14. #1854
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    H: Temple Garden, Noble Hierarch, Student of Warfare, Mayor of Avabruck

    1. Asthereal (TO): Temple Garden, Hexdrinker, Student of Warfare, Path to Exile
    Not seeing how I win this. I can't bait the Path with Student, because you can match that with a Hexdrinker. So, as soon as I play the Noble, it gets Pathed and I can't Mayor. Then I lose to another level-up body. 0-6

    2. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mutavault, Shrieking Affliction, Smallpox
    I think this comes down to if I can get Mayor or not. On the Play, I can, on the Draw, I can't. 3-3

    3. Wrath of Pie: Faerie Conclave, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    This is complicated, I think.

    When I am on the Play:
    T1 H: Garden, untapped, [H=18], Hierarch.
    T1 WoP: Conclave.

    T2 H: Early inflection point here. Is the play Student, or Mayor? If Student, I get to go to Level 1 and pass. If I play Mayor, it will flip on my next turn, and make me a Wolf at end of next turn. Let us see what happens if I Mayor. So, Mayor and pass.
    T2 WoP: Chamber, return Conclave, pass.

    T3 H: Mayor flips, play Student, go to Level 1 and attack for 4 [WoP=16], get a Wolf EOT.
    T3 WoP: Play Mayor, Conclave tapped.

    T4 H: Level Student to 3, so now I have 3/3 Mayor, 3/3 Wolf, 3/3 Student. Attack with all, blocking would seem bad, so [WoP=7], make a Wolf.
    T4 WoP: Mayor flips. Play Oko, make a Food [Oko=6 loyalty]. Attacking would be very bad, so make Wolf EOT.

    T5 H: Student to Level 5. Now I have 3/3 Student, 3/3 Mayor, and two 3/3 Wolf tokens. If I attack WoP, a block on a Token with a Token would then result in 9 damage and a loss. So the Mayor must block something. If it trades with my Mayor, Oko could then steal my Student for the Food, or could make the Food a 3/3. Stealing seems bad, since the Student would be tapped and then there is only one Blocker and WoP is at 1. So, making the Food a 3/3 seems like the best course. So, lets play it out with that. So, Mayor trades for Mayor, Token for Token, [WoP=1].
    T5 WoP: As we said, stealing a tapped Student would be bad, making Student a 3/3 doesn't change that 2 blockers are needed, so make Food a 3/3 and pass [Oko=7].

    T6 H: Make Student Level 7. Attack with 2/2 Token and Student. The 3/3 can block the 2/2, and the Conclave chumps the Student.
    T6 WoP: Oko can't steal Student still, so it is either make Food and pass or make Student an Elk.

    In the case of making the Food:
    T7 H: Attack with Student, must be chumped with the Elk, since eating the Food isn't enough life to survive.
    T7 WoP: Trade Food for Student, but Student is tapped, so Hierarch would attack for 1 and win. Making a Food doesn't win, because Student is a 5/5 double strike. Lets go back to T6 then and make Student an Elk.

    T6 WoP: Make Student an Elk.

    T7 H: Attack with 4/4 Elk, it must be chumped because WoP is still at 1.
    T7 WoP: Make a Food, go to 4.

    T8 H: Attack for 4 with Elk. So I think I do win on the Play. 3-3?

    This was surprisingly complicated. I'd guess I just lose on the Draw though.

    4. Moosedog: Evil presence, Cruel sadist, Path to exile, Concealed courtyard
    I don't think I can beat this, because I can be denied White mana and Mayor in every case. 0-6

    5. Tylert: Concealed courtyard, Student of warfare, Path of exile, Duress
    Student staredown? Not sure, need to think more. ?-?

    6. H: Bye, myself.

    This was a surprisingly complicated round, I think.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  15. #1855
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    @Wrath: I see we both think we beat eachother 6-0.
    What lines did you have in mind?
    I posted mine quickly, but I might be missing a few things.
    Perhaps you can try something with your Conclave? I don't see it yet though.
    Wrath, as of now, has himself down for two loses to you.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  16. #1856
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    1. Asthereal – Agree with your assessment, draw both games. DD
    2. FTW – There was a second where I thought I could turn mutavault into a swamp to mess with you, but no. You win both games . LL
    3. Wrath – Presence on Chamber stops you from playing anything. WW
    4. ME.
    5. Tylert: You duress the presence and we trade paths. DD
    6. H: I believe I can path the noble and then presence the garden before you can level up so I will win the race. WW

  17. #1857

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    @Wrath: I see we both think we beat eachother 6-0.
    What lines did you have in mind?
    I posted mine quickly, but I might be missing a few things.
    Perhaps you can try something with your Conclave? I don't see it yet though.
    Conclave can block with an Elk to trade with 4/4 Hexdrinker, which might be a problem for you.

  18. #1858

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Against Wrath

    A: Temple (A=18), Hex
    W: Conclave
    A: Hex=L1, Attack, W=18
    W: Chamber
    A: Hex=L2, Attack, W=16
    W: Conclave, cast Mayor
    A: Path Mayor, attack, W=14
    if W: Oko, +1 make Hex 3/3 no abilities
    A: Cast Student, attack Oko with Hex for 3, Oko=L2, the proceed to kill Oko
    if W: Oko, +2 make food
    A: Hex=L3 (4/4), attack Oko, Oko=L2
    W: Oko +1 (L3) make food into 3/3
    A: Attack Oko, W has to block. The proceed to kill Oko and then W.
    If I make Food and then make it a 3/3, then I can double-block with Conclave and the Food and then I should be able to do something against Student.

    I think I am too fast for you to wait until 6/6 Hexdrinker, because Oko will just trade Food for the Hexdrinker if you choose to hold back.

    W: Conclave
    A: Temple (A=18), Hex
    W: Chamber
    A: Hex=L1, Attack, W=18
    W: Conclave, cast Mayor
    A: Path Mayor, attack, W=16
    W: Oko, +2 make food
    A: Hex=L2, attack Oko, Oko=L4
    W: Oko +1, make food into a 3/3, Oko=L5
    A: Hex=L3 (4/4), attack Oko, Oko=L1
    From here I cast Student, and Level up until 3/3 first strike.
    Hex as 4/4 keeps attacking Oko, and gets joined when Student is big enough.
    Should still win, I think.
    Again, the double-block deals with Hexdrinker as a 4/4.

  19. #1859

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post

    3. Wrath of Pie: Faerie Conclave, Simic Growth Chamber, Oko, Thief of Crowns, Mayor of Avabruck
    This is complicated, I think.

    When I am on the Play:
    T1 H: Garden, untapped, [H=18], Hierarch.
    T1 WoP: Conclave.

    T2 H: Early inflection point here. Is the play Student, or Mayor? If Student, I get to go to Level 1 and pass. If I play Mayor, it will flip on my next turn, and make me a Wolf at end of next turn. Let us see what happens if I Mayor. So, Mayor and pass.
    T2 WoP: Chamber, return Conclave, pass.

    T3 H: Mayor flips, play Student, go to Level 1 and attack for 4 [WoP=16], get a Wolf EOT.
    T3 WoP: Play Mayor, Conclave tapped.

    T4 H: Level Student to 3, so now I have 3/3 Mayor, 3/3 Wolf, 3/3 Student. Attack with all, blocking would seem bad, so [WoP=7], make a Wolf.
    T4 WoP: Mayor flips. Play Oko, make a Food [Oko=6 loyalty]. Attacking would be very bad, so make Wolf EOT.

    T5 H: Student to Level 5. Now I have 3/3 Student, 3/3 Mayor, and two 3/3 Wolf tokens. If I attack WoP, a block on a Token with a Token would then result in 9 damage and a loss. So the Mayor must block something. If it trades with my Mayor, Oko could then steal my Student for the Food, or could make the Food a 3/3. Stealing seems bad, since the Student would be tapped and then there is only one Blocker and WoP is at 1. So, making the Food a 3/3 seems like the best course. So, lets play it out with that. So, Mayor trades for Mayor, Token for Token, [WoP=1].
    T5 WoP: As we said, stealing a tapped Student would be bad, making Student a 3/3 doesn't change that 2 blockers are needed, so make Food a 3/3 and pass [Oko=7].

    T6 H: Make Student Level 7. Attack with 2/2 Token and Student. The 3/3 can block the 2/2, and the Conclave chumps the Student.
    T6 WoP: Oko can't steal Student still, so it is either make Food and pass or make Student an Elk.

    In the case of making the Food:
    T7 H: Attack with Student, must be chumped with the Elk, since eating the Food isn't enough life to survive.
    T7 WoP: Trade Food for Student, but Student is tapped, so Hierarch would attack for 1 and win. Making a Food doesn't win, because Student is a 5/5 double strike. Lets go back to T6 then and make Student an Elk.

    T6 WoP: Make Student an Elk.

    T7 H: Attack with 4/4 Elk, it must be chumped because WoP is still at 1.
    T7 WoP: Make a Food, go to 4.

    T8 H: Attack for 4 with Elk. So I think I do win on the Play. 3-3?

    This was surprisingly complicated. I'd guess I just lose on the Draw though.
    What if I make your Mayor an Elk rather than make Food? That makes your Wolves only 2/2, so my Mayor can block and survive one of your Wolf tokens, and I can chump Student forever.

  20. #1860
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    What if I make your Mayor an Elk rather than make Food? That makes your Wolves only 2/2, so my Mayor can block and survive one of your Wolf tokens, and I can chump Student forever.
    Hmm, yeah, that does seem to work looking at it, because while I can kill the Oko in that case, I can't race the Mayor (plus the Conclave).
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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