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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #341

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    You should win the second game otp, because you can divest my thalia, and just attack with factory.

    so you score 4 points.
    Yep you are correct, ill edit my post accordingly.

  2. #342
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post

    On the draw you win by vialing in detentions-dude
    Are you sure about that?
    You can play only one prototype to begin. At some point he will have to remove it via deputy to avoid death, and you will be able to play the other one.
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Are you sure about that?
    You can play only one prototype to begin. At some point he will have to remove it via deputy to avoid death, and you will be able to play the other one.
    Nope, that one Prototype can't attack as long as the other one is in hand.
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  4. #344
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch View Post
    Nope, that one Prototype can't attack as long as the other one is in hand.
    My bad. this Format is nasty. Too many things to remember with these obscure cards.
    Death and taxes!!

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  5. #345
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    About 18 hours until the deadline for round 3. We have 13 participants so far.

    Scores for round 2:

    Pos, Player, Total, Season
    1. JackaBo, 90, 5
    2. phonics, 76, 3
    3. tescrin, 74, 2
    4. spirit of the wretch, 65, 1
    5. FTW, 64, 0
    6. Wrath of Pie, 58, 0
    7. ronco, 55, 0
    8. kombatkiwi, 52, 0
    9. Tylert, 51, 0
    10. apple713, 47, 0
    11. H, 45, 0
    12. CptHaddock, 43, 0
    13. PirateKing, 43, 0
    14. Mr. Safety, 33, 0
    15. Ace/Homebrew, 33, 0
    16. Dan Pyre, 21, 0
    17. Asthereal, 15, 0
    18. Kap'n Cook, 9, 0

    This means that phonics takes the lead in this season.

  6. #346
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Can you play 4 card blind in a modern format?

    My main concerns are that
    combo might be problrmatic with no FoW
    there are inadequate land choices with the loss of city of traitors and ancient tomb
    significant lack of deck diversity

    I know its literally possible but is the format too limiting/unfun?

    What about standard?

    If these would be too limiting would increasing the number of cards from 4-5 or 6 possibly fix issues?

    Before anyone asks why I would want to ever play these formats because legacy is so much better, I have some friends that are new to magic and starting with a smaller card pool might be more manageable for them.
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  7. #347

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Can you play 4 card blind in a modern format?

    My main concerns are that
    combo might be problrmatic with no FoW
    there are inadequate land choices with the loss of city of traitors and ancient tomb
    significant lack of deck diversity

    I know its literally possible but is the format too limiting/unfun?

    What about standard?

    If these would be too limiting would increasing the number of cards from 4-5 or 6 possibly fix issues?

    Before anyone asks why I would want to ever play these formats because legacy is so much better, I have some friends that are new to magic and starting with a smaller card pool might be more manageable for them.
    Modern has Time Spiral storage lands and combo is a lot slower because of the lack of fast mana, so it should be fine.

    IIRC Standard is lacking in storage lands, so increasing the number of cards would theoretically increase the number of playable options, but usually Standard CB warps around 1-drop aggro.

  8. #348
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Can you play 4 card blind in a modern format?

    My main concerns are that
    combo might be problrmatic with no FoW
    there are inadequate land choices with the loss of city of traitors and ancient tomb
    significant lack of deck diversity

    I know its literally possible but is the format too limiting/unfun?

    What about standard?

    If these would be too limiting would increasing the number of cards from 4-5 or 6 possibly fix issues?

    Before anyone asks why I would want to ever play these formats because legacy is so much better, I have some friends that are new to magic and starting with a smaller card pool might be more manageable for them.
    We can play anything, we just need additional bannings.
    There's always weird cards that just dominate 4CB.

    Oh and I'm against Standard. I don't know any of the cards. I'm too old.

    My vote for next season will be a full "bannathon", where we ban all cards that win points each round. That makes every round fresh and ends up banning really weird stuff like basic lands, forcing us to play Thalakos Lowlands or other stuff that definitely needs card tags because no one's heard of it. And no card tags for my example, just to emphasize the example. Who here knows that card without looking it up? A bannathon forces us to be creative, and even if it's going to be only half as epic as that one time I participated in one, we'll have a blast.

  9. #349
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @asthereal Just to be clear, i was not suggesting playing modern or standard 4cb here. I was merely inquiring for offline play with a small circle of friends.

    @wrath thanks for the input

    Looking forward to round three decks.
    Currently Playing
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    EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid

    Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
    Currently looking for Beta duals - Find me on Magictraders.com as "Apple"

    why cards are so expensive...hoarders

  10. #350

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Absolutely phoning it in this round
    Can't we just have a leaderboard based on running total of all the points
    It's a huge feelbad to think "oh yeah this idea was actually decent / top 10" but then its not actually worth anything

  11. #351
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Absolutely phoning it in this round
    Can't we just have a leaderboard based on running total of all the points
    It's a huge feelbad to think "oh yeah this idea was actually decent / top 10" but then its not actually worth anything
    That's more unfair... Someone could participate in 3 large pods and do poorly and be ranked higher than someone who won 3 small pods.

  12. #352

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    That's more unfair... Someone could participate in 3 large pods and do poorly and be ranked higher than someone who won 3 small pods.
    Hmm.. it's only unfair because the total points depend on the number of players, which changes between rounds.

    Instead, what if you use average score per round (round total points / # of other players in the round) and added those up? Then there's no bias towards large pods or small pods and it still gives you credit for how your deck did when you don't top 4. Keep a running tally of those averages. For example, if you scored 90 pts in a pod with 18 players, that's an average score of 90/17=5.29 pts per match. If next round you get 50 pts with 21 players, that's 50/20=2.5 pts per match. Total score = 5.29 + 2.5 = 7.79 pts.

    In the current system, 5th place and 30th place get the same points, so it fails to distinguish between above average performance and getting thrashed.

    I realize I'm saying this entirely out of self-interest, missing 4th by 1 point (that I possibly could have gotten by digging deep to find a more optimal line somewhere), but I also think this is a useful scoring system in general.

  13. #353
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    DECKS FOR ROUND 3:

    1. Asthereal (TO): City of Traitors, Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eureka
    2. spartan117: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge
    3. CptHaddock: Smallpox,Nether Spirit,Lotus Petal,Swamp
    4. Whoshim: Lion's Eye Diamond, Nether Spirit, Bridge From Below, Lingering Souls
    5. ronco: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Island, Force Spike
    6. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Golgari Rot Farm, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
    7. PirateKing: Academy Ruins, Dimir Aqueduct, Hangarback Walker, Arcbound Ravager
    8. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mishra's Factory, Hymn to Tourach, Shrieking Affliction
    9. spirit of the wretch: City of Traitors, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Inkwell Leviathan
    10. JackaBo: City of traitors, Steel overseer, Steel overseer, Steel overseer
    11. Ace/Homebrew: Commandeer, Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Memnite
    12. Tylert: Ancient Tomb, Field of ruins, phyrexian revoker, lupine prototype
    13. apple713: city of traitors, elixir of immortality, ratchet bomb, lupine prototype
    14. H: Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond, Inkwell Leviathan, Plains
    15. kombatkiwi: Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Angler Turtle

    Please post and cross-check your scores.
    I have updated the Google Spreadsheet, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Please also let me know if you would like to see one or more cards banned.
    I am leaning heavily towards banning Lupine Prototype, because it's been dominating a little too much for my taste.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 03-06-2019 at 09:15 AM.

  14. #354
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Asthereal scores for round 3:

    1. Asthereal: That's me. No inspiration, so boring Eureka combo... City of Traitors, Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eureka
    2. spartan117: I have bigger dudes with Vigilance. But you drop your dudes as well, adding an extra 120 hasty gobbos. WHOOPS!!! 0-6
    3. CptHaddock: You either make me discard or sacrifice one Chancellor and recurring Spirit chumps my other Chancellor, so two draws. 2-2
    4. Whoshim: Recurring Nether Spirit and a Bridge token a turn chump my Chancellors quite nicely. Reach and vigilance stop your guys quite well. 2-2
    5. ronco: OTP you can't stop Eureka and I have an extra fattie. OTD you use Chancellor mana to cast Vial and Island to Spike Eureka. 3-3
    6. Wrath of Pie: Elixir shuffles back the removal spell, so you get to kill both Chancellors. 0-6
    7. PirateKing: If your deck works the way I think it works, I should race you both games. 6-0
    8. FTW: Hymn's too late to stop me, Chancellors race Affliction. 6-0
    9. spirit of the wretch: if I attack, you block one Chancellor and kill it. If you attack, I double-block and kill Inkwell. Stalemate: 2-2
    10. JackaBo: You race me. I have two 6/7 Vigilance dudes on turn one, yet you still race me. Easily. 0-6
    11. Ace/Homebrew: Force of Will + blue card + threat > Eureka combo. 0-6
    12. Tylert: I have somewhat larger fatties than you. 6-0
    13. apple713: Turn one fatties FTW. 6-0
    14. H: We both can't attack or we lose. 2-2
    15. kombatkiwi: This particular fattie I can beat with my Chancellors. 6-0

    Total: 41
    Last edited by Asthereal; 03-07-2019 at 04:09 AM.

  15. #355
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Asthereal scores for round 3:
    2. spartan117: I have bigger dudes with Vigilance. 6-0
    For me it's a stand off both games.
    He starts with 4 1/1 on T0.
    Then if you cast Eureka, he adds 4 5/5. You cannot attack because he will double block both chancellors and win and he cannot attack because you will kill his big dudes and race.
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  16. #356
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Wow, the meta game shifts are real. Barely any FoW this time but a ton of all-in strategies. That amount of LEDs 0...
    Great minds think alike!

    My list: 9. spirit of the wretch: City of Traitors, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Inkwell Leviathan


    1. Asthereal: City of Traitors, Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eureka
    - Mine ist bigger, but theirs are more. Noone can attack, so we don't 2-2

    2. spartan117: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge
    - Mine ist bigger. 6-0

    3. CptHaddock: Smallpox,Nether Spirit,Lotus Petal,Swamp
    - I can't play anything because then they will kill my Leviathan. They can't play anything because then I will discard that Leviathan and reanimate it. We draw 2-2

    4. Whoshim: Lion's Eye Diamond, Nether Spirit, Bridge From Below, Lingering Souls
    - On the draw I lose to spirit and zombie beatdown. On the play I am able to race. I think. lots of math here... 3-3

    5. ronco: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Island, Force Spike
    - Mine ist bigger. And I have enough mana to pay for the Spike 6-0

    6. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Golgari Rot Farm, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
    - Mine ist bigger. And has shroud. 6-0

    7. PirateKing: Academy Ruins, Dimir Aqueduct, Hangarback Walker, Arcbound Ravager
    - Mine ist bigger. I think. That is one hell of a math list! 6-0

    8. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mishra's Factory, Hymn to Tourach, Shrieking Affliction
    - Mine ist bigger. 6-0

    10. JackaBo: City of traitors, Steel overseer, Steel overseer, Steel overseer
    - The Overseers race me. This list is REALLY awesome. Mad props! 0-6

    11. Ace/Homebrew: Commandeer, Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Memnite
    - I can't beat any of those cards... Very good Metagame call I think. 0-6

    12. Tylert: Ancient Tomb, Field of ruins, phyrexian revoker, lupine prototype
    - On the play I get my fatty down and win. On the draw they disable my LED and they win. 3-3

    13. apple713: city of traitors, elixir of immortality, ratchet bomb, lupine prototype
    - Mine ist bigger. 6-0

    14. H: Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond, Inkwell Leviathan, Plains
    - Hehehe, this deck seems familiar. But Plains is a weak choice :). Still 2-2

    15. kombatkiwi: Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Angler Turtle
    - Mine ist bigger. 6-0

    => 54 Points if (big IF) my math is correct...
    Last edited by spirit of the wretch; 03-11-2019 at 07:23 AM.
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  17. #357
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    For me it's a stand off both games.
    He starts with 4 1/1 on T0.
    Then if you cast Eureka, he adds 4 5/5. You cannot attack because he will double block both chancellors and win and he cannot attack because you will kill his big dudes and race.
    You are right, except when Asthereal is on the draw, I think he looses:

    Take 4 from the Goblins (16)
    Cast Eureka
    spartan attacks with everybody: Take 14 (2) from Goblins and 2 Chancellors
    Swing back for 12 (8)
    spartan attacks with everybody: Take 4 from the Goblins (-2)
    Sneaky Pirates of Doom - Not really a Legacy Team anymore.

  18. #358
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    For me it's a stand off both games.
    He starts with 4 1/1 on T0.
    Then if you cast Eureka, he adds 4 5/5. You cannot attack because he will double block both chancellors and win and he cannot attack because you will kill his big dudes and race.
    LOOOLLLL!!!
    I'm an idiot, and totally forgot about him dropping his big dudes...
    Oh, and have you read the "When enters the battflefield" part of his Chancellors?

    So if I calculate correctly, this is what happens:

    - He starts with 4 1/1 haste dudes.
    - I play Eureka, and drop my dudes. He drops his dudes and announces 4 triggers, which lead to:
    Trig1: He has 8 dudes now, so he adds 8 1/1 haste dudes (16 total).
    Trig2: He has 16 dudes now, so he adds another 16 dudes (32 total).
    Trig3: He has 32 dudes now, so he adds another 32 dudes (64 total).
    Trig4: He has 64 dudes now, so he adds another 64 dudes (128 total).

    After this party, he now has 4 5/5 dudes and 124 1/1 haste dudes.
    I don't think I survive this.
    I'm not 100% sure, so maybe someone could help me do the combat math?


    This is a pretty epic loss, I must say.

    And yes, technically, as in: according to the 4CB rules, this means I don't play Eureka, because losing on turn 1/2 is worse than losing on turn 5.
    But I refuse to not play Eureka, just because this is too awesome.

  19. #359
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @asthereal: lol :) That's why we play this wacky format :)

    1. Asthereal: You cast eureka i loose. 0-6 --> 0
    2. Spartan117: OTP: T1: you get 4 1/1 i cast lupine prototype. Your T1: If you attack, I take 3 but you take 5 and i win the race in the end because i can block an additionnal 1/1 with Revoker. OTD: You can attack for 4 on T1 (16). i Cast prototype. YOu can attack for 3 after, But you loose 1 guy i go to 13. Then if i start attacking, it will be something like: 13-15 --> 11-15 (i block with revoker) --> 11-10 --> 9 - 10 and i win the race in the end. I realize i forgot to count the 4 points from ancient tomb but it doesn't change the math i think. 6-0 --> 6
    3. CptHaddock: Standoff. On both games, i don't do anything and wait for you to smallpox. If you do i discard field of ruins, and cast prototype next turn that blocks nether spirit all day long and that can also be blocked by nether spirit all day long (you can block once revoker to stop taking damage). 2-2 --> 8
    4. Whoshim: I win OTP by playing revoker T1 on lion's eye diamond. OTD: I can't attack profitably into nether spirit + bridge from below (you will block lupine all day and have a lot of zombies at some point. and you can kill me with the 2 spirits. 3-3 --> 11
    5. ronco: I can play prototype on turn 3 paying for force spike, then cast revoker on vial and win. both games. 6-0 --> 17
    6. Wrath of pie: OTP: I play prototype T1 (18). You play Treetop. T2: I play revoker naming elixir and land field of ruins (16) attack with prototype (15). You play rotfarm. T3: I kill your land and i win. OTD: You play Treetop. I play ancient tomb and prototype (18). T2: You play rotfarm, i destroy it (16) T3: you do nothing i cast revoker (naming elixir) and i win. 6-0 --> 23
    7. PirateKing: I can field of ruins your dimir acqueduct OTP and OTD before you do anything. 6-0 --> 29
    8. FTW: OTD: T1: Ancient tomb, lupine (18). You Urborg, shrieking. T2: Field of ruins, revoker (naming Deputy of detention, yes it is the optimal play) (16). attack (15). You play Mishra T3: I go to 13 i field of ruins the mishra's factory (11), you take 7 (8). T4: (8), you go to 1, T5: (5), i kill you. OTD: you win because i take extra damage from factory even if we do both hit for 5 per turn. 3-3 --> 32
    9. spirit of the wretch: I win otp by playing revoker on lion's eye diamond. OTD: You win because i can't race Leviathan. 3-3 --> 35
    10. JackaBo: I win both games because phyrexian revoker on Steel overseer. 6-0 --> 41
    11. Ace/Homebrew: You cannot commandeer my prototype. So you have to force it and both games are a stand off. 2-2 --> 43
    12. me.
    13. apple713: I win both games because of fields of ruins. either he drops lupine and can't attack or ratchet that is revoked or elixir that can't be used because i destroy his land before. --> 49
    14. H: I win on the play because revoker can name lion's eye diamond. OTD: You win because leviathan races my dudes. 3-3 --> 52
    15: kombatkiwi: Same story as other T1 lion's eye diamond decks. 3-3 --> 55

    Glad i added that field of ruins and Phyrexian revoker. Metagame call :)

    Total Score 55.
    Last edited by Tylert; 03-07-2019 at 08:48 AM.
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  20. #360
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Wait, we're already on Round 3?!? I would like to give a personal 'thank you' to any/all that tallied my score from round 2. I apologize for not getting in here and doing it myself. Much appreciated.

    I'll jump back in for r4, looks like the deadline has passed for r3. Happy brewing everyone!
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