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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #381
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You forgot Bridge from Below. Every time he chumps with Nether Spirit he gets a 2/2 zombie token. He chumps 10 times, taking 10 trample and making 10 2/2 zombies. He can eventually swarm you with zombies or gangblock Treetop. Even if you EOT Trophy it, he gets a zombie. I think you're forced to draw by using Elixir every turn for infinite life.
    From eternal life, he can EOT Trophy the Nether Spirit (one Zombie token) and attack with Treetop for at least one damage.
    If he can do that once, how can he not do it again later on?
    After this exchange, he just Elixirs back the Trophy and Trophies the token to revert back to the original board position.
    He will perhaps lose some life, but considering he started this exchange with a Googolplex life, he should be okay.

    I see only wins here.

  2. #382

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    My strategy of drawing against everyone seems to be working.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  3. #383
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    This meta is all over. No one plays fow this week and many are on combo. No one played mayor this round either...

    I cant tell id all my decks are bad or if I am just failing to predict meta...
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  4. #384

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    1. Asthereal (TO): I win OTP, I lose OTD. +3.
    2. spartan117: I lose the race, badly. +0.
    3. CptHaddock: OTP i force your small pox, you can't get spirit from your hand and i win. OTD you can cast small pox, i drop spike and eventially get my dude in play. We draw. +4.
    4. Whoshim: OTP, I can counter your LED and win. OTD you beat me with tokens. +3.
    5. ronco: me. +0
    6. Wrath of Pie: You play slow and get mana to pay for my force spike and you destroy my non-recursive threats. I lose both. +0.
    7. PirateKing: You play slow to pay for my force spike, and i lose to tokens/recursion. +0
    8. FTW: I counter your hymn, we race affliction vs my 4/6 vigilance. I lose. +0.
    9. spirit of the wretch: Indeed, yours ist bigger and i can't counter :(. +0.
    10. JackaBo: City of traitors, Steel overseer, Steel overseer, Steel overseer. I counter the first one (or the second one), I think you win the race. +0.
    11. Ace/Homebrew: I lose counter wars and I lose to memnite. woe is me. +0
    12. Tylert: Revoker stops my vial, has mana to back up force spike. I lose. +0.
    13. apple713: I lose this one too. Recursion is good. I either lose the vial to bomb or i counter it and you get it back with elixer. +0
    14. H: OTP Force spike good enough. I win. OTD Force spike not good enough. I lose. +3.
    15. kombatkiwi: . OTP, i force spike your rites and win with vialed creature. OTD you do your thing and I lose to the turtle. +3.

    16 points. Ouch.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lav Dafka View Post
    I kept hearing random people around the room saying "manaless dredge!" like a sort of "hide your wives and your daughters, grab your pitchforks, say your prayers, the Beast is back" reaction.

  5. #385
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Commandeer, Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Memnite

    WW (+6) 1. Asthereal: City of Traitors, Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eureka
    LL (+0) 2. spartan117: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge
    WW (+6) 3. CptHaddock: Smallpox,Nether Spirit,Lotus Petal,Swamp
    WW (+6) 4. Whoshim: Lion's Eye Diamond, Nether Spirit, Bridge From Below, Lingering Souls
    WW (+6) 5. ronco: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Island, Force Spike
    LL (+0) 6. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Golgari Rot Farm, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality
    LL (+0) 7. PirateKing: Academy Ruins, Dimir Aqueduct, Hangarback Walker, Arcbound Ravager
    LL (+0) 8. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mishra's Factory, Hymn to Tourach, Shrieking Affliction
    WW (+6) 9. spirit of the wretch: City of Traitors, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Inkwell Leviathan
    LL (+0) 10. JackaBo: City of traitors, Steel overseer, Steel overseer, Steel overseer
    DD (+2) 12. Tylert: Ancient Tomb, Field of ruins, phyrexian revoker, lupine prototype
    DD (+2) 13. apple713: city of traitors, elixir of immortality, ratchet bomb, lupine prototype
    WW (+6) 14. H: Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond, Inkwell Leviathan, Plains
    WW (+6) 15. kombatkiwi: Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Angler Turtle

    46

    No bannings. Format staples are still being figured out. Lupine Prototype, Aether Vial, and Lion's Eye Diamond are beginning to look like pillars. Amazingly no Chalice of the Void.

    Asthereal, is it possible to put a link to each round in the OP? I know there's the sharedoc, but you miss out on the related conversations associated with each round.
    Thanks again for organizing.

  6. #386
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Asthereal, is it possible to put a link to each round in the OP? I know there's the sharedoc, but you miss out on the related conversations associated with each round.
    Thanks again for organizing.
    You mean a link to the post where the decks for that round are presented, so you can click and go there to see the entire conversation?

    It's definitely possible, but it requires me knowing how to direct link to an individual post.
    Can you show me how I do that? Then I'll post links in the OP rather than "decks for current round".

  7. #387
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    It's definitely possible, but it requires me knowing how to direct link to an individual post.
    Can you show me how I do that? Then I'll post links in the OP rather than "decks for current round".
    Click on the number on the upper right corner
    (#387), then copy the URL and paste it into the field that pops up when you click on the button that looks like planet Earth. You can change the text between [ URL="address"][ /URL] to say whatever you want. Like this: Round 3

  8. #388
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Click on the number on the upper right corner
    (#387), then copy the URL and paste it into the field that pops up when you click on the button that looks like planet Earth. You can change the text between [ URL="address"][ /URL] to say whatever you want. Like this: Round 3
    Ah right, thanks. I didn't know that number was clickable.
    I'll add the links to the first post soon. (I'm at work now.)

  9. #389
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    L L 1. Asthereal (TO):*City of Traitors,*Chancellor of the Tangle,*Chancellor of the Tangle,*Eureka tangle beats ratchet bomb race
    W W 2. spartan117:*Chancellor of the Forge,*Chancellor of the Forge,*Chancellor of the Forge,*Chancellor of the Forge Ratchet bomb at 0
    D D 3. CptHaddock:*Smallpox,Nether Spirit,Lotus Petal,Swamp Never play a land until you smallpox. If you smallpox first I can easily ratchet bomb away your nether spirit and attack through slowly. Recycling with elixir.
    W W 4. Whoshim:*Lion's Eye Diamond,*Nether Spirit,*Bridge From Below,*Lingering Souls ratchet bomb the tokens -> elixer -> ratchet lupine to kill bridge -> elixir -> then slowly ratchet bomb nether spirit and attack
    W W 5. ronco:*Chancellor of the Tangle,*Aether Vial,*Island,*Force Spike ratchet bomb -> force -> elixer -> ratchet bomb
    L L 6. Wrath of Pie:*Treetop Village,*Golgari Rot Farm,*Assassin's Trophy,*Elixir of Immortality Lose to trophy recycle
    W W 7. PirateKing:*Academy Ruins,*Dimir Aqueduct,*Hangarback Walker,*Arcbound Ravager Im pretty sure I win this because I can keep ratcheting away your dudes and they can never get bigger than lupine. BUT I didn't do the math here.
    W W 8. FTW:*Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth,*Mishra's Factory,*Hymn to Tourach,*Shrieking Affliction prioritize elixier to get through hymn, ratchet the affliction, lupine > mishras
    L L 9. spirit of the wretch:*City of Traitors,*Lion's Eye Diamond,*Unburial Rites,*Inkwell Leviathan inkwell beats ratchet bomb race
    W W 10. JackaBo:*City of traitors,*Steel overseer,*Steel overseer,*Steel overseer Ratchet bomb recycle
    D D 11. Ace/Homebrew:*Commandeer,*Force of Will,*Mental Misstep,*Memnite FoW lupine, MM elixir, memnite dies to ratchet
    L L 12. Tylert:*Ancient Tomb,*Field of ruins,*phyrexian revoker,*lupine prototype I figured he would win but he thinks we draw. Field ruins my plans. If I ratchet he revokers then I elixir, he lupines, Then I lupine. Then he fields and I can never use elixir. On the draw he gets his creatures out first and leaves mana open to field. I have to leave mana open to elixir so I can shuffle CoT back if he destroys it. Thus I cannot cast anything else and he chips away at my life.
    x x 13. apple713:*city of traitors,*elixir of immortality,*ratchet bomb,*lupine prototype its me
    L L 14. H:*Unburial Rites,*Lion's Eye Diamond,*Inkwell Leviathan,*Plains inkwell beats ratchet bomb race
    W L 15. kombatkiwi:*Karakas,*Lion's Eye Diamond,*Unburial Rites,*Angler Turtle See his math


    13 W 6 D = 43 Total

    I think the only matches that need further analysis are
    Tylert
    pirateking

    I'd also like to point out that simply playing FoW this round would have earned AT LEAST 42 points regardless of win con(if I did my fast math correct).
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  10. #390
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    D D 12. Tylert:*Ancient Tomb,*Field of ruins,*phyrexian revoker,*lupine prototype I figured he would win but he thinks we draw. Field ruins my plans. If I ratchet he revokers then I elixir, he lupines, Then I lupine. Then he fields and I can never use elixir. On the draw he gets his creatures out first and leaves mana open to field. I have to leave mana open to elixir so I can shuffle CoT back if he destroys it. Thus I cannot cast anything else and he chips away at my life.
    You are right i think i win both games.
    When i'm OTP If you play lupine T1, i destroy your land, you can't attack. If you play elixir T1 i destroy your land and empty my hand to kill you. if you play ratchet bomb, i destroy your land and play revoker on it. win.
    When i'm OTD, it's the same thing. You can only deploy two things before i kill your land (so no attacks with lupine) and you will not have the mana to use elixir and revoker will shut off ratchet bomb before it can destroy anything.

    So yes i win both.
    Death and taxes!!

    Another Draft Blog

  11. #391
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    You are right i think i win both games.
    When i'm OTP If you play lupine T1, i destroy your land, you can't attack. If you play elixir T1 i destroy your land and empty my hand to kill you. if you play ratchet bomb, i destroy your land and play revoker on it. win.
    When i'm OTD, it's the same thing. You can only deploy two things before i kill your land (so no attacks with lupine) and you will not have the mana to use elixir and revoker will shut off ratchet bomb before it can destroy anything.

    So yes i win both.
    Fixed it in my post but cant edit goggle doc on my phone. Will do it later.
    Currently Playing
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    Currently looking for Beta duals - Find me on Magictraders.com as "Apple"

    why cards are so expensive...hoarders

  12. #392

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    W W 7. PirateKing:*Academy Ruins,*Dimir Aqueduct,*Hangarback Walker,*Arcbound Ravager Im pretty sure I win this because I can keep ratcheting away your dudes and they can never get bigger than lupine. BUT I didn't do the math here.
    Ratchet Bomb will always end up on bottom after an Elixir activation (worst reordering for you is how shuffles work in CB), so you need two draw steps to get it back, which means Hangarback Walker will come back faster than Ratchet Bomb. Trying to Ratchet Ravager is really slow, but you eventually have to do it because it gets bigger than Prototype, but then you just have a giant Hangarback Walker to deal with, plus you end up with a giant Ravager again before you can Ratchet away Hangarback Walker. I think you lose both ways because of this.

  13. #393
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    1. Asthereal (TO): I can block one and take 6, spending every other turn returning Hangarback Walker, but never recover before 4 hits 0-6 (0)
    2. spartan117: Me OTD you get 3 full hits in before I put down Walker (12 damage), then I block 1 and take 3 (15 damage) and play Ravager. You can attack for 3 but I'll block 2 and sac the Thopter before damage, killing one of yours with a 2/2, taking 1 (16 damage). Now you have 2 1/1s and I have a 2/2, so your attacks are turned off while I can build my machinations and win 6-0 (6)
    3. CptHaddock: If I never play a land to sacrifice to Smallpox, I'll just discard a creature and can rebuild before you can kill me. So I hold onto everything and wait for you to Smallpox, which you don't because then you'd lose; so Draw. 1-1 (4)
    4. Whoshim: By turn 4 I'll have both creatures out, you'll have hit for at most 10 damage. After that block-sac with Hangarback Walker stops Nether Spirit and kills Bridge from Below, take 2 from the spirits to 12 damage. Next turn I can chump a flyer and get back Hangarback walker, taking 3 going to 15 damage. Playing out Hangarback Walker at that point lets me sac to get a chumping token and Arcbound Ravager bigger than your Nether Spirit. So you're stuck until I can assemble a lethal army and win. 6-0 (10)
    5. ronco: Force Spike or not, I'll have a recurring blocker whilst assembling an army. 6-0 (16)
    6. Wrath of Pie: Assassin's Trophy kills everything. Many Assassin's Trophies kills many everythings 0-6 (16)
    7.
    8. FTW: I thought Hymn was banned, but guess not. Can't recover in 7 turns, Factory doesn't help either. 0-6 (16)
    9. spirit of the wretch: Trample. 0-6 (16)
    10. JackaBo: Misjudged how fast you get them big. 0-6 (16)
    11. Ace/Homebrew: I'll block and bring back what you Commandeer and recover. 6-0 (22)
    12. Tylert: Field of Ruin again, boo. 0-6 (22)
    13. apple713: Ratchet Bomb will kill dudes but not Arcbound Ravager, which will grow more than Lupine Prototype by turn 6, but if you try and ratchet up to 2 I'll have token blockers before it comes back down to 0. But either way you're gaining 2.5 life a turn at the fastest while I'm adding power at 1 a turn, so I'll never present lethal. I say draw. 1-1 (23)
    14. H: TRAMPLE AGAIN. 0-6 (23)
    15. kombatkiwi: I can recur a blocker every other turn, and won't catch up on swinging back before 4 hits. 0-6 (23)

    I called this meta very wrong
    Last edited by PirateKing; 03-12-2019 at 08:12 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  14. #394
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Ratchet Bomb will always end up on bottom after an Elixir activation (worst reordering for you is how shuffles work in CB), so you need two draw steps to get it back, which means Hangarback Walker will come back faster than Ratchet Bomb. Trying to Ratchet Ravager is really slow, but you eventually have to do it because it gets bigger than Prototype, but then you just have a giant Hangarback Walker to deal with, plus you end up with a giant Ravager again before you can Ratchet away Hangarback Walker. I think you lose both ways because of this.
    Even popping Elixir every 3rd turn is still +1.6 life per turn, so I'll never outgrow his life gains
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  15. #395
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    ROUND 4 of Season 1 (Legacy) FOUR CARD BLIND has started!

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for the round.
    So... you can all start PM'ing me your submission for this fourth round.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 13th of March, at 6:00AM Central European Time. (That's my time. Just send me the deck Tuesday evening latest, you'll be fine).

    PLEASE NOTE:
    - The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Goblin Guide, Mogg Fanatic, Pithing Needle, Cavern of Souls (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S01R04 in the topic. Many of you already did this for round 3. Thanks a lot, this really saves me the time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
    - The banned list (you'll find it in the second post). Don't send in illegal decks. I might catch it and notify you, but if I overlook it, you miss out on the round.
    One change for round 4: LUPINE PROTOTYPE IS NOW BANNED. I toyed around with the idea of giving it another round, but it's been raking up points consistently enough for me to give it the axe now.
    The list is open for discussion though. Cards of the current watchlist are: Lion's Eye Diamond, Eureka, Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Leyline of Singularity, Elixir of Immortality and Field of Ruins.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.

    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Happy deck designing everybody!

    ABOUT ROUND THREE:
    Not everybody has posted their scores yet. Please do so this weekend, so I can post scores and update standings before the deadline for round 3.
    We also have a public Google Spreadsheet. You can enter your scores there as well there as well.

  16. #396

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Hello everyone! Sorry, I was away for the week. I will go through my scores this weekend (thanks to those who posted their results - I will look more closely, but they seem good).

    I am also glad that FoW was not out in big numbers this week. That was my chief worry.

  17. #397

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    One change for round 4: LUPINE PROTOTYPE IS NOW BANNED. I toyed around with the idea of giving it another round, but it's been raking up points consistently enough for me to give it the axe now.
    The list is open for discussion though. Cards of the current watchlist are: Lion's Eye Diamond, Eureka, Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Leyline of Singularity, Elixir of Immortality and Field of Ruins.
    I think you could safely remove a few cards from the current banned list, but the question here is really what the banned list philosophy is.

    Looking at Lupine Prototype, here are the averages:

    Round 1 - 1 submission from 28 participants, score of 5.556
    Round 2 - 3 submissions from 18 participants, scores of 2.647, 3.765, and 5.294
    Round 3 - 2 submissions from 15 participants, scores of 3.214 and 3.643

    First round score is explained away because of double Rack, and the high-scoring entry for the second round was fueled by Field of Ruin, which was extremely effective for that round. The other entries are roughly around average expected score of 3, so I am not convinced that Prototype is actually problematic.

    I would actually consider Field of Ruin a ban candidate over Prototype, honestly, as it has scored consistently high outside of what I consider a suboptimal Round 1 entry, granted with only 1 entry each round. There are some potential problematic nonbasic land options, but those are likely to end up banned anyways.

  18. #398
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    For me, this banning is three-fold:
    - It consistently wins points.
    - I couldn't really see a valid way to combat it outside of playing combo.
    - I have to decide quickly without optimal information, as I have to launch the next round before the weekend starts.

    Also, if we need a threat that costs 2 generic mana, there's plenty of options, so we shouldn't miss it too much.

    Field of Ruins is on the watch list. We could ban it next round.

  19. #399

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Round 3 Results

    4. Whoshim: Lion's Eye Diamond, Nether Spirit, Bridge From Below, Lingering Souls


    1. Asthereal (TO): City of Traitors, Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Eureka - Agree. Draw 2-2.

    2. spartan117: Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge - Even on the play, you won't be able to push enough damage past my Nether Spirit, and my fliers will eventually get there. 6-0.

    3. CptHaddock: Smallpox,Nether Spirit,Lotus Petal,Swamp - Smallpox doesn't bother me, so I am able to win on the play or the draw. 6-0.

    5. ronco: Chancellor of the Tangle, Aether Vial, Island, Force Spike - Agree. 3-3.

    6. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Golgari Rot Farm, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality - I agree that I cannot win. 0-6.

    7. PirateKing: Academy Ruins, Dimir Aqueduct, Hangarback Walker, Arcbound Ravager - Agree. 0-6.

    8. FTW: Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, Mishra's Factory, Hymn to Tourach, Shrieking Affliction - Agree. 0-6.

    9. spirit of the wretch: City of Traitors, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Inkwell Leviathan Agree. 3-3.

    10. JackaBo: City of traitors, Steel overseer, Steel overseer, Steel overseer I believe that they grow too quickly for me to push damage through. With 3 of them, I cannot chump block forever. 0-6.

    11. Ace/Homebrew: Commandeer, Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Memnite - Lose to FoW. 0-6.

    12. Tylert: Ancient Tomb, Field of ruins, phyrexian revoker, lupine prototype - Agree. 3-3.

    13. apple713: city of traitors, elixir of immortality, ratchet bomb, lupine prototype Agree. 0-6.

    14. H: Unburial Rites, Lion's Eye Diamond, Inkwell Leviathan, Plains This is the same as Spirit of the Wretch. 3-3.

    15. kombatkiwi: Karakas, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Angler Turtle - Agree. 0-6. Though the math is a little bit different since Nether Spirit comes into play at the beginning of my upkeep, so it cannot attack. However, if you wait a turn and don't attack, I will have to swing, and I get you to 2 life on the play before you get me.

  20. #400

    4 Card Blind

    City, 3x steel overseers

    1 WW +6 *
    2 WW +6
    3 WW +2 *
    4 WW +6 *
    5 WW +6 *
    6 LL +0 *
    7 WW - please let me know if you agree. I think i can outrace you since the ruins engine is so slow + 6
    8 WL +3*
    9 WW +6 * - thanks for your kind words
    10 me
    11 WW +6
    12 LL+0, a better version of my s2 deck, nice!
    13 LL +0
    14 WW +6
    15 LW +3 *
    * confirmed result

    Please let me know if i miscalculate
    I think banlist is fine
    56 points
    Last edited by JackaBo; 03-12-2019 at 03:27 AM.

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