Page 9 of 332 FirstFirst ... 56789101112131959109 ... LastLast
Results 161 to 180 of 6623

Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #161
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    28. Kap'n Cook: Claim stops you from casting Rampager, Familiar gets FoWed pitching Bogle. Two draws. I think. 2-2 (88)
    I don't think this is correct.

    On the play, Asthereal can turn one either do nothing, or play Boggle. If he does nothing, the game should play out as Kap'n plays land Familiar. If that resolves, Asthereal is basically screwed. If he casts Claim, Familiar is already on the board and so wins the Race versus the Boggle. So, Asthereal's turn one nothing is not good. Instead, Asthereal has to play turn 1 Boggle. Which means, Kap'n can either play turn one Rampager to get an Energy or turn 1 Familiar. If he plays Familiar, Force of Will is off, but he is on board with a counter. Asthereal is winning the race on board, but only if he keeps Kap'n off Rampager. The options are to claim his land or hold up Force. Claim is just bad, because it gets tagged by Familiar and then Rampager can be cast past the dead Force eventually blocking Boggle and winning. So, Force needs to be held up. If Force is held up though, he gets the Rampager through the possible Familiar activation and Kap'n's dead Force, but now loses the race, because he lost one life to cast it.

    On the play for Kap'n, he can go turn 1 Familiar. If Asthereal lets it resolve, he loses, because his clock is not faster. So he must Force that. If he pitches Claim, he has no way to stop Rampager. If he pitches Boggle, he loses, because he is dead to the Familiar.

    I think that this is just a loss on both sides for Asthereal, if I deduced it correctly. If someone could double check my logic though.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  2. #162
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    H: I think you actually win if you're on the play. In your calculation it seems like you evaluated it as if I played Bitterblossom on my turn 1, which is impossible (you do lose when I'm on the play though)
    I might have to break out actual cards to do this. It's really hard for me just doing it totally abstracted.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  3. #163
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,731

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    On the play for Kap'n, he can go turn 1 Familiar. If Asthereal lets it resolve, he loses, because his clock is not faster. So he must Force that. If he pitches Claim, he has no way to stop Rampager. If he pitches Boggle, he loses, because he is dead to the Familiar.
    Force of Will pitching Boggle means Kap'n Cook doesn't get the Judge's Familiar, leaving Asthereal to cast Sea's Claim and lock out the Greenbelt Rampager. So that game is a draw.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  4. #164

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Lets see how shit my idea actually was

    KOMBATKIWI: Bitterblossom, Smallpox, Nether Spirit, Peat Bog

    1. 0
    2. 0
    3. 4 [misstep]
    4. 2 [misstep]
    5. 2
    6. 1
    7. 0
    8. 3
    9. 0
    10. 6
    11. 2
    12. 0
    13. 3
    14. 6
    15. 6
    16. NA
    17. 6
    18. 6
    19. 0
    20. 0
    21. 0
    22. 0
    23. 0
    24. 1
    25. 2
    26. 2
    27. 2
    28. 6

    Banned matchups count as the actual result : 61
    Banned matchups are a free 6-0: 67
    Banned matchups ignored: 55

    I think the deck idea was ok but relying on Peat Bog cost me a lot by not letting me do anything turn 1 on the play vs Sphere / Seas Claim / discard spells

    1. Aesthereal: Mono Peat Bog deck can't beat Sea's Claim 0-6
    2. PirateKing: If I hold all my cards then I die to Prototype and I lose to double Rack if I Smallpox it away 0-6
    3. Matsu: [Banned cards] Misstep does nothing. With me on the play they die to BB but on the draw it's a stalemate because they have to keep Porting me forever 4-1
    4. CptHaddock: [Banned cards] He has to force BB or lose. If he plays Cove before I play Smallpox then he loses but if I play Smallpox before he plays Cove he will discard misstep and have enough mana from Cove to stop Spirit with Griffin before dying 2-2
    5. Taconaut: Exact same situation as above 2-2
    6. Mr. Safety: I can't beat a resolved Bridge, on the play they get bridge + tongs before I cast a spell, on the draw they can only play bridge before I Smallpox Tongs away so nobody can win, 1-4
    7. Clx33: If I cast BB when they have all their spells in hand they will let it resolve and use FoW on Smallpox to protect Propaganda, so I lose. If I try to Smallpox their Cove with 3 cards in their hand they FoW pitching Griffin and I lose to Propaganda + return Griffin. So I have to just play Peat Bog and let them charge up Cove to 100 counters. If they cast Griffin with Force + Propaganda backup then I lose because if I cast BB when they're tapped out I will die to Propaganda, and if I cast Smallpox when they're tapped out they FoW pitching Propaganda and hit for 3, and then my follow-up BB is too slow to race Griffin. (Same equation as against H below with me on the draw) 0-6
    8. Fallen_Empire: On the play I win because they either go turn 1 City + Orb which loses to Smallpox or turn 1 do nothing which loses to Bitterblossom. On the draw I lose because I can't answer 2 Dreadnoughts 3-3.
    9. Tescrin: I can't beat turn1 Sphere play or draw 0-6
    10. PapriNgomo: No way to kill me without exposing Leopard to Smallpox 6-0
    11. Ronco: Either we do nothing and draw or they cast Smallpox on my tapped Bog and our Nether Spirits have a standoff 2-2
    12. JackaBo: Their turn 1 TKS takes Smallpox and BB can't race even if I'm on the play 0-6
    13: H: They have to save their counter for Smallpox so my turn 2 BB always resolves, this can race a turn-1 3/3 on the play, but not on the draw 3-3.

    Explanation
    Me on the play
    T1 Bog
    T1 Trop, Dryad
    T2 BB
    T2 Attack (me 17)
    T3 Make 1st Fae (16)
    T3 Attack (me 13)
    T4 Make 2nd Fae (12), attack for 1 (you 19)
    T4 Attack (9)
    T5 Make 3rd Fae (8) Leave all 3 fae back to block
    At this point your best option is to swing and trade hoping I die to BB
    T5 Attack, I triple block
    T6 Make 1st Fae (7) (from here onward you never do anything)
    T7 Make 2nd Fae (6) Attack (18)
    T8 Make 3rd Fae (5) Attack (16)
    T9 Make 4th Fae (4) Attack (13)
    T10 Make 5th Fae (3) Attack (9)
    T11 Make 6th Fae (2) Attack (4)
    T12 Make 7th Fae (1) Attack (dead)

    Me on the draw (If I win at 1 life on the play it should be obvious I lose on the draw but here you go)
    T1 Dryad
    T1 Bog
    T2 Attack (17)
    T2 BB
    T3 Attack (14)
    T3 Make 1 Fae (13)
    T4 Attack (10)
    T4 Make 2nd Fae (9), Attack (19)
    T5 Attack (6)
    T5 Make 3rd Fae (5), Leave back blockers
    T6 Attack, triple block
    T7 Make 1 Fae (4)
    T8 Make 2nd Fae (3) Attack (18)
    T9 Make 3rd Fae (2) Attack (16)
    T10 Make 4th Fae (1) Attack (13)
    T11 Make 5th Fae (dead)

    14: mistercakes: If they do nothing they lose to BB and if they cast Obliterator then they lose to smallpox 6-0
    15: Dan Pyre: Exact same situation as above 6-0
    16: kombatkiwi -----
    17: Tylert: They can never attack me with Emrakul before Smallpox resolves, and if they don't put any lands on the battlefield to play around smallpox then Bitterblossom kills them 6-0
    18: Ace/Homebrew: The Leyline of the Void disables Nether Spirit, but I just play turn 2 BB every time. If Myth Realized is on the battlefield then Smallpox destroys Serra's Sanctum and they can't do anything 6-0
    19. spartan117: If they play Tabernacle first, then Treetop Village, then Field + Vineyard I lose the game without ever being able to safely cast anything (play or draw) 0-6
    20: beardstorm: Another Sea's Claim deck 0-6
    21: phonics: Play or draw they discard BB with Blackmail then play Rack + Factory, and my only play is to Smallpox disabling Factory and Nether Spirit loses the race to the Rack. 0-6
    22: Sloshthedark: Another turn 1 Sphere deck 0-6
    23: JosefK: If they are on the play they goe turn 1 Blackmail turn 2 therapy taking BB and Smallpox so I lose. If I'm on the play they discard Smallpox with Blackmail and BB can't race The Rack 0-6
    24: spirit of the wretch: If they don't play Singularity then Hangarback always gets trumped by Bitterblossom, so they have to play it. If my opponent goes first playing Karakas turn 1, then City + Hangarback I lose. If I go first what happens is I play turn 1 Bog and then my opponent does nothing. I can't play BB because I will die to it and if I smallpox to put Spirit into play they will discard Hangarback or City, play Karakas bounce Spirit and nobody can win 1-4
    25: apple713: He has to Tithe BB because factory can't race it so both games are a draw when Smallpox resolves. Spirit is Exiled but he can't attack with Factory anymore. 2-2
    26: Darklingske: My deck can't beat Tabernacle, but they can't win without exposing another one of their lands to Smallpox in which case they can't win either 2-2
    27: FTW: If they let me play turn 2 BB it can race student on the play or the draw, so they have to Therapy it both games leading to 2 draws when I exile my Spirit resetting the board with Smallpox 2-2
    28: Kap'n Cook: If they use FoW on BB then they die to Smallpox, so I always play BB asap and they always play Greenbelt as fast as they can leaving Force backup for Smallpox. I win this race on the play and on the draw 6-0
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 02-21-2019 at 09:40 AM.

  5. #165
    Bald. Bearded. Moderator.
    Mr. Safety's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2010
    Location

    Hell in a Nutshell
    Posts

    5,246

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Mr. Safety, re-read our cards.
    DOH! Good catch.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  6. #166
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Force of Will pitching Boggle means Kap'n Cook doesn't get the Judge's Familiar, leaving Asthereal to cast Sea's Claim and lock out the Greenbelt Rampager. So that game is a draw.
    Ah, ok, I figured something went haywire. I so still a loss and a draw?.

    Kap'n cant cast Familiar on the play, so if he casts Rampager, the choice is either Asthereal Forces that, or lets it resolve. If he Forces, he has to pitch Claim, because if he pitches Boggle, he can't beat Familiar (Claim won't stop Familiar being cast). If he pitches Claim, he loses to Rampager. Right?

    If he lets it resolve, Kap'n gets an energy and passes turn. If Asthereal attempts to Claim, Kap'n can Force that, which means either Asthereal Forces back, losing Boggle, so that game would be a draw. If Kap'n lets that Claim resolve though, he can cast Familar, which would then be Forced pitching Boggle and Kap'n can't cast Rampager, so another draw.

    So, it looks like one win for Kap'n and one draw?
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  7. #167
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    H: I think you actually win if you're on the play. In your calculation it seems like you evaluated it as if I played Bitterblossom on my turn 1, which is impossible (you do lose when I'm on the play though)
    Yeah, which is actually sort of what I wrote out, but wrote down the score as if I lost both. So, my anaylsis and your's was right, I just got extra stupid at the end. It's one win for each of us.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  8. #168
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,731

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Ah, ok, I figured something went haywire. I so still a loss and a draw?.

    Kap'n cant cast Familiar on the play, so if he casts Rampager, the choice is either Asthereal Forces that, or lets it resolve. If he Forces, he has to pitch Claim, because if he pitches Boggle, he can't beat Familiar (Claim won't stop Familiar being cast). If he pitches Claim, he loses to Rampager. Right?

    If he lets it resolve, Kap'n gets an energy and passes turn. If Asthereal attempts to Claim, Kap'n can Force that, which means either Asthereal Forces back, losing Boggle, so that game would be a draw. If Kap'n lets that Claim resolve though, he can cast Familar, which would then be Forced pitching Boggle and Kap'n can't cast Rampager, so another draw.

    So, it looks like one win for Kap'n and one draw?
    Asthereal OTP plays Island and passes. If Kap'n plays Rampager, that opens a window to cast Sea's Claim. Kap'n can't let that happen, so they Force pitch Familiar, Asthereal Forces pitching Boggle. Sea's Claim resolves and it's a draw. If Kap'n casts Familiar then it gets Forced pitching Boggle, then the road is open to cast Sea's Claim. Draw there too. The only way for Astherreal to try and win is to resolve a threat, but that means he has Force or Sea's Claim, not both, and will die to Rampager with Force backup, which is a loss. Impossible for Astherreal to win this game as he needs both Sea's Claim and Force + pitch to not lose, and to do that means sacrificing the only threat.

    So Astherreal is right, draw on both accounts.
    I think
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  9. #169
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    So Astherreal is right, draw on both accounts.
    I think
    OK, yeah, I think that is right then. Not sure what I keep twisting in my mind, but that seems correct.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  10. #170

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Tylert vs Ronco should be a draw for both games, if I understand the rules correctly

    Ronco can't win without casting smallpox and if Tylert hasn't played anything yet then they don't have to sacrifice anything and can discard Emrakul, which will reshuffle and draw in the next draw step and can still assemble Battleground + City + Eureka

  11. #171

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I feel like i probably made a ton of errors here.... this is hard...
    3 and 4 i called a judge and they got a gameloss! Dunno what we decide on that, i think its a bit unfair letting them count. Not that it matters much to me personally.

    16(OTD) and 21, 27 i'm really uncertain about.

    16 They go peat bog. I go the rack. If they smallpox i win, as i will deal my 2 damage before nether spirit. If they play bitterblossom i will discard smallpox and do 2 damage a turn + bitterblossomdamage, if i counted correct i win with 5 life.

    21 OTP i blackmail and take a land, if its mishra he can blackmail and takes my the rack, i untap and therapies his the rack and it's a draw. So draw is the best i can get.
    If he instead plays his the rack i untap take 1 damage, play my the rack and deals 2 to him and win the race.
    IF he instead lets me take the swamp, he cant black mail and i will win.
    OTD he plays swamp blackmail and take my the rack for a draw (i can't reveal swamp), i think that's the best he can do there?

    27 @FTW i think i win on the play. I play the rack, if you therapy me then i def win the race. If you play student i still think i win the race as my damage comes first
    You ME Level
    20 - 20 0
    18 - 19 1
    15 - 16 2
    12 - 13 3
    9 - 10 4
    6 - 7 5
    3 - 4 6
    0 - x 7

    13 @H
    I think i win on the play, i play discard, you force, you play your creature, i play the rack and i deal damage in your upkeep, so you are dead before you can attack for the last damage.

    My deck: Swamp, The Rack, Blackmail, Cabal therapy
    Player: Deck OTP OTD Points
    1. Asthereal (TO): Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Slippery Bogle, Island W W 6
    2. PirateKing: City of Traitors, The Rack, The Rack, Lupine Prototype L L 0
    3. Matsu: Rishadan Port, Mishra's factory,Mental Misstep, Mental Misstep W W 6
    4. CptHaddock: Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep W W 6
    5. Taconaut: Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Confiscate W W 6
    6. Mr. Safety: City of Traitors, Elvish Spirit Guide, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs W W 6
    7. Clx33: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Propaganda W W 6
    8. Fallen_Empire: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought W W 6
    9. tescrin: Sphere of Resistance, Crystal Vein, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Factory W L 3
    10. PapriNgomo: Undiscovered Paradise, Undiscovered Paradise, Scythe Leopard, Adventuring Gear W L 3
    11. ronco: Swamp, Smallpox, Nether Spirit, Lotus Petal W W 6
    12. JackaBo: City of traitors, Simian spirit guide, Simian spirit guide, Thought-knot-seer W L 3
    13. H: Tropical Island, Force of Will, Force Spike, Old-Growth Dryads W L 3
    14. mistercakes: swamp, culling the weak, shield sphere, phyrexian obliterator W L 3
    15. Dan Pyre: Swamp, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Phyrexian Crusader W L 3
    16. kombatkiwi: Peat Bog, Bitterblossom, Nether Spirit, Smallpox W W 6
    17. Tylert: Havenwood Battleground, city of traitors, Eureka, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn W W 6
    18. Ace/Homebrew: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Sanctity, Serra's Sanctum, Myth Realized D D 2
    19. spartan117: The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale, Eladamri's Vineyard, Treetop Village, Field Of Ruin W W 6
    20. beardstorm: Island, Zealous Guardian, Force Spike, Sea's Claim W W 6
    21. phonics: Swamp, Mishra's Factory, Blackmail, The Rack L W 3
    22. Sloshthedark: Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance W L 3
    23. JosefK: Blackmail, Cabal Therapy, Swamp, The Rack 0 0 0
    24. spirit of the wretch: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, City of Traitors, Hangarback Walker W W 6
    25. apple713: Plains, Mishra's Factory, Mana Tithe, Leyline of the Void W W 6
    26. Darklingske: Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale, Grove of the Burnwillows, [cards]Punishing Fire, Dwarven Hold W W 6
    27. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Scrubland, Cabal Therapy, Student of Warfare W L 3
    28. Kap'n Cook: Force of Will, Judge's Familiar, Tropical Island, Greenbelt Rampager W W 6
    Results 125
    Last edited by JosefK; 02-25-2019 at 08:41 AM.

  12. #172
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,776

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Check my post a few back. I think we draw both.

    I can't Therapy you because of Leyline. Student will get a lot of damage in but can't kill you before you get Myth to 4/4. Then you just sit there and pass with mana open, so I can't attack as a 3/3. I level up and you EOT add counters. When I become 4/4 double strike, I'm forced to attack into you and force a trade. I have to force a trade before you get to 9/9, otherwise I lose the ability to trade and you can win as a 20/20. Therefore we draw.

    Nominations for Bannings:
    - Cabal Therapy. It's even better than Thoughtseize because you don't lose life and can flash it back (lol Doomed Traveler, Young Wolf, Sacred Cat, Nether Spirit).
    - Blackmail. It's designed for games where you start with 7 cards and draw new cards. It's not supposed to manascrew you.
    - The Rack. It's also designed for games where you start with 7 cards and draw new cards. It's OP when it comes online so quickly and you can't draw new cards.

    Cabal Therapy, Blackmail and The Rack are broken because of the way their abilities interact with the unique format rules.

    I'd like Mental Misstep banned for real this time. It punishes fair 1-drop strategies, pairs too well with FoW lists, and encourages City of Traitors -> Lupine Prototype nonsense.

  13. #173
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    13 @H
    I think i win on the play, i play discard, you force, you play your creature, i play the rack and i deal damage in your upkeep, so you are dead before you can attack for the last damage.
    Ah, yeah, forgot that would be on my upkeep, so that is likely correct.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  14. #174
    Member

    Join Date

    Sep 2011
    Posts

    4,776

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by JosefK View Post
    27 @FTW i think i win on the play. If you play student i still think i win the race as my damage comes first
    You ME Level
    20 - 20 0
    18 - 19 1
    15 - 16 2
    12 - 13 3
    9 - 10 4
    6 - 7 5
    3 - 4 6
    0 - x 7
    Hmm..

    T1 - You play Rack. I take 0 and play Scrubland, Student.
    T2 - You discard something. I take 2 and attack for 1 (Level 1). 18 vs 19
    ...
    Yeah that checks out. Rack kills me on my upkeep the turn before Student could kill you.

    3-3

  15. #175
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Apr 2014
    Posts

    950

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Whoops it completely slipped my mind that mental misstep was a banned card in this format. Sorry about that folks, i'll remember for next round. Would it be too late and also fair to change banned cards to basic lands? Or would that just make things even more complicated?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  16. #176
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Maastricht, NL
    Posts

    2,510

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I'll post these here, as Clx33 isn't able to post at this time.
    Results from Clx33:

    1. Asthereal (TO): Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Slippery Bogle, Island - Agree on your posted Draw 2-2 (2)
    2. PirateKing: City of Traitors, The Rack, The Rack, Lupine Prototype - Even if I force a rack, and hold propaganda to stop the prototype, I can't get Griffin down face enough to race the second rack 0-6 (2)
    3. Matsu: Rishadan Port, Mishra's factory,Mental Misstep, Mental Misstep - Missteps are irrelevant, but if you every don't port, I get to resolve griffin/propaganda, and you can't get enough attacks in before cove charges up 2-2 draw (4)
    4. CptHaddock: Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep - We stare at each other for a while Draw 2-2 (6)
    5. Taconaut: Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Confiscate - If we sit there charging coves, you can't play griffin, because then you have to pitch confiscate to force my force, and my griffin will stick, I can't play griffin becasue I lose to confiscate with force backup 2-2 draw (8)
    6. Mr. Safety: City of Traitors, Elvish Spirit Guide, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs - I force bridge and outrace tongs 6-0 (14)
    7. Clx33: Saprazzan Cove, Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Propaganda - Me!
    8. Fallen_Empire: City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought - I force torpor orb and then griffin gets there 6-0 (20)
    9. tescrin: Sphere of Resistance, Crystal Vein, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Factory - I can land a propaganda before I die to factory beats 6-0 (26)
    10. PapriNgomo: Undiscovered Paradise, Undiscovered Paradise, Scythe Leopard, Adventuring Gear - I force leopard, and beat with griffin 6-0 (32)
    11. ronco: Swamp, Smallpox, Nether Spirit, Lotus Petal - I force smallpox and beat with griffin 6-0 (38)
    12. JackaBo: City of traitors, Simian spirit guide, Simian spirit guide, Thought-knot-seer - I force TKS and beat with griffin 6-0 (44)
    13. H: Tropical Island, Force of Will, Force Spike, Old-Growth Dryads - I force dryads, you force back, I can land a propaganda, but if you play nothing, if I play griffin, you force, then I lose my propagannda too force back, but your dryad coming down the next turn is too late. So you need to dryad earlier and not force my force, meaning you can force my griffin, and we draw. If i don't force drad and take some hits to land propaganda, I can't cast griffin with protection, so again, it's a draw 2-2 (46)
    14. mistercakes: swamp, culling the weak, shield sphere, phyrexian obliterator - force obliterator and beat with grifffin 6-0 (52)
    15. Dan Pyre: Swamp, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Phyrexian Crusader - force crusader and beat with griffin 6-0 (58)
    16. kombatkiwi: Peat Bog, Bitterblossom, Nether Spirit, Smallpox - Save force for smallpox, so if you lead on bitterblossom, let that resolve, play propaganda, and bitterblossom kills you. If you play nothing, I can play griffin, but then if you smallpox->bitterblossom, I lose, so I can't griffin 2-2 draw I think. (60)
    17. Tylert: Havenwood Battleground, city of traitors, Eureka, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - force eureka and beat with griffin 6-0 (66)
    18. Ace/Homebrew: Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Sanctity, Serra's Sanctum, Myth Realized - force myth realized and beat with griffin 6-0 (72)
    19. spartan117: The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale, Eladamri's Vineyard, Treetop Village, Field Of Ruin - force vineyard making field and treetop irrelevant, wait a ton of turns to have the mana on cove to play it then pay tabernacle every turn whille griffin attacks 6-0 (78)
    20. beardstorm: Island, Zealous Guardian, Force Spike, Sea's Claim - I force the sea's claim, and outrace guardian 6-0 i thiink (84)
    21. phonics: Swamp, Mishra's Factory, Blackmail, The Rack - I don't see a way for me to answer everything 0-6 (84)
    22. Sloshthedark: Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance - I can land a grifffin T6 before the inkmoth kills me T7, force the sphere pitch griffin, or just play griffin if sphere unplayed, but I can't attack because you can pay for the propaganda 2-2 draw (86)
    23. JosefK: Blackmail, Cabal Therapy, Swamp, The Rack - Can't answer everything - 0-6 (86)
    24. spirit of the wretch: Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, City of Traitors, Hangarback Walker - Force hangerback, but can't keep griffin on the table 2-2 draw (88)
    25. apple713: Plains, Mishra's Factory, Mana Tithe, Leyline of the Void - factory can't race before I can play a propaganda then griffin 6-0 (94)
    26. Darklingske: Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale, Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire, Dwarven Hold - I'm pretty sure just charging cove to pay for 7 turns of tabernacle for griffin outraces by killing on turn 20 6-0 (100)
    27. FTW: Leyline of the Void, Scrubland, Cabal Therapy, Student of Warfare - I can force therapy, and get propaganda in before student kills me, no way to force a draw with second therapy saccing student because grifin already in exile at that point. 6-0 (106)
    28. Kap'n Cook: Force of Will, Judge's Familiar, Tropical Island, Greenbelt Rampager - If you rampager, I force, you force, and I can resolve propagandda in time, if you do nothing, I can griffin eventuallly and outrace by forcing your force (pitch my propaganda), if you rampager and don't force back my force, I can't push through griffin, so that's your line. I can let it resolve and then play a defended propaganda, but then I still can't get my griffin to resolve if you just don't force the propaganda 2-2 draw (108)

    Total: 108

  17. #177
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Maastricht, NL
    Posts

    2,510

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    Whoops it completely slipped my mind that mental misstep was a banned card in this format. Sorry about that folks, i'll remember for next round. Would it be too late and also fair to change banned cards to basic lands? Or would that just make things even more complicated?
    You're not the only one.
    I discussed this and agreed Misstep should be legal (for now), but forgot to mention this in the opening posts.
    It's not the only thing that went wrong for round one. I also forgot to ban Therapy and Blackmail but did ban Thoughtseize.
    However, I don't expect these oversights will be all that impactful. Misstep doesn't look all that overpowered.

    I will sift through the posts from the past 24 hours and see what the consensus seems to be.
    We have a few options, in my opinion.
    - Ban Misstep for next round.
    - Specially mention Misstep is unbanned.
    - Create an entire new banning list with all the relevant cards from the original Legacy banned list on it, but Misstep legal.
    The last one would be most thorough, so I'm leaning to that now. It's not that hard. Tutors and card draw are irrelevant in 4CB.

    I will also look at what cards you would like to have banned for next round.
    So far I have seen support for banning Therapy and Blackmail, and a few other cards as well.
    If you haven't posted about your preferences for bannings in your results post, please post them separately.


    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Ah, ok, I figured something went haywire. I so still a loss and a draw?.

    Kap'n cant cast Familiar on the play, so if he casts Rampager, the choice is either Asthereal Forces that, or lets it resolve. If he Forces, he has to pitch Claim, because if he pitches Boggle, he can't beat Familiar (Claim won't stop Familiar being cast). If he pitches Claim, he loses to Rampager. Right?

    If he lets it resolve, Kap'n gets an energy and passes turn. If Asthereal attempts to Claim, Kap'n can Force that, which means either Asthereal Forces back, losing Boggle, so that game would be a draw. If Kap'n lets that Claim resolve though, he can cast Familar, which would then be Forced pitching Boggle and Kap'n can't cast Rampager, so another draw.

    So, it looks like one win for Kap'n and one draw?
    1. Asthereal (TO): Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Slippery Bogle, Island
    28. Kap'n Cook: Force of Will, Judge's Familiar, Tropical Island, Greenbelt Rampager

    Okay, this needs some analysis.

    I can't go for the win. If I cast Bogle, I can't stop Rampager anymore:
    If I use Claim, he will Force it and I don't have a blue card to pitch to be able to Force back.
    If I keep Claim in hand to pitch to Force, he will just Force my Force, pitching Familiar.
    Rampager > Bogle, so that's out of the question. So all I can do is go for the draw.

    Rampager only becomes a problem the third time he casts it. So before that happens I can cast Claim to try and stop that.
    If he casts Familiar, he can't Force anymore because Familiar is his only other blue card.
    But he doesn't have to cast Familiar. I see these options:

    1. He goes Tropical, cast Rampager (+1 energy counter, Rampager bounces). I go Island, cast Claim on Tropical. He can Force, but he has to pitch Familiar. I Force back pitching Bogle. Claim resolves, and neither of us have a wincon.
    2. He goes Tropical, cast Familiar. I Force, pitching Bogle. I then cast Claim on Tropical, and again, neither of us have a wincon.

    Both lines draw, and it doesn't matter who's on the play. So I think we score 2-2.

    (PS. If Rampager were something else, for instance Old-Growth Dryads, I lose this. -Props to H for that find.)

  18. #178

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Sorry guys, I don't have the time for the next couple of days to comb through the results and post them here. But as I suspected, my deck is pure nonsense :)

  19. #179
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Jul 2011
    Location

    Maastricht, NL
    Posts

    2,510

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    OTP - Force Bridge, Bogle races Tongs LOSS, OTD Bogle first, Force Bridge, races Tongs, LOSS (0)
    EDIT: Nope. Tongs races Bogle, even on the draw, because I need to use Force, which costs one life.
    Note that you have the opportunity to cast Tongs before you cast Bridge. You don't have to cast bridge first.

    So I have to counter Tongs and go for two draws.

    Also, I have NEWS:
    Many of you have already noticed that there are a few Mental Missteps in the decks for round one. Yet Misstep is on the Legacy banned list.
    That's my fault. I agreed Misstep should be legal, but failed to notify everyone in the first posts. My apologies.
    I have decided to decree all decks posted for round one legal and will take action for round two.

    About round two: I will create my deck as soon as possible, and make sure we start submissions for round two this weekend.
    More news to follow, but round two can obviously only start after I have decided what to do about Misstep, bannings and so on.

    About round one: If you've only just come here and are too lazy to dig through the posts to find all the decks: you will find the decks on page 6.
    I will collect all scores posted so far and create a score table after submissions for round two are opened. No rush, the scores won't walk away when ignored.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 02-21-2019 at 06:44 AM.

  20. #180
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    3,413

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    I'll post these here, as Clx33 isn't able to post at this time.
    Results from Clx33:

    13. H: Tropical Island, Force of Will, Force Spike, Old-Growth Dryads - I force dryads, you force back, I can land a propaganda, but if you play nothing, if I play griffin, you force, then I lose my propagannda too force back, but your dryad coming down the next turn is too late. So you need to dryad earlier and not force my force, meaning you can force my griffin, and we draw. If i don't force drad and take some hits to land propaganda, I can't cast griffin with protection, so again, it's a draw 2-2 (46)
    I keep forgetting that "do nothing" is always an option. I'll edit my results.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)