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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #1
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    4 Card Blind

    The first season has come to a close. Wrath of Pie, congrats on scoring a clear victory! Bragging rights to you.
    But... this also means it's time to start up season 2: the Bannathon!

    4 CARD BLIND - SEASON TWO: Vintage Bannathon

    Welcome to the second season of Four Card Blind. How 4CB works is described in more detail below.
    This season, we play 12 rounds of Vintage Bannathon. Barring Unglued, unhinged, conspiracy and ante cards, everything is unbanned at the start of the season.
    After each round, we ban all cards from top scoring decks. This will work as follows:
    - If a round has 12 or more participants, all cards from the top 5 scoring decks get banned for future rounds.
    - If a round has 8, 9, 10 or 11 participants, all cards from the top 4 scoring decks get banned for future rounds.
    - If a round has 7 or less participants, all cards from the top 3 scoring decks get banned for future rounds.
    In this way, the banned list grows with each round, changing the meta, making new strategies viable. Keeping every round fresh.

    And yes, for round one you get to play Black Lotus. Enjoy it while it lasts.

    One other thing we will change for season 2 is the season scoring. Last season, the top 4 scored season points Formula 1 style.
    This season, all players score season points for all rounds they play. Season points for each round equal total points scored for the round, divided by the number of opponents in that round.
    The tournament organizer will make calculations (or have Google Spreadsheet figure that stuff out) and keep track of standings below. Note: season points are rounded to one decimal.
    You will find the Google Spreadsheet for season 2 here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    You will find the banning list in the post below this one. If you end up accidentally sending in an illegal deck, and I fail to notice before the deadline, you just sit out that round. We all make mistakes.
    Please also only PM me your deck after I have announced the round has started and is open for submissions, otherwise I get to adjust my own deck based on what you sent (and destroy you ).

    Participation is entirely voluntary, and all you can win is bragging rights. We do this for fun.
    If you missed a round, or want to enter mid-season, no problem. You can (re-)enter in any round. All you missed was a few potential season points.
    And fun. You missed out on fun. Which is a lot worse than lagging behind on the score sheet.

    Season standings after round 8 of the Vintage Bannathon:
    1. FTW: 33,2
    2. apple713: 30,5
    3. Wrath of Pie: 29,7
    4. Asthereal (TO): 29,0
    5. GoblinSmashmaster: 25,0
    6. Whoshim: 22,0
    7. Tylert: 17,5
    8. H: 16,7
    9. Ace/Homebrew: 0,5


    Direct links to posts with the decks for each round in the second season:
    - Decks and discussion for round 9
    - Decks and discussion for round 8
    - Decks and discussion for round 7
    - Decks and discussion for round 6
    - Decks and discussion for round 5
    - Decks and discussion for round 4
    - Decks and discussion for round 3
    - Decks and discussion for round 2
    - Decks and discussion for round 1



    Here's how 4CB works
    All participants create a legal 4 card deck, and send it to the tournament organizer via PM before the deadline, but after the organizer has officially started the round.
    After the deadline has expired, the tournament organizer posts all decks on the forum, and participants get to figure out who wins against who, and post results.
    Every participant posts results for every opponent, so that everybody gets to cross-check their results and agree on the outcome. When in doubt, the community will help.
    All participants play one game on the play and one on the draw against every other participant in that round. A win gets you 3 points, a draw is worth 1 point.
    This means if you win on the play and score a draw when on the draw, you will score 3 + 1 = 4 points against that particular opponent.
    The tournament organizer will add all scores and create a scoring table for the round, which will show who did the best in that particular round.
    We will try to play a round every week. Every round the participants send in a new deck, hoping to out-smart the others.

    New system for season points:
    We have a new system for the season points in season 2 of 4CB. This season, we work with weighed scores per round. This goes as follows:
    Season points for each round equal total points scored for the round, divided by the number of opponents in that round. Note: season points are rounded to one decimal.
    So if you play against 8 players and score 17 points, you will score 17/8=2.125, which rounds to 2.1 season points for that round.
    The winner of course is the one who has the most season points at the end of the season. For season 2, we plan to play 12 rounds.

    Old system, for reference:
    The top-4 for each round scores season points. The winner of each round gets 5 points added to their season total. Number two gets 3 points, number three gets 2 and number 4 gets 1.
    In this opening post, the tournament organizer (me, for now) will post standings for the current season, and document winners for previous seasons.

    Note: The tournament organizer (me) also plays along. Before each round starts, ho sends his own deck to himself via PM.
    Afterwards, he posts on the forum that the round can start, and only then, other participants may send in their decks for the round.
    We do this because otherwise, participants can accuse the organizer of creating a deck designed to beat what others have sent in.

    Sending in your deck
    As mentioned, you send your deck for the round via PM to the tournament organizer, which (for now) is me: Asthereal.
    Please send your deck as follows (enter relevant season number, round number, username):

    Subject: 4CB S02R01 deck Username
    (4CB so I know what it's about / S02R01 means Season 2 Round 1, please adjust accordingly / deck and of course you Username for reference.)
    Message: Plains, Mother of Runes, Student of Warfare, Swords to Plowshares
    (I prefer to receive the cards in card tags, and in this way of presenting (so with card, card, card, card), so I can copy and paste super fast. Saves me a LOT of time!)

    Please only send it after I have announced the round has started, and before the deadline (obviously).
    I also participate, so I have to send my own deck to myself before any other decks come in.

    The games go as follows
    - You start with all four cards from your deck in your opening hand, and play from there.
    - You don't lose the game for having to draw a card when you can't (obviously), rest stays the same as in regular MtG, so f.i. if a card ends up in your library, you will draw it next draw step.
    - Random effects always have the effect that is most favorable to the opponent.
    - Every player always plays optimally. If anyone finds a better line, that line is played.

    Example
    John sends in this deck: Taiga, Kird Ape, Lightning Bolt, Raze
    Sarah sends in this deck: Sandstone Needle, City of Traitors, Boldwyr Heavyweights, Aftershock (actually, this was my first ever 4CB deck )
    This looks like John's in trouble, because the Heavyweights will crush him big time, but actually, John wins this 4 to 1 because Sarah's lands are too slow.
    OTP: T1 John plays Taiga, Kird Ape, T1 Sarah plays Sandstone Needle. T2 John plays Raze and kills the Needle, after which he rides the Ape to victory.
    OTD: T1 Sarah plays Needle, T1 John cannot allow her to add a City and cast the Heavyweights, so he just goes Taiga, Raze the Needle and it's a draw because no one can cast anything anymore.

    If anyone finds better lines, they can be openly discussed on the forum, and in the end the score for the optimal play on both sides is the final score.
    So if you're not a very experienced player, that's no problem. Others will help you find the optimal play. 4CB is all about deck building and adapting to trends in the "meta".

    Bannings
    We will use special banning lists for 4CB, because certain cards that seem boring end up completely breaking this format (best example is Burning Inquiry).
    In the post below you will find the bannings for the formats we play.



    4 CARD BLIND - SEASON ONE (Legacy)

    The spreadsheet for Season 1 is available: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    League table for Season 1 - Legacy

    Final standings after the last round (8):
    1. Wrath of Pie: 22 - congratulations are in order: Wrath takes the season! Well done.
    2. Tylert: 16
    3. apple713: 11
    4. JackaBo: 10
    4. Asthereal (TO): 10
    6. FTW: 7
    7. phonics: 6
    8. PirateKing: 5
    9. Taconaut: 2
    9. tescrin: 2
    9. spirit of the wretch: 2
    9. kombatkiwi: 2
    13. JosefK: 1
    14. Clx33: 0
    14. Sloshthedark: 0
    14. CptHaddock: 0
    14. Kap'n Cook: 0
    14. H: 0
    14. Matsu: 0
    14. Mr. Safety: 0
    14. Fallen_Empire: 0
    14. mistercakes: 0
    14. beardstorm: 0
    14. Dan Pyre: 0
    14. spartan117: 0
    14. ronco: 0
    14. Darklingske: 0
    14. Ace/Homebrew: 0
    14. PapriNgomo: 0
    14. Strawberry Dwarf: 0

    Direct links to posts with the decks for each round in the first season:
    - Decks and discussion for round 8
    - Decks and discussion for round 7
    - Decks and discussion for round 6
    - Decks and discussion for round 5
    - Decks and discussion for round 4
    - Decks and discussion for round 3
    - Decks and discussion for round 2
    - Decks and discussion for round 1
    Last edited by Asthereal; 06-14-2019 at 11:23 AM.

  2. #2
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Banned list for the Vintage Bannathon (version current since June 14th 2019)

    Banned are:
    - All cards that reference "Ante" http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Se...%20ante.%22%5d
    - All cards that have card type "conspiracy" http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Se...nspiracy%22%5d
    - All cards from the sets Unglued and Unhinged

    All other cards are unbanned at the start. Bannings occur for high scoring decks in each round. These have gotten the axe so far (updated with results for round 9):
    Ancient Tomb
    Arcbound Ravager
    Assassin's trophy
    Badlands
    Balance
    Bayou
    Black Lotus
    Blackcleave Cliffs
    Blackmail
    Blazing Shoal
    Burning Inquiry
    Cabal Therapy
    Cenn's Tactician
    Chancellor of the Annex
    Chancellor of the Forge
    Channel
    Chronatog
    Chronomaton
    City of Traitors
    Contagion
    Cruel Sadist
    Crystal Vein
    Dark Deal
    Dark Depths
    Dark Ritual
    Delirium Skeins
    Dismember
    Disrupting Shoal
    Divest
    Dread Wanderer
    Durkwood Baloth
    Elixir of immortality
    Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    Fatal Push
    Flash
    Foil
    Force of Will
    Forest
    Ghost Quarter
    Gitaxian Probe
    Golgari Rot Farm
    Greater Gargadon
    Hammerheim
    Hangarback Walker
    Hired Poisoner
    Inkmoth Nexus
    Innocent Blood
    Inquisition of Kozilek
    Iona, Shield of Emeria
    Island
    Ivory Giant
    Jace, Wielder of Mysteries
    Karakas
    Keldon Halberdier
    Laboratory Maniac
    Leyline of Anticipation
    Leyline of Sanctity
    Lion's Eye Diamond
    Lotus Petal
    Lupine Prototype
    Lurebound Scarecrow
    Mana Crypt
    Mana Vault
    Memnite
    Mental Misstep
    Mind Swords
    Mishra's Factory
    Mishra's Workshop
    Mox Emerald
    Mox Jet
    Mox Pearl
    Mox Ruby
    Mox Sapphire
    Nether Spirit
    Overgrown Tomb
    Pardic Dragon
    Phantasmal Bear
    Phyrexian Revoker
    Ratchet Bomb
    Raze
    Saprazzan Skerry
    Scrubland
    Sea Drake
    Show and Tell
    Simian Spirit Guide
    Skyshroud Cutter
    Snow-Covered Island
    Snow-Covered Swamp
    Snuff Out
    Sol Ring
    Soldevi Sentry
    Sphere of Resistance
    Steel Overseer
    Strip Mine
    Stromkirk Noble
    Swamp
    Thalakos Lowlands
    The Rack
    Thought-Knot Seer
    Thoughtseize
    Time Vault
    Tolarian Academy
    Treetop Village
    Trinisphere
    Tropical Island
    Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    Unburial Rites
    Undiscovered Paradise
    Unmask
    Vampire Hexmage
    Volcanic Island
    Voltaic Servant
    Wasteland
    Wheel of Fortune
    Worldspine Wurm
    Young Wolf






    Banned list for Legacy (version current since mar 28th 2019)

    Banned are:
    - All cards that reference "Ante" http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Se...%20ante.%22%5d
    - All cards that have card type "conspiracy" http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Se...nspiracy%22%5d
    - All cards from the sets Unglued and Unhinged

    And these individual cards:
    - Ancestral Recall
    - Balance
    - Black Lotus
    - Blackmail
    - Burning Inquiry
    - Cabal Therapy
    - Chancellor of the Annex
    - Channel
    - Chaos Orb
    - Dark Depths
    - Earthcraft
    - Falling Star
    - Fastbond
    - Field of Ruin
    - Flash
    - Ghost Quarter
    - Inquisition of Kozilek
    - Laboratory Maniac
    - Lupine Prototype
    - Mana Crypt
    - Mana Drain
    - Mana Vault
    - Mind Twist
    - Mishra’s Workshop
    - Mox Emerald
    - Mox Jet
    - Mox Pearl
    - Mox Ruby
    - Mox Sapphire
    - Oath of Druids
    - Shahrazad
    - Shelldock Isle
    - Show and Tell
    - Sol Ring
    - Strip Mine
    - The Rack
    - Thoughtseize
    - Time Vault
    - Time Walk
    - Timetwister
    - Tinker
    - Tolarian Academy
    - Wasteland
    - Wheel of Fortune
    - Windfall
    - Yawgmoth's Will

    Updates will be posted below, for documentation purposes.
    This banned list is work in progress and will be updated when necessary.

    Update feb 14th 2019: Unbanned are Raze, Force of Will (reason: 2 for 1, should not be overpowered), Duress (reason: narrow enough).
    Update feb 23rd 2019: Unbanned is: Mental Misstep (now officially, but on watch list). Banned are: Cabal Therapy, Blackmail, The Rack. Also made a complete banned list to reduce confusion.
    Update mar 8th 2019: Lupine Prototype is now banned.
    Update mar 22nd 2019: Field of Ruin is now banned.
    Update mar 28th 2019: Dark Ritual, Reanimate, Trinisphere and Daze are unbanned. Shelldock Isle is banned.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 06-15-2019 at 05:31 PM.

  3. #3
    Bob Ross
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Ancient Tomb, Petal, Show and Tell, Ape-rakul has to be up there right? Or 3x Petal + True-Skill Nemesis?
    Strawberry Shortcake

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    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Ancient Tomb, Petal, Show and Tell, Ape-rakul has to be up there right? Or 3x Petal + True-Skill Nemesis?
    Indeed, stuff like that we can live without. Show and Tell probably needs to be on the banning list.

    I'm not too scared of True-Name Nemesis though. For example, it loses to the Heavyweights deck in the example.

  5. #5
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Ancient Tomb, Petal, Show and Tell, Ape-rakul has to be up there right? Or 3x Petal + True-Skill Nemesis?
    Both would lose to a deck that's Swamp, Dark Ritual, Pox, Nether Spirit
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  6. #6
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    You guys are getting the hang of this.

    So the banning list should probably contain:
    - Raze
    - Thoughtseize (and a few friends, those aren't fun)
    - Force of Will
    - Daze
    - Show and Tell
    - Dark Ritual
    - Hymn to Tourach (looks obvious, probably Gerrard's Verdict isn't much fun either)

    What else?

  7. #7
    Some dipshit of a Moderator.
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    My first thought was Swamp, Factory, Edict, Thoughtseize.

    Wasteland is so good in this meta. You need your lands to be pulling double duty, so attacking them is like a two for one.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  8. #8
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Hymn isn't as scary without Dark Ritual. Casting on turn 2 to get how many card realistically?
    Thoughtrsieze and Duress I get, since that'll be a turn 1 kill most often, But even a Land-Petal-Hymn-CMC1 deck would probably lose on the draw against most decks, so it seems fair.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  9. #9
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Right, I played mostly 4CB in Vintage, with Moxen legal, which made Hymn pretty insane.
    Perhaps in Legacy it's okay. BUT... It's not fun. Maybe still ban it?

    And yup, Wasteland is VERY good. Should probably ban that.

    Edit: Edited the second post with a preliminary banning list for Legacy.

  10. #10
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Also Ghost Quarter. "You can fetch a basic, after I strip mine you..."

    Wasteland is good, but has to be built around. I think it's fine.

    Force is unlikely to actually see a ton of play. Two for one with only four cards? Good plan.
    It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spam View Post
    Do not make fun of lands masters, they've spent many years mastering the punishing fire technique in the secret loam monastery. Do not mistake them with the miracles masters, eternal rivals, they won't like it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
    Quote Originally Posted by DarthVicious View Post
    Something about how fun it is pulling the wings off flies and microwaving the neighbors cat?

  11. #11
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Well I mean just to start, can anybody thing up a 4 card hand that wins 20 life without creatures?
    Milling doesn't work and storm combo seems... untenable.
    So basically, who's creature sticks around wins right?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  12. #12
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    If Thoughtseize, Wasteland, and Ghost Quarter are banned, then...

    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Duress
    Dark Depths
    Vampire Hexmage

    Oops, looks like Duress and Inquisition are banned too. Something to protect the 20/20 then... Not of This World?

    Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
    Dark Depths
    Vampire Hexmage
    Not of This World

    Folds to Diabolic Edict, though.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  13. #13
    plays Mountains
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Well I mean just to start, can anybody thing up a 4 card hand that wins 20 life without creatures?
    Milling doesn't work and storm combo seems... untenable.
    So basically, who's creature sticks around wins right?
    How about 2X Wasteland and 2X The Rack?

    Also, I think we may miss out by jumping into a banned list early. More Cards = Better Time, right?

    Having Mental Misstep neuters discard somewhat and that'd shorten the banned list. Thoughtseize and Misstep would be hugely powerful, but allowing both means other strategies would be viable. My Rack example is pretty immune to both...

    Edit - Also, in the event of a tie, perhaps a tiebreaker could be 'who has the most life?'

  14. #14
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Does the four card thing allow multiples of the same card, or does it have to be 4 separate cards?
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  15. #15
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
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    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  16. #16
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Shit that's really good. Beats my Pox list on the play.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  17. #17
    Bob Ross
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Leyline of Anticipation, Simian Spirit Guide, Burning Inquiry, Basking Rootwalla


    GG everyone



    Only dies to Misstep?


    #FreeNedleeds
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
    #FreeNedleeds

  18. #18
    plays Mountains
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    Leyline of Anticipation, Simian Spirit Guide, Burning Inquiry, Basking Rootwalla


    GG everyone



    Only dies to Misstep?


    #FreeNedleeds
    Dies to Forest, 3X Basking Rootwalla.

  19. #19
    Bob Ross
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Dies to Forest, 3X Basking Rootwalla.
    Haha true. I guess it’d have to be:

    Leyline of anticipation
    Simian spirit guide
    Burning inquiry
    Nether spirit
    Strawberry Shortcake

    http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...erry-Shortcake

    What a brainstorm do? Draw card and activate on draw effects fix hand, removing woods
    #FreeNedleeds

  20. #20
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    City of traitors, lotus petal, lab Maniac, street wraith.
    -rob

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