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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #181
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    EDIT: Nope. Tongs races Bogle, even on the draw, because I need to use Force, which costs one life.
    Note that you have the opportunity to cast Tongs before you cast Bridge. You don't have to cast bridge first.

    So I have to counter Tongs and go for two draws.
    Good catch, I wouldn't intuitively play Tongs first against anything using a creature for a win condition. I will correct to 2 draws.
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  2. #182
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I keep forgetting that "do nothing" is always an option. I'll edit my results.
    Yeah I went through my games forgetting you could just not put out a Leyline if it didn't aid you, but since The Rack is one billion percent busted, it didn't matter.
    No way it should have been legal. On to round 2!
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  3. #183
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Opponent Deck OtP OtD Notes
    Asthereal Force of Will,Sea's Claim,Slippery Bogle,Island 3 3
    Pirate King City of Traitors,The Rack,The Rack,Lupine Prototype 0 0
    Matsu Rishadan Port,Mishra's factory,Mental Misstep,Mental Misstep 1 1 Opp can't kill me before I get to griffin mana, and once that happens they either port or my griffin stares at their factory.
    CptHaddock Force of Will,Misthollow Griffin,Saprazzan Cove,Mental Misstep 0 0
    Taconaut Force of Will,Misthollow Griffin,Saprazzan Cove,Confiscate 0 0
    Mr. Safety City of Traitors,Elvish Spirit Guide,Ensnaring Bridge,Scalding Tongs 3 3
    Clx33 Saprazzan Cove,Force of Will,Misthollow Griffin,Propaganda 1 1
    Fallen_Empire City of Traitors,Torpor Orb,Phyrexian Dreadnought,Phyrexian Dreadnought 3 3
    tescrin Sphere of Resistance,Crystal Vein,Mishra's Factory,Mishra's Factory 0 0
    PapriNgomo Undiscovered Paradise,Undiscovered Paradise,Scythe Leopard,Adventuring Gear 3 3
    ronco Swamp,Smallpox,Nether Spirit,Lotus Petal 3 3
    JackaBo City of traitors,Simian spirit guide,Simian spirit guide,Thought-knot-seer 3 3
    H Tropical Island,Force of Will,Force Spike,Old-Growth Dryads 3 3
    mistercakes swamp,culling the weak,shield sphere,phyrexian obliterator 3 3
    Dan Pyre Swamp,Cabal Ritual,Lotus Petal,Phyrexian Crusader 3 3
    kombatkiwi Peat Bog,Bitterblossom,Nether Spirit,Smallpox 1 1 e: see note
    Tylert Havenwood Battleground,city of traitors,Eureka,Emrakul, the Aeons Torn 3 3
    Ace/Homebrew Leyline of the Void,Leyline of Sanctity,Serra's Sanctum,Myth Realized 3 3
    spartan117 The Tabernacle At Pendrell Vale,Eladamri's Vineyard,Treetop Village,Field Of Ruin 1 1
    beardstorm Island,Zealous Guardian,Force Spike,Sea's Claim 3 3
    phonics Swamp,Mishra's Factory,Blackmail,The Rack 1 1
    Sloshthedark Blinkmoth Nexus,Inkmoth Nexus,City of Traitors,Sphere of Resistance 1 1
    JosefK Blackmail,Cabal Therapy,Swamp,The Rack 0 0
    spirit of the wretch Leyline of Singularity,Karakas,City of Traitors,Hangarback Walker 1 1
    apple713 Plains,Mishra's Factory,Mana Tithe,Leyline of the Void 1 1
    Darklingske The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale,Grove of the Burnwillows,Punishing Fire,Dwarven Hold 0 0
    FTW Leyline of the Void,Scrubland,Cabal Therapy,Student of Warfare 3 3
    Kap'n Cook Force of Will,Judge's Familiar,Tropical Island,Greenbelt Rampager 3 3

    Total: 100

    e: thinking about it more, I actually think I just lose to kombatkiwi. I have to force the BB, and then my opponent either gets to tick up till they can play the smallpox.

    e2: kombatkiwi is correct, the game would be a draw.
    Last edited by CptHaddock; 02-21-2019 at 11:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  4. #184

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Deleting original post, putting here so it doesn't get lost.

    1. Asthereal (TO): I lose OTP and OTD from Force. Can't get spirit hardcasted. +0.
    2. PirateKing: I lose both to racks. +0
    3. Matsu: Draw both. Do nothing game as opp should just discard a misstep if i SP, which I don't because then factory causes draw. +2
    4. CptHaddock: I lose to force. +0
    5. Taconaut: I lose to force :( +0
    6. Mr. Safety: Draw to Bridge. +2.
    7. Clx33: I lose to force. +0
    8. Fallen_Empire: Draw. If I play SP with opp's land out, I win. so Opp never plays land, I never play SP. +2
    9. tescrin: Lose OTD to sphere, draw OTP to a recurring blocker. +1
    10. PapriNgomo: Do nothing draw. opp won't play creature and I can't get mine out. +2.
    11. -
    12. JackaBo: I won on play, lose on draw. +3.
    13. H: Lose to Force. +0.
    14. mistercakes: Do nothing draw. +2
    15. Dan Pyre: do nothing draw. +2
    16. kombatkiwi: Similar decks. Stalemate. +2
    17. Tylert: Thanks to KombatKiwi - These are "do nothing" draws. I can't win without casting smallpox, so if opp waits and does nothing, they discard emmy and do it next turn. so i never cast. +2.
    18. Ace/Homebrew: I can't win due to leyline, you can't win due to pox. 2 draws, +2.
    19. spartan117: I believe I lose both to trample damage. +0
    20. beardstorm: OTP I t1 pox, get active spirit going to win. OTD I lose as you can flash in creature then counter my SP/sea's claim my land. +3
    21. phonics: I lose to discard. . +0
    22. Sloshthedark: lose 2. OTD I lose to sphere. OTP I t1 pox to get spirit out, but then you get all your lands and I die to infect. +0
    23. JosefK: I lose to Rack. +0
    24. spirit of the wretch: draw (I had to really think on this one). +2
    25. apple713: Agree to draw. +2.
    26. Darklingske: I think we draw this out. I think your best move is do nothing until I SP then you get pfires going on my recurring spirit. Sicne you recur it every turn but only hit me every other, we both stay at the same life. +2
    27. FTW: Lose to leyline/discard! +0
    28. Kap'n Cook: Lose to force. +0

    31 points. Someone has to get last place, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cire View Post
    And the Reserved List causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their portfolios: and that no man might buy or sell cards or Chinese rip offs, save he made a post about the Reserved List or the number of its Threads: 666.

  5. #185

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    [Me VS Clx33 as posted by Asthereal]
    16. kombatkiwi: Peat Bog, Bitterblossom, Nether Spirit, Smallpox - Save force for smallpox, so if you lead on bitterblossom, let that resolve, play propaganda, and bitterblossom kills you. If you play nothing, I can play griffin, but then if you smallpox->bitterblossom, I lose, so I can't griffin 2-2 draw I think. (60)
    I don't think you did the math correctly on BB racing Griffin, it's the same situation as me on the draw vs the turn 1 3/3 Dryads:
    You: Griffin
    Me: Smallpox, you fow pitching Propaganda (19)
    You: Attack (17)
    Me: BB
    You: Attack me to 14
    Me: 1 Fae (13)
    You: Attack me to 10
    Me: 2 Fae (9), attack (you 18)
    You: Attack me to 6
    Me: 3 Fae (5), Block
    Me: 1 Fae (4)
    Me: 2 Fae (3), attack (17)
    Me: 3 Fae (2), attack (15)
    Me: 4 Fae (1), attack (12)
    Me: 5 Fae: Die to my own BB

    cptHaddock on me Vs cptHaddock
    thinking about it more, I actually think I just lose to kombatkiwi. I have to force the BB, and then my opponent either gets to tick up till they can play the smallpox.
    You do have to force the BB (pitching Griffin) but then you can just choose not to do anything. If I play smallpox before you play cove you can just discard misstep and you will get to 4 mana from cove to play Griffin before Netherspirit kills you.

    Edited my original post with total points and explanation for all my matchups

  6. #186
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @kombatkiwi: Well spotted. I also missed the option of sandbagging the Cove.

    @CaptHaddock: If I add all your points I come up slightly above your 70.

  7. #187
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    1. Asthereal: LL Force of Will, Sea's Claim, Slippery Bogle, Island

    2. PirateKing: LL City of Traitors, The Rack, The Rack, Lupine Prototype

    3. Matsu: LL Rishadan Port, Mishra's factory,Mental Misstep, Mental Misstep

    4. CptHaddock: LL Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Mental Misstep

    5. Taconaut: LL Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Saprazzan Cove, Confiscate

    6. Mr. Safety: LL City of Traitors, Elvish Spirit Guide, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs

    7. !!!!!Clx33: LL Saprazzan Cove, Force of Will, Misthollow Griffin, Propaganda He says he ties, but he can just force vineyard pitching griffin, then wait a bunch of turns to get all the needed mana to kill
    me through tabernacle since I can’t do anything in the meantime.

    8. Fallen_Empire: WL City of Traitors, Torpor Orb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought

    9. tescrin: TT Sphere of Resistance, Crystal Vein, Mishra's Factory, Mishra's Factory

    10. PapriNgomo: WW Undiscovered Paradise, Undiscovered Paradise, Scythe Leopard, Adventuring Gear Tabernacle never lets him do anything, treetop beats win.

    11. ronco: LL Swamp, Smallpox, Nether Spirit, Lotus Petal

    12. JackaBo: LL City of traitors, Simian spirit guide, Simian spirit guide, Thought-knot-seer

    13. H: LL Tropical Island, Force of Will, Force Spike, Old-Growth Dryads

    14. mistercakes: LL swamp, culling the weak, shield sphere, phyrexian obliterator

    15. Dan Pyre: LL Swamp, Cabal Ritual, Lotus Petal, Phyrexian Crusader

    16. kombatkiwi: WW Peat Bog, Bitterblossom, Nether Spirit, Smallpox

    17. !!!!!Tylert: LL Havenwood Battleground, city of traitors, Eureka, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn I don’t think I’m able to kill heavenvood in time, since the earliest is turn 3 and eureka has already resolved.

    18. Ace/Homebrew: WW Leyline of the Void, Leyline of Sanctity, Serra's Sanctum, Myth Realized

    19. spartan117:

    20. beardstorm: TT Island, Zealous Guardian, Force Spike, Sea's Claim The moment he casts guardian I slam tabernacle, he lets it die and saves claim for my treetop every game.

    21. phonics: LL Swamp, Mishra's Factory, Blackmail, The Rack

    22. Sloshthedark: WW Blinkmoth Nexus, Inkmoth Nexus, City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance Kill Inkmoth with ruins, race Blinkmoth with Treetop.

    23. JosefK: LL Blackmail, Cabal Therapy, Swamp, The Rack

    24. spirit of the wretch: TT Leyline of Singularity, Karakas, City of Traitors, Hangarback Walker

    25. !!!!!apple713: WW Plains, Mishra's Factory, Mana Tithe, Leyline of the Void He thinks this is a tie, but I think I shpuld be able to always go Treetop, Vineyard paying for tithe thanks to ruins, sac ruins to
    kill mishra, treetop beats win.

    26. Darklingske: WW The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale, Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire, Dwarven Hold

    27. FTW: LL Leyline of the Void, Scrubland, Cabal Therapy, Student of Warfare

    28. Kap'n Cook: LL Force of Will, Judge's Familiar, Tropical Island, Greenbelt Rampager


    Total score: 45

  8. #188
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @spartan117: You are right. I've mistakenly thought that eladamri's vinyard could add mana the turn it was cast. you're one turn short. I win both games.

  9. #189
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @spartan you are right. Not sure what I was thinking there. Ive adjusted my score down.

    Its possible I’ve made the worst deck or something very close to it. I feel like matches were playing out very differently in my head when i submitted it.
    Play 4 Card Blind!

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    cptHaddock on me Vs cptHaddock

    You do have to force the BB (pitching Griffin) but then you can just choose not to do anything. If I play smallpox before you play cove you can just discard misstep and you will get to 4 mana from cove to play Griffin before Netherspirit kills you.

    Edited my original post with total points and explanation for all my matchups
    If I don't do anything don't you just tick up cove to cast your spirit? And then when I play my land and try to tick up to griffin you smallpox before I even get halfway? If you resolve your smallpox i'm just dead as I have no mana to cast my griffins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    @CaptHaddock: If I add all your points I come up slightly above your 70.
    You're right! This is my punishment for trying to use excel before having my morning coffee.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  11. #191

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    If I don't do anything don't you just tick up cove to cast your spirit? And then when I play my land and try to tick up to griffin you smallpox before I even get halfway? If you resolve your smallpox i'm just dead as I have no mana to cast my griffins.
    Remember I'm not playing the black Saprazzan Cove, I'm playing the black Saprazzan Skerry. It's literally impossible for me to get Netherspirit into play without discarding it to Smallpox

    Heres how this matchup plays out
    Me: Bog
    You: Do nothing
    Me: BB, you force pitching Griffin
    You: Do nothing
    Me: Do nothing

    At this point if you play Cove I kill it with Smallpox and then I win, but if you don't play Cove then I can't win because you will discard Misstep to smallpox and then immediately play Cove and start ticking it up, and you will have 4 mana to play Griffin from exile before Nether Spirit deals you 20

  12. #192

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    @spartan you are right. Not sure what I was thinking there. Ive adjusted my score down.

    Its possible I’ve made the worst deck or something very close to it. I feel like matches were playing out very differently in my head when i submitted it.
    The awkward thing about your deck is that you are never in the drivers' seat because you can't both attack and hold up Mana Tithe
    I think the Scythe Leopard deck is probably the worst one though lol

  13. #193
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Remember I'm not playing the black Saprazzan Cove, I'm playing the black Saprazzan Skerry. It's literally impossible for me to get Netherspirit into play without discarding it to Smallpox

    Heres how this matchup plays out
    Me: Bog
    You: Do nothing
    Me: BB, you force pitching Griffin
    You: Do nothing
    Me: Do nothing

    At this point if you play Cove I kill it with Smallpox and then I win, but if you don't play Cove then I can't win because you will discard Misstep to smallpox and then immediately play Cove and start ticking it up, and you will have 4 mana to play Griffin from exile before Nether Spirit deals you 20
    Ah! You are absolutely correct, it would be a draw.
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

  14. #194
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The awkward thing about your deck is that you are never in the drivers' seat because you can't both attack and hold up Mana Tithe
    I think the Scythe Leopard deck is probably the worst one though lol
    Yeah that was a fun one to figure out.

    Well I'm prepared for the next round. I've definitely given it more thought.
    Play 4 Card Blind!

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Its possible I’ve made the worst deck or something very close to it. I feel like matches were playing out very differently in my head when i submitted it.
    I think it's just that Leyline of the Void was really bad in this field. You're essentially playing a 3 card deck. Both our decks would have been significantly better with any random threat or answer in place of Leyline.

  16. #196
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    Yeah that was a fun one to figure out.

    Well I'm prepared for the next round. I've definitely given it more thought.
    Well, we kind of need to deduce all the results, then decide on the 'new' banned list before the next round.

    Here is the current "standings" as I have seen them:
    PirateKing (154)
    JosefK (124)
    Clx33 (108)
    CptHaddock (100)
    spirit of the wretch (94)
    H (91)
    Asthereal (88)
    FTW (83)
    JackaBo (80)
    tescrin (76)
    Mr. Safety (68)
    kombatkiwi (61)
    Tylert (51)
    spartan117 (45)
    ronco (31)
    Ace/Homebrew (28)
    apple713 (19)
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  17. #197
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I think it's just that Leyline of the Void was really bad in this field. You're essentially playing a 3 card deck. Both our decks would have been significantly better with any random threat or answer in place of Leyline.
    You say that and then next round you'll lose to triple LED into Increasing Devotion
    I was expecting to just lose to more Unburial Rites decks, but I guess you were prepared as well
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    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  18. #198
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    You say that and then next round you'll lose to triple LED into Increasing Devotion
    I was expecting to just lose to more Unburial Rites decks, but I guess you were prepared as well
    Well. You were prepared in that you could race most threats that Unburial could make. I expected more chalice decks so figured Rack wouldn't be a thing, then *NO ONE* brought a chalice haha. Go figure. (up to 11 per turn; which is enough to outrace Griselbrand for instance)

    I was "prepared" in that I knew RSphere would win OTP; and if I go 3-3 that seems good enough for a bad MU. If Unburial is getting cheesed by Chalice, RSphere, Leyline, Karakas, random removal, Force of Will, etc; they're basically hated out defacto.

    Not a good reason to then *not* run Chalice, RSphere, Karakas, or similar if you have the synergies; since they're free wins against a whole variety of the field.

    _____________
    Ban suggestions are the standard ones mentioned so far. BUT if you ban The Rack you also need to ban Shrieking Affliction or we'll just see that win next time. I'm personally building to dodge discard anyway, but if it's a problem with Rack removed then I'm fine either way.

    I'm personally fine with Griffon. The storage lands were mentioned but I think people didn't expect to see 3-4 Force-Griffon Storage-land decks. There's so many cards that hate storage lands (even if it's just because you can race them) that I think we'll see more focus on things like that. It originally seemed that no one would use storage lands and we had at least 4 that did.

    Nothing else seems broken yet, or even questioned to be broken.

    Were there "pillars" to the format; I imagine that Storage Force of Will is the "U control" to the UG aggro that we saw a couple of; similar to how we see colorless control and colorless aggro.
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    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  19. #199
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Oh I thought Chalice was banned when I made this
    I figured Grave Titan to be the target of choice since it has a faster clock and the card draw from Giz is irrelevant
    Or good ol' genuine Akroma.

    But yeah I couldn't come up with anything better than Sol land into double Rack, did a quick search for what I could do with the other two mana for the last card, lo and behold, a 5/5 with a... downside?

    But yeah out with The Rack or anything that punishes players for no cards in hand
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Rack and rack type effects should absolutely be on the list.

    Rack (and other rack effects): Fit into every archetype, the only way to play around it is to keep your opening 4 but if your opponent has another win condition in their deck like PirateKing outside of some really unique decks I don't think you have very many outs to that.

    Blackmail: Basically the best discard spell in the format, it has 0 downsides outside of the 1 black mana it uses.

    Also out of curiosity isn't therapy just better than thoughtseize/inqusition? If those 2 cards are banned should therapy be as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDeleuzeGuy View Post
    I want to play as close to possible a 100% reactive deck that also approached 0% variance in how it played. I want to play magic with as little variance as possible. Also had a foiled out miracles deck that was an investment of about 6 grand that is now nearly worthless.
    Quote Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee View Post
    My original post did that.

    I'd love to have a battle of wits with you but I see you lack the necessary equipment.

    Good day.

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