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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #2401
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I think my score will be identical to Asthereal's because I don't immediately see any cases where the difference between Thorn and Sphere actually makes a difference.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  2. #2402

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    2. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer

    1. Asthereal (TO): City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer WW - Death trigger beats faster growth.
    3. Tylert: City of traitors, Thorn of amethyst, Chronomaton, Steel overseer WW
    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Desperate Ritual, Collective Defiance, Hangarback Walker WL
    5. Moosedog: Karakas, Thalia, guardian of thraben, Leyline of sanctity, Leyline of the void WW
    6. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, City of Traitors, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs WL
    7. H: Thorn of Amethyst, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer, City of Traitors WW
    8. silkster: Shivan Gorge, Mercadian Bazaar, Maze of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale WW - I like your plan of rebelling against the round rule with all lands.
    9. FTW: Leyline of Anticipation, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Archon of Valor's Reach LL

    12w = 36 points

    Was not expecting all of these Sphere mirrors, although it is the best fair thing to do, so maybe I should have. At least I prepared with Hangarback.

  3. #2403

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Me: silkster: Shivan Gorge, Mercadian Bazaar, Maze of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

    1. Asthereal (TO): City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer 0 points
    2. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer 0 points
    3. Tylert: City of traitors, Thorn of amethyst, Chronomaton, Steel overseer 0 points
    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Desperate Ritual, Collective Defiance, Hangarback Walker 1 point
    5. Moosedog: Karakas, Thalia, guardian of thraben, Leyline of sanctity, Leyline of the void 6 points
    6. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, City of Traitors, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs 0 points
    7. H: Thorn of Amethyst, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer, City of Traitors 0 points
    9. FTW: Leyline of Anticipation, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Archon of Valor's Reach 6 points

    13 points. My worst round by far. Oh well. I had the Archon of Valor's Reach deck and was torn between the two. I did not think artifacts would do well this week. In my brainstormed meta, Bridge was doing really badly. And I didn't think people would go so all in on slow decks that just lost to Unburial Rites. I didn't think people would play City of Traitors to power out slow creatures when so much cheating was available. I always seem to underestimate how much people love playing Overseers in multiples. I guess having two vertical threats probably beats Mayor of Avabruck, which I was very surprised not to see.

    When I found Mind Swords a few weeks ago, I realized it lost to a charge land. It freaked me out to have such a weakness and I panicked out of it. I knew my deck was weak exactly to City of Traitors, but I figured that was only one card that wasn't looking great to me. I thought I'd learned my lesson not to avoid a strong strategy for fear of one card. Well....

    I thought someone might have been bold enough to repeat Iona from last week. It actually would have done really well this week.



    Quote Originally Posted by Moosedog View Post
    8. silkster: Shivan Gorge, Mercadian Bazaar, Maze of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    Shivan gorge does not target? How could you have known, ha? 0-6.
    I spent a long time going between Shivan Gorge and Keldon Megaliths because of Leyline of Sanctitiy and Hangarback Walker, which Megaliths can beat, but in combination with Steel Overseer.


    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Man, I would have liked 32 points (cause we would have drawn each other).

    The Trinisphere deck I was really excited about a long time ago was Trinisphere, City of Traitors,Dismember, Spined Thopter. I figured people probably don't know that phyrexian mana counts toward Trinisphere even if you're paying life. But this goes 3-3 to any discard and loses to both Anticipation and Foil, which I thought might be paired with the Mayor of Avabruck. Sadly, Trinisphere would have gone 3-3 (or better! Still beats Thalia on the draw and draws Bridge on the draw) against 7 decks this week!

  4. #2404
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I was so ready for this. haha

  5. #2405
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    I did not think artifacts would do well this week. In my brainstormed meta, Bridge was doing really badly. And I didn't think people would go so all in on slow decks that just lost to Unburial Rites.
    I was amazed how many slow, fair decks turned up. I really though it would be degenerate decks and hate decks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosedog View Post
    I was so ready for this. haha
    Haha you definitely were!

    I'm just now realizing the Storm deck that beats a sphere:

    Conjurerís Bauble, Conjurerís Bauble, Lionís Eye Diamond, Grapeshot

  6. #2406
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    The deck I had sitting for weeks was storm, but I couldn't beat a Sphere on the draw, a Leyline of the Void, or Force of Negation. I then found Reanimator, and determined I had to not lose to either of those incredibly powerful decks. After that, basically all my decks were 3 card blind + Leyline of the Void. I didn't find a way to break the Leyline of Anticipation stalemate and decided to avoid daws there.

    Storm:
    Conjurerís Bauble, Conjurerís Bauble, Mountain, Grapeshot

    Reanimator:
    Leyline of Anticipation, Lionís Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Archon of Valorís Reach

    Turbo Golem:
    Leyline of Anticipation, Lotus Petal, Grim Monolith, Lodestone Golem
    It was a tough meta read with so many broken strategies!

    I missed Storm but had other decks that do unfair things turn 1 OTP:
    City of Traitors, Trinisphere, other cards
    Mountain, Desperate Ritual, Priest of Urabrask, Incendiary Command (Gobbo's version looks better)
    Swamp, Dark Ritual, Priest of Gix, Mind Shatter (also worse than Gobbo's)
    Amulet of Vigor, Selesnya Sanctuary, Summer Bloom, 8-drop (Ugin, Karn, Archon, etc)
    Mountain, Desperate Ritual, Irencrag Feat, 8-drop
    Amulet of Vigor, Peat Bog, Parallax Nexus, Nyxathid

    How to beat Turn 1 decks? Turn 0 Reanimator! (which also draws the mirror and Turbo sphere). But because I just played it, it was the DTB so I feared most people would play around it. The Archon variant dodges most hate (Karakas, Bridge, FoN, Meekstone) but still loses to gravehate, Foil and Lands.dec.

    I thought about playing hate decks. I had Moosedog's double Leyline deck and a Foil deck. They crush unfair decks but lose hard to fair decks. If everyone just played hate or fair strategies, they don't look so hot, so I just hoped these styles of decks wouldn't see much play. The most balanced hate deck I could come up with was Trinisphere with gravehate, which at least beats fair decks OTP but loses to Ensnaring Bridge.

    But then what if more people played fair decks to beat the hate decks, or used inadequate hate (e.g. Bridge-Tongs without Leyline)?

    This was a tough Rock-Paper-Scissors between combo-hate-fair. I was a few seconds away from submitting 3sphere instead of Reanimator.

  7. #2407

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I'm just now realizing the Storm deck that beats a sphere:

    Conjurerís Bauble, Conjurerís Bauble, Lionís Eye Diamond, Grapeshot
    This beats Thorn (err, I was thinking Lodestone Golem), but Sphere of Resistence stops you from casting Conjurer's Bauble. I love the idea though. Using LED in 4 card blind is always satisfying. It's one of the reasons I went for Incorrigible Youths recently.

  8. #2408
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    This beats Thorn (err, I was thinking Lodestone Golem), but Sphere of Resistence stops you from casting Conjurer's Bauble. I love the idea though. Using LED in 4 card blind is always satisfying. It's one of the reasons I went for Incorrigible Youths recently.
    Oh right, I'm dumb, and there was a reason I stuck with good ole Mountain originally. I guess maybe it is marginally better to play LED though since it beats Golem.

  9. #2409

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    GoblinWalkmaster results for Round "Traitorous Overseer!"

    1. Asthereal (TO): City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer
    Defying death 3-3

    2. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer
    Defying death 3-3

    3. Tylert: City of traitors, Thorn of amethyst, Chronomaton, Steel overseer
    Defying death 3-3

    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Desperate Ritual, Collective Defiance, Hangarback Walker
    That's me!

    5. Moosedog: Karakas, Thalia, guardian of thraben, Leyline of sanctity, Leyline of the void
    Hangin' back 6-0

    6. alphastryk: Leyline of the Void, City of Traitors, Ensnaring Bridge, Scalding Tongs
    Defying death 4-1

    7. H: Thorn of Amethyst, Steel Overseer, Steel Overseer, City of Traitors
    Defying death 3-3

    8. silkster: Shivan Gorge, Mercadian Bazaar, Maze of Ith, The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    Defying death 4-1

    9. FTW: Leyline of Anticipation, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Archon of Valor's Reach
    Out of reach :( 0-6

    Total: 26 points

  10. #2410
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    The Trinisphere deck I was really excited about a long time ago was Trinisphere, City of Traitors,Dismember, Spined Thopter. I figured people probably don't know that phyrexian mana counts toward Trinisphere even if you're paying life. But this goes 3-3 to any discard and loses to both Anticipation and Foil, which I thought might be paired with the Mayor of Avabruck. Sadly, Trinisphere would have gone 3-3 (or better! Still beats Thalia on the draw and draws Bridge on the draw) against 7 decks this week!
    Oh I like that version. Dismember is a great way to handle resolved threats OTD.

    I leaned towards Noxious Revival and Chronomaton because Noxious handles discard, Foil and Reanimator. But that build struggles OTD vs any deck just playing creatures. Like double Overseer or Mayor.

    I also considered one with Quicksand and Hangarback Walker (X=2 for 3 mana through Sphere, then keep growing), which plays around removal better than Chronomaton but gets wrecked by Reanimator and double Overseer.

    Double Overseer was the fair deck I feared the most. It either 3-3 or 6-0 every hate deck I could come up with. Wrath found the best one to beat the mirror too.

    Edit: I think Wrath wins this by a photo finish with Hangarback Walker mirror tech!
    Last edited by FTW; 06-24-2020 at 10:03 PM.

  11. #2411
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    The Trinisphere deck I was really excited about a long time ago was Trinisphere, City of Traitors,Dismember, Spined Thopter. I figured people probably don't know that phyrexian mana counts toward Trinisphere even if you're paying life. But this goes 3-3 to any discard and loses to both Anticipation and Foil, which I thought might be paired with the Mayor of Avabruck. Sadly, Trinisphere would have gone 3-3 (or better! Still beats Thalia on the draw and draws Bridge on the draw) against 7 decks this week!

    I'm fairly sure Trinisphere checks last, and Phyrexian mana costs do *not* count towards the 3 mana minimum, since phyrexian mana is technically a fancy alternate cost, not paying mana. The rules say the symbol means "pay 1 black mana or 2 life", and Trinisphere only cares about "mana paid", non CMC. This is different from say Delve, because Delve does count as paying the mana.

  12. #2412
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I'm fairly sure Trinisphere checks last, and Phyrexian mana costs do *not* count towards the 3 mana minimum, since phyrexian mana is technically a fancy alternate cost, not paying mana. The rules say the symbol means "pay 1 black mana or 2 life", and Trinisphere only cares about "mana paid", non CMC. This is different from say Delve, because Delve does count as paying the mana.
    Yeah, although the interaction has been bugged on MTGO for as long as I know of. Not sure if it has been fixed recently though.

    But yes, Trinisphere checks last and paying life for Phyrexian Mana is not "paying mana" in game terms.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  13. #2413
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I've mistakenly played thorn of amethyst instead of sphere of resistance :( i'm bad :(

  14. #2414

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I'm fairly sure Trinisphere checks last, and Phyrexian mana costs do *not* count towards the 3 mana minimum, since phyrexian mana is technically a fancy alternate cost, not paying mana. The rules say the symbol means "pay 1 black mana or 2 life", and Trinisphere only cares about "mana paid", non CMC. This is different from say Delve, because Delve does count as paying the mana.
    Ah, you're right. I know well how Trinisphere works, but I got the Phyrexian mana wrong. 601.2b is long before 601.2f. I muse have confused it with Delve (or Convoke!). Well, it's a good thing I didn't play that deck.

    Looking forward, I'm okay with starting with no ban list at all. In past Banathons, did you just ban the cards from the top 1 deck (or decks tied for top)? I think Pauper will be deep and interesting and I'm in favour of banning top 3 decks or decks that average 3.5 points per match.

    Oof, I just realized that I was one card away from the winning deck, but because of the way I approached it, I couldn't see it. I was afraid of Empty the Warrens and Mayor of Avabruck, but if I had just played two copies of Maze of Ith as my defence, I'd have gotten 37 points for the round (losing points only to Scalding Tongs and Collective Defiance). The 81 turn clock wasn't too slow; I just didn't defend it quite right.
    Last edited by silkster; 06-25-2020 at 04:22 AM.

  15. #2415
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Super weird round where many of us overlooked many options.
    If I had noticed the Bauble, I would have banned it. The Grapeshot deck is why I banned Top after all.
    Oh well.

    Preliminary standings for the final round:
    1. Wrath of Pie: 36 - 4,5
    2. FTW: 30 - 3,8
    3. alphastryk: 28 - 3,5
    4. Asthereal (TO): 26 - 3,3
    4. GoblinSmashmaster: 26 - 3,3
    4. H: 26 - 3,3
    7. Tylert: 18 - 2,3
    8. silkster: 13 - 1,6
    9. Moosedog: 9 - 1,1

    Which would lead to just a 0.1 season point difference between the numbers one and two!
    So I checked whether I made any rounding errors, but I didn't.
    If the scores for the final round are correct like this, these would be the final standings for the season:

    1. Wrath of Pie: 41,6
    2. FTW: 41,5
    3. Tylert: 38,2
    4. Asthereal (TO): 35,7
    5. silkster: 33,9
    6. Moosedog: 29,1
    7. alphastryk: 28
    8. GoblinSmashmaster: 24,1
    9. H: 22,6

    By far the closest finish we've had. I'm inclined to congratulate you both.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  16. #2416

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Tylert could have played Aether Vial for free with flash thanks to Leyline of Anticipation. All he needed was Windborn Muse and a way to deal with lands to make it harder to pay the Muse tax (Acidic Slime is a candidate).

  17. #2417
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Tylert could have played Aether Vial for free with flash thanks to Leyline of Anticipation. All he needed was Windborn Muse and a way to deal with lands to make it harder to pay the Muse tax (Acidic Slime is a candidate).
    Realm Razer!

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Tylert could have played Aether Vial for free with flash thanks to Leyline of Anticipation. All he needed was Windborn Muse and a way to deal with lands to make it harder to pay the Muse tax (Acidic Slime is a candidate).
    Even just Myr Superion, Deputy of Detention and a good 4-5 drop (Acidic Slime, Ravenous Chupacabra) seems good.

    Free Aether Vial was one of the reasons I went for Archon over Iona (that pesky Deputy!). Free Meekstone was another fear. There were just too many powerful artifacts that get through Iona. But I never thought about Vial with Leyline. Strong.

  19. #2419
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Looks like the current scores are final, so Wrath, congrats on winning this one!

    I'll be editing all the things today, and hope to open submissions for round one of season 7.
    Stay tuned!
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    4 CARD BLIND - SEASON SEVEN: PAUPER & PEASANT BANNATHON

    Welcome to the seventh season of Four Card Blind. How 4CB works is described in more detail below.
    This season, we will play six rounds of Pauper: only common cards allowed, and then six rounds of Peasant: one uncommon allowed (but not mandatory), the other cards have to be commons.
    Also, we will turn this into a bannathon, where after each round, the cards from the three best scoring decks in that round are added to the banned list. If more decks are tied for third, all cards from those are banned.
    There is one exception to the bannings: basic lands will NOT get banned.
    So the banned list will grow with every round, constantly changing the meta, but after the halfway point, suddenly uncommons enter the equasion, turning things upside down even more.
    Note: we start with an empty banned list, so even the most broken combos can be played in round one. Don't worry though. That shouldn't last long.

    For this season, we stick to the scoring system from previous seasons:
    All players score season points for all rounds they play. Season points for each round equal total points scored for the round, divided by the number of opponents in that round.
    The tournament organizer will make calculations (or have Google Spreadsheet figure that stuff out) and keep track of standings below. Note: season points are always rounded to one decimal.



    ROUND 1 of SEASON 7: PAUPER & PEASANT BANNATHON has started.

    This round we play Pauper (only commons allowed.)

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 1, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 1st of July, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Desert, Terror, Fallen Askari.
    So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S07R01 in the topic.
    Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.

    Happy deck designing everybody!
    Last edited by Asthereal; 06-27-2020 at 03:52 PM.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

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