Fully agree on an eventual 4th card replacement.Originally Posted by FTW
Vs FTW, 5 zombies T1 and + 5 life wins OTP --> deal 8 + 6 + 4 +2 = 20 damages, while taking 15.
Vs Maxx, hydra does not trample, so it is hard to lose for you, as you gain life too, and can always block. you replenish your tokens every three turns, T1 2 tokens, T4 5 tokens, T7 8 tokens. You gain more life than griffin can make you lose, so you can just wait until you cast Emrakul, and attack only with it.
Why should you always PM yourself before the round start?
You could maybe have the same deadline as us.
It seems pretty unfair that you already spend the time to organise the game, and that it is much harder for you.
I am sure everyone will trust that you do not read the PMs with the specific headline for a round before you submit your deck.
i do not understand your statèment
I will FoN the from the underfloor no matter if it was cast by madness or not. As FoN exile the spell you will have no more chance to cast it again.
And ulamog will envers the batteries way sooner than emrakul
He will play floor during your turn, while you cannot use the alternate cost of FoN. So if you do not FoN a LED, it is 5 tokens T1.
If you FoW a LED, it is 2 tokens T1, then 5 T4.
It is not FoW true
Score changed
Last edited by Serguei; 02-11-2021 at 01:03 AM.
Oh, yeah, I kept forgetting about the life gain as well.
So I guess I should 3-3 with FTW and 6-0 with Maxx?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Me: silkster: Shocker, Path to Exile, Chancellor of the Tangle, Leyline of the Void
1. Asthereal (TO): Counterspell, Counterspell, Vraska the Unseen, Vraska, Relic Seeker
I think I'm faster than this. 6 points
2. jhhdk: Exploration, Exploration, Xantid Swarm, Scute Swarm
On my play, you have to block with Xantid Swarm to protect the Scute Swarm, and I can tag it with Path the following turn before it makes a copy. On your play, I'm too slow. WL, 3 pointsI think I lose actually, but I have to revisit this later. Meeting now. ... jhhdk sequences better to avoid making two free 1/1/s (the inefficiency!). LL
3. Wrath of Pie: Elixir of Immortality, Assassin's Trophy, Transgress the Mind, Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
On your play, you can assassinate my 1/1 and Transgress the 6/7. On my play, I can catch your Trophy and Transgress and I'm only now realizing that Elixir never goes to your graveyard, so I don't think I'm fast enough to beat the City-Tree since I'm only getting in for 1 or 2 damage per turn. I thought about playing Assassin's Trophy over Path, but I thought more decks would be like mine or play Glistener Elf. 0 points
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Exploration, Steppe Lynx, Cloudstone Curio, Exploration
I'm about 90% sure that the rules changed so that this is no longer an infinite combo, but Path to Exile gets you regardless. WW, 6 points
This rule changed because of Azusa in Amulet Titan in modern. Or at least, that was the interaction that was relevant when it changed.
5. dte: dark ritual, tel-jilad stylus, mesmeric fiend, reality acid
Peasant all-stars! The Stylus mocks my attempt at anti-recursion. On my play, my turn 2 attack is met with block+tuck, and then I Path the Fiend when you replay it. You eat the Chancellor forever, and my Shocker catches the acid. WL, 3 points
6. Reeplcheep: Exploration, Azusa, lost but seeking, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
More should-have-chosen-Assassin's-Trophy. I guess Path is only getting me 3 points here and there where Trophy gets its points in chunks of 6. This looks bad for me. 0 points
7. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, From Under the Floorboards
Ugh, it's the degeneracy that I was hoping to see, but all wrong. Four 2/2s is too much for me. Where are all the Forces of Negation? 0 points
8. FTW: Veil of Summer, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Archon of Valor's Reach
Ah, Finally. Your backup plan of hardcasting doesn't get very far into the perfectly sized 6/7 vigilance reach. 6 points
9. alphastryk: Force of Will, Dack Fayden, Beacon of Destruction, Land Equilibrium
Shocker gets the job done. 6 points
10. maxx!: Mistcutter Hydra, Misthollow Griffin, Food Chain, Force of Will
The play is easy. On the draw, I play T1 Shocker, you play T2 Hydra, I pass and exile the Hydra on your upkeep when you have neither 3 lands nor the ability to use Force of Negation, and then I catch the Griffin into your graveyard by not showing Leyline of the Void. WW, 6 points
12. Tylert: Liliana of the veil, Leyline of sanctity, Assassin's trophy, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'm fast enough on the play only. WL, 3 points
13. Serguei: Force of Negation, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Swords to Plowshares, Misthollow Griffin
You have 2 answers for 2 threats, and 2 threats for my 1 answer. 0 points
12 W, 12 L, for 36 points, I think.
I really thought Unburial Rites would both be more popular, and I didn't run Ritual + Petal + Barbed Shocker + Void Leyline because I thought Force + Griffin would show up a little more than it did. Let's see how it would have done: 6, 6, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 3, 0, 6, 0. At first pass, it seems exactly the same. Hunh.
I agree that this is really unfortunate. I don't know if it's more fair to make everyone play blanks in the spots of their Force of Will. I think I'm neutral on the substitution and could probably be persuaded one way or the other, not that it matters. Having missed the first round, I'm not exactly gunning for first.
Last edited by silkster; 02-10-2021 at 05:41 PM.
The autoquote!
I think I got this MU wrong.
Actually I think I win OTP:
T1 DR.
If FoN, I'll fiend hydra T2, stylus T3, put fiend and hydra back at the end of maxx's turn, and exile hydra for good on T4. Then acid on chain T5, acid on griffin T6, fiend FTW.
If no FoN, fiend>FoN, stylus. End of maxx's turn 1, I'll put back Fiend and FoN, and definitively exile hydra T2, FoN T3, and exile/destroy chain T4. Kill griffin if ever played, and fiend FTW.
OTD, still a draw, as I cannot prevent hydra for 1 to resolve T2.
4-1?
jhhdk vs Silkster is a 6-0 for jhhdk: the token is a copy of scute swarm even if the original is removed in response.
1. Asthereal (TO): Counterspell, Counterspell, Vraska the Unseen, Vraska, Relic Seeker WW
2. jhhdk: Exploration, Exploration, Xantid Swarm, Scute Swarm <--- myself
3. Wrath of Pie: Elixir of Immortality, Assassin's Trophy, Transgress the Mind, Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree WL
4. GoblinSmashmaster: Exploration, Steppe Lynx, Cloudstone Curio, Exploration WW
5. dte: dark ritual, tel-jilad stylus, mesmeric fiend, reality acid LL
6. Reeplcheep: Exploration, Azusa, lost but seeking, Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle, Kozilek, Butcher of Truth LL pretty close OTP though.
7. H: Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, From Under the Floorboards WW My army grows fastestest
8. FTW: Veil of Summer, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Archon of Valor's Reach WL
9. alphastryk: Island, Dack Fayden, Beacon of Destruction, Land Equilibrium WW Edit was WL when FoW was FoN
10. maxx!: Mistcutter Hydra, Misthollow Griffin, Food Chain, Force of Will WW I can resolve my spells before you can kill me and I can chumb block infinite/infinite hydras all day.
11. silkster: Shocker, Path to Exile, Chancellor of the Tangle, Leyline of the Void WW Edited was WL, but If I can play land as Scute resolves I win.
12. Tylert: Liliana of the veil, Leyline of sanctity, Assassin's trophy, Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, WW
13. Serguei: Force of Negation, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Swords to Plowshares, Misthollow Griffin WW, not really sure how your deck works if it does.
Thought about having Valakut or Sylvan Safekeeper in Xantid Swarm slot, Valakut would've worked better it seems.
Last edited by jhhdk; 02-12-2021 at 08:08 AM.
Oh no. I really screwed up this round. I had typed up my PM to send in Unburial Rites, LED, Iona, Daze, when I realized that Daze won't work if I discard it (lol) and had no backup deck in my head. I didn't look at the banlist again and just thought a FoW deck would be good. Oops! Sorry. Totally fine with taking 0 points.
Ohh!? I'll have to update my results.jhhdk vs Silkster is a 6-0 for jhhdk: the token is a copy of scute swarm even if the original is removed in response.
Is this is don't pass priority kind of situation where I get to immediately play a land after Scute Swarm resolves?
It does seem like it's too late once trigger is on the stack.
Scute Swarm rulings:
2020-09-25: The token copy will have Scute Swarm’s ability. It will also be able to create copies of itself.
2020-09-25: The token copy won’t copy counters or damage marked on Scute Swarm, nor will it copy other effects that have changed Scute Swarm’s power, toughness, types, color, and so on. Normally, this means the token will simply be a Scute Swarm, but if any copy effects have affected the original Scute Swarm, the token will take those into account.
2020-09-25: If Scute Swarm leaves the battlefield before its triggered ability resolves, the token will still enter the battlefield as a copy of Scute Swarm, using Scute Swarm’s copiable values from when it was last on the battlefield.
2020-09-25: A landfall ability triggers whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control for any reason. It triggers whenever you play a land, as well as whenever a spell or ability puts a land onto the battlefield under your control.
2020-09-25: A landfall ability doesn’t trigger if a permanent already on the battlefield becomes a land.
2020-09-25: Whenever a land enters the battlefield under your control, each landfall ability of the permanents you control will trigger. You can put them on the stack in any order. The last ability you put on the stack will be the first one to resolve.
Yeah, that was hilarious when I realized that you literally lose to two cards.
Well, the token isn't a copy until the sixth land. Specifically, you need the trick of NOT making 1/1s for lands 4 and 5, which hasn't been mentioned yet.
I agree. Question would be what would make sense to put in place of his Cloudstone. Another lynx or 3rd exploration seems like the only obvious choices. Valakut would probably be better, but a bit of a stretch.
I just want to say how much I appreciate that in this wide open format of Legacy plus all the land drops, someone played a peasant deck and someone played a Land Equilibrium that probably hasn't been cast in a sanctioned match since the introduction of the euro, if ever.
S: Shocker
J: Forest, Exploration, Forest, Exploration, Forest, Xantid Swarm
S: Attack Xantid blocks
J: Forest, Forest, Scute Swarm, can you PtE here?, Forest
No priority to cast Path until after the landfall trigger is on the stack, so too late.
Good point.
It's hard to determine a fair substitution here. Maybe another Exploration or Gaea's Touch (Azusa would be too good because it's a 2nd body vs decks with 1 removal), some noncreature permanent castable on turn 2 that boosts the Landfall-Lynx engine but still makes the deck crumble to 1 removal spell. It may not change many results since Lynx dies to removal in most cases, but at least it would allow a fair 4-card deck.
Blanks are another option. The FoW decks still work if the 4th card is changed to Island. They're just weaker than intended, but that's not much different than a combo being weaker than intended because the 4th card is a dud. In both cases the submitted deck can't do all of what it was supposed to do because of rules (illegal card or illegal interaction).
I wouldn't want to disqualify the FoW decks either. I expected some people to miss that FoW was banned, because this is the first Deviant round it's been relevant. The banlist is not intuitive. FoW is banned, but T1 decks like Unburial and Barbed Shocker are legal, but T2 decks like Shelldock and Show and Tell are banned.
I'm easy either way. Any changes don't affect my standings. I already 6-0 the FoW decks without the blank and would 3-3 vs Lynx whether powered up or not. It's more about what would be fair for everyone else.
If we follow what we've been doing. it should be Zero points for FoW decks, they are illegal, and jhhdk should keep his deck. That would be the fairest decision to take. I've posted decks which did not work because of a rule missunderstanding and finished with somewhere near zero points without anyone asking for a change. There is no other good solution.
Once again in a competitive tournaments, illegal cards are replaced by basic lands and they got one game loss and that 's it. They are not disqualified.
Here we are just for fun ( or I miss the 10k$ to win and I would have submitted few other changes XD) So for me the downgrade from Fow to Fon is not such a big deal. But if you do not want advantage them just replace it by an island or a Waste but nothing more.
On the other hand a deck which is not working as expected is a sad thing but there is nothing we can do about it. There is nothing illegal he just does not work. So I will not touch it, moreover after having all the list.
About the FoW vs. FoN situation.
I wasn't going to vote on this issue.
My inital reaction was: Fine. I didn't consider FoN existing and thought I was safe from free counterspells, that is my own fault.
FoN and FoW affects my deck in the same way.
I think that replacing FoW's with FoN's is a bit of a problem for people who created decks where FoN is superior to FoW,
If there are any decks that rely on recursion that could've won despite FoW but can't with FoN, I'd have to oppose replacing FoW's with FoN's.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote