Chronomaton has the main advantage of being colorless, white has a version in Cenn's Tactician and there are some functionally worse variants as well but none of them are colorless.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Ace/Homebrew: Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Unmask, Faerie Macabre
DD (+2) 1. Asthereal: Mishra's Factory, Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire, Mayor of Avabruck
WW (+6) 2. Wrath of Pie: Shelldock Isle, Chronomaton, Lion's Eye Diamond, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
DD (+2) 3. Whoshim: Dwarven Hold, Greater Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance
DD (+2) 4. CptHaddock: Cathedral of War Inkmoth Nexus Maze of Ith The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
DD (+2) 5. JackaBo: Pendelhaven, inkmoth nexus, drop of honey, field of ruin
LL (+0) 7. spirit of the wretch: Keldon Megaliths, Rakdos Carnarium, Kitesail Freebooter, Ensnaring Bridge
WL (+3) 8. Strawberry Dwarf: City of Traitors, Isochron Scepter, Selesnya Charm, Mental Misstep
WL (+3) 9. Tylert: Sphere of resistance, chronomaton, city of traitors, field of ruins
LL (+0)10. FTW: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
WW (+6) 11. H: Bayou, Encroach, Mind Swords, Young Wolf
WD (+4) 12. apple713: City of Traitors, Isochron Scepter, Assassin's Trophy, Steel Overseer
WW (+6) 13. PirateKing: Cavern of Souls, Noble Hierarch, Nightshade Peddler. Swiftblade Vindicator
WW (+6) 14. kombatkiwi: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites
42, not terrible!
I'm looking forward to next week. This is always the worst part, waiting a whole nother week.
Thanks for organizing this Asthereal!
It would matter against Sphere and other cost increasing cards, but it would improve other matchups. I think I may have done slightly better this week if I had switched to Sandstone Needle.
Concerning Field of Ruin, I am fine with it. My deck last week folded to FoW, and this week's deck folded to FoR. However, I think it is important to have answers in the format, and each requires some investment and has some weaknesses. I would not mind if FoR were banned, but I don't think it is holding the format back too much. Maybe my opinion will change, but it seems fine.
They can also be played around if you think they will show up in numbers. PirateKing played around FoW/counters this week (though, unfortunately for him, only one counterspell appeared in lists this week).
KOMBATKIWI ROUND 4: 51 POINTS
LED
Karakas
Unburial Rites
Iona
Results Disagreement:
spirit of the wretch
1. Asthereal (Factory Grove PFire Mayor) play/draw turn 1 Iona on Green +6
2. Wrath of Pie (Shelldock Chronomaton LED Ulamog) Lose. I can't play my Iona because it will get annihilated away but they can't combo off before I play anything because I will Karakas bounce Ulamog and then they will die to Iona. So they will hideaway the Ulamog and never play it but then I still can't play anything and I die to Chronomaton. Cool deck +0
3. Whoshim (Hold Gargadon Electrodominance Balance) Turn 1 Iona on White (edit: or Red? why not :P) +6
4. CptHaddock (Cathedral Inkmoth Maze Tabernacle) I can't attack through Maze but I can use Karakas to pay for Tabernacle and Inkmoth can't attack through Iona +2
5. Jackabo (Pendelhaven Inkmoth Drop Field) Iona on Green +6
6. Ace/Homebrew (Forge Pyrokinesis Unmask Macabre) Can't beat Faerie Macabre +0
7. Spirit of the Wretch (Megaliths Carnarium Bridge Freebooter) They can play Bridge on their turn 4 which means that when I'm on the play they die to Iona. When I'm on the draw they get Bridge down before they die but with turn 1 Iona on Black the Freebooter is stuck in their hand and they can never get hellbent for Megaliths to kill me +4
8. Strawberry Dwarf (City Scepter Charm Misstep) Iona on Green +6
9. Tylert (Sphere Chronomaton City Field) On the play Iona races Chronomaton, on the draw I don't beat Sphere of Resistance +3
10. FTW (City Sphere Chronomaton Chronomaton) Same as above +3
11. H (Bayou Encroach Wolf Swords) On the play he can't beat Iona on the draw he takes my combo +3
12. apple713 (City Scepter Trophy Overseer) Iona on Green +6
13. PirateKing (Cavern Hierarch Peddler Swiftblade) If I'm on the play I play Iona on Green and you can't cast anything if I'm on the draw I name Red and I race exalted Peddler +6
Iona was a good choice
Inkwell would have only been better against the deck with Maze and lost a bunch of games that Iona won
Karakas was irrelevant again though and I would have done better with the City tech from last week
@WrathofPie: I think you win vs H even on the draw, if your opponent goes turn 1 Wolf Swords when they are on the play and then you keep Chronomaton Shelldock don't you win the game? You just play Shelldock on your turn 1 and then Chronomaton the next turn and you can race. (EDIT: Wrong, see a few posts below)
Apple713 should be W/L vs the Shelldock deck I think
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 03-14-2019 at 04:37 AM.
Even funnier, you can bounce Ulamog but it has a cast trigger, so you have to Rites Iona back at some point (otherwise you lose your land and thus can't flashback Rites), then I can destroy her with Ulamog's cast trigger.
Silly me forgot Mind Swords would exile his Encroach, that would do it.@WrathofPie: I think you win vs H even on the draw, if your opponent goes turn 1 Wolf Swords when they are on the play and then you keep Chronomaton Shelldock don't you win the game? You just play Shelldock on your turn 1 and then Chronomaton the next turn and you can race
Shelldock enters tapped (hilariously, it is part of hideaway), so it is way too slow vs. Trophy on a Scepter.Apple713 should be W/L vs the Shelldock deck I think
Well it doesn't matter whether he keeps encroach in his hand or not because he doesn't have 2 mana to cast both Mind Swords and Encroach on his turn 1 anyway
So you are agreeing with me right? You can still beat it when you are on the play because he can't cast trophy on his turn1 and you can play Ulamog on your turn 2Shelldock enters tapped (hilariously, it is part of hideaway), so it is way too slow vs. Trophy on a Scepter.
It also means you should be WW vs Jackabo
Turn 1 vs Trophy deck: LED, Shelldock, hideaway trigger on the stack crack crack LED, shuffle Chrono+LED+Ulamog, hideaway resolve put Ulamog under Shelldock, stack your deck putting LED on top (which you can do because Hideaway lets you put the remaining cards on the bottom in the order you choose).
Opponent turn 1: Isochron
Your turn 2: LED Ulamog
The same line lets you win vs Jackabo even on the draw because they have no way to activate field of ruin on their second turn
Last edited by kombatkiwi; 03-14-2019 at 03:36 AM.
@kombatkiwi: you are right. I can't Freebooter and ping you
Sneaky Pirates of Doom - Not really a Legacy Team anymore.
Actually maybe Shelldock doesn't beat Encroach on the draw, if H plays turn 1 Encroach on the play taking your Shelldock and you go for the LED reshuffle then by the 4CB rules the shuffle goes off in the worst possible order for you, meaning you draw Ulamog first and then Chronomaton, at which point these 2 cards get Mind Swordsed and then you lose. If you don't go for the turn 1 LED reshuffle then turn 2 Mind Swords exiles either LED or Ulamog (or both) and you have no way to get Shelldock back so you also lose. If you play turn 1 LED pass to play around turn 2 Mind Swords then you just die to 1/1 wolf beatdowns
This seasons deck:
Pendelhaven Inkmoth Drop Field
1. Asthereal (Factory Grove PFire Mayor) I playout my lands. If you ever play avabruck i kill it with drop. If you attack with factory you cant pfire,thus i get to attack for 2 infect with pendle pump,which races factory. If you hold up pfire i can attack and hold up pendlehaven.I think i win both on play and draw. WW +6 (6)
2. Wrath of Pie (Shelldock Chronomaton LED Ulamog) [EDIT:I go with wraths results] WL +3 (9)
3. Whoshim (Hold Gargadon Electrodominance Balance) Even on the draw FoR wins over dwarven hold. +6 (15)
4. CptHaddock (Cathedral Inkmoth Maze Tabernacle) We were basically brewing the same deck :) If we race i think you win,since I need to destroy maze before i can kill you, and if I do i cant pump. So my best chance is to kill your nexus with FoR zand draw DD +2 (17)
5. Jackabo (Pendelhaven Inkmoth Drop Field) ME
6. Ace/Homebrew (Forge Pyrokinesis Unmask Macabre) Your best bet is to sac your wincon and kill my nexus, DD +2 (19)
7. Spirit of the Wretch (Megaliths Carnarium Bridge Freebooter) Since each land comes into play tapped, they got 2 mana on turn 3 and 3 mana on turn 4. OTP they can take Drop with freebooter, next turn i Ruin their manland. They never get to play bridge and Inkomoth races Freeboter +6 WW (25)
8. Strawberry Dwarf (City Scepter Charm Misstep) OTP if you just makes knights and pump last turn:t3 2 damage, t4 4 damage (6 total), t5 6 damage (10 total), t6 (pump) 10damage (20 total - kill). My clock is turn1 1inefct, turn2 3infect, turn3 5infect, turn4 7infect, turn5 9infect, turn6 11infct- kill. So we win the race when we start. WL +3 (28)
9. Tylert (Sphere Chronomaton City Field) I dont think I can kill yourfieldwhile you're tappedout. So you get to chose to kill nexus or my green source to protect your guy. If you kill pendlehaven i raceyou, so you kill my guy, i kill your guy and we draw. DD +2 (30)
10. FTW (City Sphere Chronomaton Chronomaton) Same as above DD +2 (32)
11. H (Bayou Encroach Wolf Swords) OTP Enchroach must take my pendlehaven: if they would take nexus, i play pendlehaven and drop (or i loose it to swords anyway), this means he can't play swords or he will lose his undied-wolf, he cant play wolf or drop will kill it and stay on the battlefield,a nd then next turn i get to play FoR and kill his land and we draw. So they must take pendlehaven and i get to play land pass, he does his thing and i have no more cards.
OTP i get to play nexus. They can take one land with or enchroach or land + drop with swords. Next turn i can attack with nexus and wins the race versus undied-wolf. WL +3 (35)
12. apple713 (City Scepter Trophy Overseer) Cant beat turn2 tropthy since my FoR is too slow LL +0 (35)
13. PirateKing (Cavern Hierarch Peddler Swiftblade) I present a 7 turn clock as best. On turn 3 i get to destoy your land stranding any remaining creatures. If you play more than one creature I play my drop and keep racing you.I dont see how you can win here. WW +6 (41)
14 .KombatWiki (Iona enablers) I'm too slow and my removal don't beat iona. LL +0 (41)
41points... I had such high hopes for this deck. I would have beaten any other fatty than Iona in the last game. Oh well. Scepter was very innovative, specially with the busted trophy.
I certainly don't think FoR is TOO STRONG. It kills a land on turn 3. It practically only punishes storage lands, which is fine. I feel that encroach is more busted if we're talking LD. OTP it's oops i win versus many decks. On the other hand it trades with missteep and requires black so I guess it's OK. I'm for no bans!
FTW: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
1. Asthereal: Sphere wins. WW +6
2. Wrath of Pie: OTP Sphere wins. OTD you can pay the tax. WL +3
3. Whoshim: I'm faster OTP but not OTD. DL +1
4. CptHaddock: I can't grow Chronos due to Tabernacle. Best case I hit for 1 a turn, outraced by exalted Inkmoth. LL +0
5. JackaBo: See above. DD +2
6. Ace/Homebrew: OTD even if you Unmask Sphere, I can play 1 Chrono at a time to beat Pyro+Goblin. WW +6
7. spirit of the wretch: Sphere wins. WW +6
8. Strawberry Dwarf: Sphere wins, 2nd Chrono gets there. WW +6
9. Tylert: You have the better version of the mirror. LL +0
10. FTW: Me
11. H: OTP Sphere wins. OTD Encroach wrecks me. WL +3
12. apple713: Sphere wins. WW +6
13. PirateKing: Sphere stops your 2 drops. WW +6
14. kombatkiwi: OTP Sphere wins. OTD Chronos too slow. WL +3
Total = 48 pts
Edit: Changed results for Wrath of Pie (WW to WL) and WhoSlim (DD to DL).
Last edited by FTW; 03-14-2019 at 09:05 PM.
If I lead with double Chrono, then yes I can't race Balance if you don't Suspend Gargadon first.
Instead I play just 1 Chrono at first (and Sphere) and beatdown as a 2/2 or 3/3. If you Balance it away, I play the 2nd Chrono after and race Gargadon. If just suspend Gargadon and save the Balance, 1 Chrono outraces it. To avoid losing, you have to Balance away my 1st Chrono and sac DH to Gargadon to kill my City. Then I can't cast the 2nd Chrono. However you can't cast Gargadon through Sphere without a land. So we draw.
BANNINGS:
I'm fine with Field of Ruins. It has a steep enough design cost that only some decks can run it. 3 lands is limiting. Ancient Tomb deals you damage. City decks have to lead with T1 Field T2 City, otherwise they lose City too. (e.g. in TylerT's deck, if he goes T1 Sphere T2 Field then he can't cast Chrono; T2 Chrono T3 Field leaves Chrono a 1/1. To keep City he needs T2 Sphere T3 Field or T2 Field T3 Sphere. So there's a tempo cost, and Sphere is much worse not on turn 1). Field is a land destruction slot, which means running fewer threats or answers to nonland threats. It's been overperforming in our meta because cards like Chronomaton, Student of Warfare, Karakas, manlands and storage lands see a lot of play, which the decks that don't care about it (aggro, turn 1 combo) see little play. Sea's Claim would win most of those games, except against Chronomaton. He's a jerk.
Encroach might need banning. Like Blackmail, stripping mana sources OTP is dirty. It hasn't put up results yet (OTD that deck can't beat anything on the board bigger than a 1/1...), but in a better deck it could be OP.
I changed mymind regarding ulamog. It's the anihilator one.
If I suspend Gargadon, Cast Electro, Cast Restore Balance, I have 0 cards in hand, so you have to pitch the 2nd Chrono. I can leave my land and yours in play so that I can pay for Gargadon when he comes off of suspend. And I believe I wrote turn 7 in my original, but I can play all three on turn 6 (play land; 1 mana; 2 mana; 3 mana; 4 mana; cast everything). Whatever you have not played by that point is ripped from your hand. Playing out both Chronos turn 1 and Sphere on turn 5 still does not allow you to deal 20 by turn 6 on the play, unless I am much mistaken. So I think I win both games.
Play 4 Card Blind!
Currently Playing
Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Resolving the Hideaway from Shelldock Isle puts the unpicked cards on the bottom of your library, no shuffling, so there is no random effect.
I learned something about hideaway today (that never comes up in 3CB), looks like I need to look at all my matchups again.
EDIT: Hopefully I got all the matches right this time. I also win on the play against the Scepter/Selesnya Charm hand.
EDIT2: I can cast LED through a Sphere with Shelldock mana and LED makes 3 mana and Shelldock only requires 1 to activate, that means I win against FTW on the play and force a draw against Tylert (has to sac City to play Field, which destroys Shelldock).
Ah right, you can beat my line.
But dropping your hand costs 5 mana. Suspend = 1. Electrodominance = 3 (RR+1). Balance = 1 (0 +1). Sphere adds +2 basically.
I just realized OTP I win this race.
Me - Double Chrono
You - DH
Me - 2/2s
You - 1 counter
Me - 3/3s
You - 2 counters
Me - Sphere, Attack [14]
You - 3 counters
Me - Attack [8]
You - 4 counters
Me - Attack [2]
You - 5 counters
Me - Attack lethal.
OTD I'm too slow.
Edit: Fun fact. Double Chrono kills on turn 7 as 2/2s (5 hits of 4 dmg), 3/3s (4 hits of 6 dmg), 4/4s (3 hits of 8 dmg), or 5/5s (2 hits of 10 dmg) so it doesn't actually matter what size they are unless there are enemy blockers or I need to cast Sphere by a certain turn.
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