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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #2561
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Snow-Covered Island, Quicksand, Blighted Agent, Unstable Mutation
    Evil Presence prevents Unstable Mutation and 2 vampires win the race against the single poison creature. WW

    6-0

    6. alphastryk: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vampire Lacerator, Vampire Lacerator
    If you use Evil Presence to prevent Unstable Mutation, then you can't prevent Quicksand. Does 1 Vampire race the poison creature?

    I think you're too slow OTD

    G - Quicksand
    A - Vampire # 1

    G - Island. Agent
    A - Evil Presence the Island (or lose to Unstable Mutation) and attack. [A=19, G=18]

    G - Hold up Quicksand. Attack [1 poison]
    A - Vampire #2. Attack and die to Quicksand. [A=18, G=18]

    Then it goes...
    2 poison
    16
    3 poison
    14
    4 poison
    12
    5 poison
    10
    6 poison
    8
    7 poison
    6
    8 poison
    4
    9 poison
    2
    10 poison

    Win for Gobbo

    OTP you would win this race.
    But I wonder if he has a viable line using Unstable Mutation as removal, since you play a creature first.

    A - Vampire #1
    G - Quicksand.

    A - If you ever attack, he can Quicksand you and then save Island+Unstable Mutation to kill the 2nd one and draw.
    If you Evil Presence the Quicksand, Agent+Mutation should race you.

    Draw?

    I also underestimated the power of Unstable Mutation as removal!

  2. #2562
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    If you use Evil Presence to prevent Unstable Mutation, then you can't prevent Quicksand. Does 1 Vampire race the poison creature?

    I think you're too slow OTD

    G - Quicksand
    A - Vampire # 1

    G - Island. Agent
    A - Evil Presence the Island (or lose to Unstable Mutation) and attack. [A=19, G=18]

    G - Hold up Quicksand. Attack [1 poison]
    A - Vampire #2. Attack and die to Quicksand. [A=18, G=18]

    Then it goes...
    2 poison
    16
    3 poison
    14
    4 poison
    12
    5 poison
    10
    6 poison
    8
    7 poison
    6
    8 poison
    4
    9 poison
    2
    10 poison

    Win for Gobbo

    OTP you would win this race.
    But I wonder if he has a viable line using Unstable Mutation as removal, since you play a creature first.

    A - Vampire #1
    G - Quicksand.

    A - If you ever attack, he can Quicksand you and then save Island+Unstable Mutation to kill the 2nd one and draw.
    If you Evil Presence the Quicksand, Agent+Mutation should race you.

    Draw?

    I also underestimated the power of Unstable Mutation as removal!
    I don't know why I keep switching Quicksand in my head to be -2/-1 instead of -1/-2.

    Everything you worked through makes sense to me, which would make this 1-4 instead of 6-0. Will update my results.

  3. #2563

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    me: silkster: Forest, Gladecover Scout, Ornithopter, Primal Cocoon

    1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Island, Caravan Escort, Azorius First-Wing
    See below. I think it's WD, 4 points

    2. FTW: Island, Sea's Claim, Slither Blade, Sigil of Sleep
    FTW explained it. I feel lucky to scrape a point out of this match. DL, 1 point

    3. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Quicksand, Disowned Ancestor, Funeral Charm
    We grow at the same rate, but mine can attack the turn it hits x power, so I'm half a turn faster there. 6 points

    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Snow-Covered Island, Quicksand, Blighted Agent, Unstable Mutation
    Unblockable turn 6 kill. None of my variants were ever going to beat that. 0 points

    5. H: Island, Force Spike, Force Spike, Zealous Guardian
    On the play, I get out ahead of the counters. On the draw, I can block with Ornithopter. WD, 4 points

    6. alphastryk: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vampire Lacerator, Vampire Lacerator
    Having a 0-drop to enchant does work against Evil Presence. WW, 6 points

    7. Moosedog: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vendetta, Vampire Lacerator
    Evil Presence and removal? That's like cheating. If only Vendetta took after Terror and not Dark Banishing. 0 points

    8. maxx!: Khalni Garden, Simic Growth Chamber, Floodbringer, Sprout Swarm
    My Ornithopter kills on turn 9 unopposed, 10 against one chump block. Floodbringer lands turn 3, then sprouts on turn 4, which can attack on turn 5. I trade with the first attacker, so the swarm hits me starting on turn 6. By turn 10, it does 15 damage, but the Floodbringer itself can get in for about 5 at that point. This is very close. Math below, but I'm not confident. I think it's WW, 6 points 3 points

    9. Tylert: Mountain, Crack the earth, Tremor, Ghitu lavarunner
    I make a flyer and don't mind sacking my Forest. WW, 6 points

    30 points if the math stands.

    If the points hold up, special thanks to Tylert for inspiring this deck. If it doesn't, then special curses to Tylert for inspiring this deck.
    Nevermind. The other deck two decks I've been planning on would have been much better. I hope it takes you 5 extra seconds to find your keys tomorrow morning!


    When Asthereal is on the play.
    T1: Escort, Ornithopter + Cocoon.
    T2: First-Wing, Escort gets in for 1. Scout. 19
    T3: Level 1, both attack. Scout hits back. 15-19
    T4: Level 2. If Escort attacks, I can block it and I'll get 7 attacks before you get 7 more. If I block First-Wing, Escort grows too big. 13-19
    T5: Level 3. Escort still can't attack, but First-Wing can. 11-19
    T6: Level 4. Escort can't attack. If I block First-Wing, I have 4 power. 11-15, 6-15, 6-10, 1-10, 1-6, block, and I'm 2 damage short. 9-19
    T7: Level 5 Escort still can't attack. If I block First-Wing, I have 5 power. 9-19, 9-14, 4-14, 4-9, block with Scout, and I'm one turn short. 7-19
    T8: An Escort attack still loses (always need to check). Blocking First-Wing, I have 6 power, which is 1 damage short of winning! 5-19
    T9: Blocking the First-Wing leaves me with 7 power, but I only get 2 attacks. 3-19
    T10: Blocking the First-Wing leaves me with 8 power, but I only get 2 attacks. 1-19
    You can now force the Ornithopter to stop growing, so I'll never be able to attack.
    I think this is WD for me.


    When maxx! is on the play.
    T1: Garden, plant.
    T2: Growth Chamber
    T3: Floodbringer, Garden, 2 plants.
    T4: Sprout, Floodbringer can attack because a 2/4 Ornithopter isn't going to be able to race. 19
    T5: Sprout trades Scout, make a new sprout, Floodbringer gets in for 1. 18
    T6: I have a 4/6 Ornithopter, so blocking the Floodbringer is winning for me if it attacks (I take 2+3+4+5 while attacking for 20). If I block the Sprout, I need 6 attacks, and you'll hit for 2,3,4,4,5, which is exactly enough, so Sprout gets in. Ornithopter comes in with 5 power. 17-15
    I go to 14, maxx! to 10,
    I go to 10, maxx! to 5,
    I go to 6 cause Floodbringer stays back, Floodie blocks.
    I go to 1, then I win. Maybe?

    Edit: Casting without buyback saddens me greatly.
    Last edited by silkster; 08-03-2020 at 05:34 AM.

  4. #2564

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    UnstableSmashmaster Results for Round "Unstable Agent"

    1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Island, Caravan Escort, Azorius First-Wing
    Agent smashes! 6-0

    2. FTW: Island, Sea's Claim, Slither Blade, Sigil of Sleep
    I have removal 6-0

    3. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Quicksand, Disowned Ancestor, Funeral Charm
    We both have removal 2-2

    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Snow-Covered Island, Quicksand, Blighted Agent, Unstable Mutation
    That's me, giving up on Goblins

    5. H: Island, Force Spike, Force Spike, Zealous Guardian
    We both have removal 2-2

    6. alphastryk: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vampire Lacerator, Vampire Lacerator
    FTW did the math 4-1

    7. Moosedog: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vendetta, Vampire Lacerator
    We both have removal 2-2

    8. maxx!: Khalni Garden, Simic Growth Chamber, Floodbringer, Sprout Swarm
    Agent smashes! 6-0

    9. Tylert: Mountain, Crack the earth, Tremor, Ghitu lavarunner
    We both have removal 2-2

    10. silkster: Forest, Gladecover Scout, Ornithopter, Primal Cocoon
    Agent smashes! 6-0

    Total: 36 points?

  5. #2565

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    my deck: Khalni Garden, Simic Growth Chamber, Floodbringer, Sprout Swarm

    1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Island, Caravan Escort, Azorius First-Wing
    this is gonna be complicated. early on i have to decide between making plants and preventing level up, or just going straight to saprolings. you have to race me because i have inevitability. this is gonna take some time to work out and i don't have that much time right now. will revisit later.
    edit: FTW did the math and it looks right to me. 3-3

    2. FTW: Island, Sea's Claim, Slither Blade, Sigil of Sleep
    when i'm OTP you can play your guy before i play my growth chamber, claim it, then i can still play floodbringer but you can enchant and attack before i untap, bouncing floodbringer every turn. there's no way for me to buyback sprout swarm. i could make 1 saproling without buyback, force you to bounce it, and get to untap with floodbringer and fix my bounceland, but without sprout swarm i can't win through a bounce every turn. OTD is worse. 0-6

    3. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Quicksand, Disowned Ancestor, Funeral Charm
    i can hold floodbringer for funeral charm and start swarming with just the plant tokens and lands. i'm pretty sure there's no way ancestor ever beats that. if you charm a plant token instead then i can just play the floodbringer. 6-0

    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Snow-Covered Island, Quicksand, Blighted Agent, Unstable Mutation
    yeesh. that's not a goblin! you're way too fast for me and i can't interact with your guy. 0-6

    5. H: Island, Force Spike, Force Spike, Zealous Guardian
    i can wait until all my lands are in play untapped before playing floodbringer to pay for a force spike. after that, i can bounce khalni garden every turn to make a blocker while i attack in the air with floodbringer. 6-0

    6. alphastryk: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vampire Lacerator, Vampire Lacerator
    evil presence means i can make a 1/1 and a 0/1 at best, which won't beat lacerator. 0-6

    7. Moosedog: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vendetta, Vampire Lacerator
    evil presence means i can make a 1/1 and a 0/1 at best, which won't beat lacerator. 0-6

    8. maxx!: Khalni Garden, Simic Growth Chamber, Floodbringer, Sprout Swarm
    this is me : ]

    9. Tylert: Mountain, Crack the earth, Tremor, Ghitu lavarunner
    this is a little tricky and there are a lot of lines. OTP i start with khalni garden. crack the earth just makes me sac a token and then you can't do anything. you can tremor the token, then i play growth chamber and you crack the earth, but then i can swarm once without buyback just from replaying khalni garden, then beat you with 1 saproling. if you play lavarunner first, then your second turn just kills a plant token no matter which spell you play, and then i can play floodbringer and khalni garden again. i have another plant token now in case you crack the earth, and i can bounce my khalni garden again to get enough to start swarming. you can try to sandbag tremor for as long as possible, but i can rebuild as long as floodbringer is alive, and you can't play tremor and crack the earth on the same turn to force me to sac a non-token. i don't think you can beat the swarm, so that's a win OTP.

    OTD is tougher. you make your lavarunner, then i make a land and plant token. you can tremor the token, and then my only play is growth chamber, which lets you crack the earth. i can end up with a saproling and a 0/1 plant, but that's not enough to beat your 2/2.
    3-3

    10. silkster: Forest, Gladecover Scout, Ornithopter, Primal Cocoon
    i think you need to use ornithopter, since i can make a totally absurd number of ground blockers. deciding when to pop the cocoon is tricky. i can also chump ornithopter once with floodbringer. this one is hard. i just saw your post with the math and it looks close enough that i want to take some more time to look for lines and make sure i cover everything.
    edit: FTW did the math (again) for a 5 power ornithopter and it looks like i squeak out a win OTP. 4 power should kill me on the same turn (5 hits of 4 vs 4 hits of 5), but that just means ornithopter is tapped an extra turn so thatís no better. 3 power kills slower, as does 6+, so i think i pick up a win OTP. 3-3

    3+0+6+0+6+0+0+3+3 = 21

    definitely went too cute this round :/
    Last edited by maxx!; 08-02-2020 at 03:35 AM.

  6. #2566
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by maxx! View Post
    my deck: Khalni Garden, Simic Growth Chamber, Floodbringer, Sprout Swarm

    1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Island, Caravan Escort, Azorius First-Wing
    this is gonna be complicated. early on i have to decide between making plants and preventing level up, or just going straight to saprolings. you have to race me because i have inevitability. this is gonna take some time to work out and i don't have that much time right now. will revisit later. ?-?
    Asthereal warned us he'll be really busy so I'll give this a crack.

    Asthereal's part is easy. He cannot win the long game, so he always races with the flyer and tries to level up the Caravan. His decisions are simple: whether to attack or block with Caravan Escort.

    Maxx has most of the tough decisions: whether to disrupt mana to keep Caravan off Level 5 and make plants (defense), or just make as many saprolings as possible (offense). Maxx also has to decide when to attack and when to use creatures to convoke.

    Because Maxx's lines are more complex, instead of considering everything, I just found a winning line for him (others may be possible) and tried to see if Asthereal could beat it.


    Maxx OTP
    T1
    M - Garden. 1 Plant
    A - Plains. Escort

    T2
    M - Growth Chamber, returning Garden.
    A - Island. Azorius First-Wing, attack with 1/1 [M=19]

    T3
    M - Floodbringer. Garden. Plant #2
    A - Level 1 = 2/2. Attack for 4. [M=15]

    Even OTP you're too slow to keep him off Level 1. Levels 1-4 are the same, so there's no reason to stall his mana until at least Level 4.

    T4
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=19]
    A - Level 2. Attack for 4 [M=11]. Attacking is still favorable because A deals more damage than he would block.
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 1 Sap.

    T5
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=18]
    A - Level 3. Caravan Escort would get ambushed by 2 Saprolings, so just attack with First-Wing. [M=9].
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 2 Saps.

    T6
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=17]
    A - Level 4. Attack with First-Wing [M=7]
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 3 Saps.

    This is the decision point. Do you stop him from reaching Level 5, or just chump him with Plants and try to make more Saprolings?
    I think you have enough tokens that Caravan attacking is irrelevant, but your life is low so you need to hurry up the race.
    You need offense more than defense


    If you just make more Saprolings
    T7
    M - Don't attack, so you can convoke Floodbringer for the double Sprout Swarm.
    A - Level 5 = 5/5. Attack with both, Caravan gets chumped by a Plant [M=5]
    Before damage, tap 3 mana + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 4 Saps. Tap 4 Saps + Floodbringer to Sprout Swarm again. 5 Saps.

    T8
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=16] (you have enough to double Swarm without him now)
    A - Attack with both. Caravan gets chumped by a Plant [M=3]
    Before damage, tap 5 Saps to Sprout Swarm. 6th Sap. Tap 3 mana + new sap + last plant to Sprout Swarm again. 7 Saps.

    T9
    M - Attack with Floodbringer and 7 Saps. [A=8] Bounce Garden and replay it tapped. 1 Plant (to block Caravan)
    A - Attack with First-Wing (need Caravan to block, otherwise M has lethal). [M=1]

    T10
    M - No lethal anymore. Leave Floodbringer to chump. Attack with 7 Saps. 1 gets blocked. 6 Saps. [A=2]
    M has 2 blockers (Floodbringer + Plant) and can Sprout Swarm one more time after blockers.
    A has no good lines. Attacking won't be lethal. Leaving both as blockers won't be enough.

    T11
    M - Attack for at least 7. A can't survive. M wins.


    What if Caravan never attacks and stays back to block Saprolings?
    T7
    M - Don't attack, so you can convoke Floodbringer for the double Sprout Swarm.
    A - Level 5 = 5/5. Attack with First-Wing only [M=5]
    EOT tap 3 mana + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 4 Saps. Tap 4 Saps + Floodbringer to Sprout Swarm again. 5 Saps.

    T8
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=16] (you have enough to double Swarm without him now)
    A - Attack with First-Wing only [M=3]
    EOT tap 5 Saps to Sprout Swarm. 6th Sap. Tap 3 mana + 2 plants to Sprout Swarm again. 7 Saps.

    T9
    M - Attack with Floodbringer and 7 Saps. 1 gets blocked by Caravan. 6 saps [A=9]
    A - Attack with First-Wing. [M=1]
    EOT tap 3 mana + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 7 Saps.

    T10
    M - Leave Floodbringer to chump. Attack with 7 Saps. 1 gets blocked. 6 Saps. [A=3]
    A - No lethal attacks possible. Leave both to block?
    EOT tap 3 mana + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 7 Saps. Then Tap Floodbringer + new sap to Sprout Swarm without buyback. 8 Saps.

    T11
    M - Attack for at least 8. A can't survive. M wins

    It doesn't really make a difference. M has overkill either way.


    If Caravan Escort trades with Saprolings earlier to slow down the Saproling production
    T5
    A - Level 3. Attack with 2/2 Caravan and First-Wing. M makes 2nd Saproling and trades. [M=9]

    T6
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=17]
    A - Attack with First-Wing [M=7]
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 1 Sap.

    With Caravan Escort dead, all Saprolings can attack.

    T7
    M - Attack with Floodbringer + 1 Saproling [A=15]
    A - Attack with First-Wing [M=5]
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 2 Sap.

    T8
    M - Attack with Floodbringer + 2 Saproling [A=12]
    A - Attack with First-Wing [M=3]
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 3 Sap.

    T9
    M - Attack with Floodbringer + 3 Saproling [A=8]
    A - Attack with First-Wing [M=1]
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 4 Sap.

    T10
    M - Attack with 4 Saproling [A=4]. Leave Floodbringer to chump.
    A - No lethal attacks possible. Defense?
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 5th Sap. Tap new Sap + Floodbringer to Sprout Swarm without buyback. 6 saps.

    T11
    M - Attack with 6 Saprolings. A can't survive. M wins.


    As long as M plays to maximize Saproling tokens, I don't see a way A can beat it.
    Maxx should win OTP.

    I haven't worked through OTD yet.

  7. #2567
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Shamelessly borrowing a deck. And I realize Iím part of the problem, but I cannot wait until evil presence and seaís claim get banned.

    1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Island, Caravan Escort, Azorius First-Wing
    Agree 6-0.

    2. FTW: Island, Sea's Claim, Slither Blade, Sigil of Sleep
    Agree Ė draw. 2-2

    3. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Quicksand, Disowned Ancestor, Funeral Charm
    agree 0-6

    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Snow-Covered Island, Quicksand, Blighted Agent, Unstable Mutation
    Agree 2-2.

    5. H: Island, Force Spike, Force Spike, Zealous Guardian
    OTP Iíll drop lacerator and win, OTD if you play guardian EOT Iíll vendetta while youíre tapped out. So I think we draw?
    4-1.

    6. alphastryk: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vampire Lacerator, Vampire Lacerator
    You clearly deserve the Ws ha. 0-6

    7. Moosedog: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vendetta, Vampire Lacerator
    ME

    8. maxx!: Khalni Garden, Simic Growth Chamber, Floodbringer, Sprout Swarm
    Nice List! Agree 6-0.

    9. Tylert: Mountain, Crack the earth, Tremor, Ghitu lavarunner
    Iíll presence the mountain leaving you with a Ĺ vs my 2/2. 6-0.

    10. silkster: Forest, Gladecover Scout, Ornithopter, Primal Cocoon
    Agree 6-0.

    TOTAL: 34 points !

  8. #2568

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Asthereal warned us he'll be really busy so I'll give this a crack.
    i just wanna say that i sincerely appreciate this. i'm having a busy week and i picked a deck with way too many decisions

  9. #2569
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    H: Island, Force Spike, Force Spike, Zealous Guardian

    1. Asthereal (TO): Plains, Island, Caravan Escort, Azorius First-Wing
    Can't beat a 1-drop on two lands. 0-6

    2. FTW: Island, Sea's Claim, Slither Blade, Sigil of Sleep
    Force Spike is terrible on the Draw. 3-3

    3. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Quicksand, Disowned Ancestor, Funeral Charm
    I can't win through Quicksand in any case. 0-6

    4. GoblinSmashmaster: Snow-Covered Island, Quicksand, Blighted Agent, Unstable Mutation
    Can't beat Quicksand, but no Angent through Spike. 2-2

    5. H: Bye, myself.

    6. alphastryk: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vampire Lacerator, Vampire Lacerator
    Can't stop all three things in any case. 0-6

    7. Moosedog: Swamp, Evil Presence, Vendetta, Vampire Lacerator
    I certainly lose on the Draw. On the Play, we draw, because you can kill my threat, but I can counter yours. 1-4

    8. maxx!: Khalni Garden, Simic Growth Chamber, Floodbringer, Sprout Swarm
    Too much mana here. 0-6

    9. Tylert: Mountain, Crack the earth, Tremor, Ghitu lavarunner
    Tremor being a Sorcery really matters here, I think. So, on the Play, I can play Guardian at the end of your turn. If you had cast Lavarunner, I counter it. If you cast Crack, I cast Guardian in response, sac the land, then you lose since you'd have to sac your only means to play the Lavarunner. So, I don't see a way for you to win or draw when I am on the Play.

    When I am on the draw, I just lose. 3-3

    10. silkster: Forest, Gladecover Scout, Ornithopter, Primal Cocoon
    I think we draw when I am on the Play, since I can counter both Scout and Cocoon, but the Ornithopter stops me. On the Draw, I lose. 1-4

    Looks like 10. I thought maybe more people would play Empty, but I was horribly wrong. Told you guys I was luck those other rounds,
    Last edited by H; 07-31-2020 at 05:52 AM.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  10. #2570
    Tundra Player
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Moosedog View Post
    ... I realize Iím part of the problem, but I cannot wait until evil presence and seaís claim get banned.
    I keep playing them hoping they're good enough to get banned and it never quite works! Maybe the reality is that everyone is playing around them so much they don't work and its actually time to play the decks that lose to them. hmmmm

  11. #2571
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    I keep playing them hoping they're good enough to get banned and it never quite works! Maybe the reality is that everyone is playing around them so much they don't work and its actually time to play the decks that lose to them. hmmmm
    Yeah me too. My deck idea came from a thought experiment on how to get Sea's Claim banned with Viscerid Deepwalker out, and the lack of good blue threats.

    It would have worked last week, if I didn't change my submission last minute. It would have scored about 36 points. So I tried it again.. into Protection from Enchantments and blue removal that Sea's Claim can't stop... (Unstable Mutation lol).

    There are some really interesting decks that open up once the LD is out. I hope we get to them.

  12. #2572

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    That's when we start playing Lush Growth and Raze.

  13. #2573
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by maxx! View Post
    i just wanna say that i sincerely appreciate this. i'm having a busy week and i picked a deck with way too many decisions
    You're welcome. You had a really creative deck!

    OTD I think Asthereal wins. He gets an extra attack with both 2/2s before you can make the 2nd Saproling. Between that and going second, you're 2 turns slower in the race and probably can't make enough Saprolings fast enough.

    Maxx OTD
    T1
    A - Plains. Escort
    M - Garden. 1 Plant

    T2
    A - Island. Azorius First-Wing, attack with 1/1 [M=19]
    M - Growth Chamber, returning Garden.

    T3
    A - Level 1 = 2/2. Attack for 4. [M=15]
    M - Floodbringer. Garden. Plant #2

    T4
    A - Level 2. Attack for 4 [M=11].
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=19]

    T5
    A - Level 3. Attack with both for 4. [M=7].
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 1 Sap.
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=18]

    T6
    A - Level 4. Attack with First-Wing only [M=5]. Escort could be ambushed by 2 Saprolings.
    EOT tap lands + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 2 Saps.
    M - Attack with Floodbringer. [A=17]

    This is the decision point. You'd have to stop Escort from hitting Level 5 now, but if you do there's no way you can make enough Saprolings to race. You're at 5 vs 17 life! You need Saprolings.

    T7
    A - Level 5 = 5/5. Attack with both. Caravan gets chumped by a Plant [M=3]
    Before damage, tap 3 mana + 2 Plants to Sprout Swarm. 3 Saps.
    M - Attack with Floodbringer + 2 Saps. [A=14]

    T8
    A - Attack with both. Caravan gets chumped by the last Plant [M=1]
    Before damage, tap lands + Plant + untapped Sap to Sprout Swarm. 4 saps.
    M - Attack with 4 Saps. [A=10] Floodbringer must stay back to chump. Bounce Garden, replay it and make 1 Plant.

    T9
    A - Attack with both. First-Wing gets chumped by Floodbringer, Caravan gets chumped by the Plant.
    Before damage, tap Plant + Floodbringer to Sprout Swarm without buyback. 5 saps.
    M - Attack with 5 saps [A=5]

    T10
    A - Attack with First-Wing. You can't block flying. [M=-1]

    I don't see another line that lets you assemble lethal damage by turn 9. Taking an extra 2 damage on turn 5 costs you a turn.

    If my math is right, this should be WL 3-3.

  14. #2574

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    H: Island, Force Spike, Force Spike, Zealous Guardian

    10. silkster: Forest, Gladecover Scout, Ornithopter, Primal Cocoon
    I think we draw when I am on the Play, since I can counter both Scout and Cocoon, but the Ornithopter stops me. On the Draw, I lose. 3-3
    I agree with your reasoning, but the conclusion should be 1-4 for you (or 4-1 for me).

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Yeah me too. My deck idea came from a thought experiment on how to get Sea's Claim banned with Viscerid Deepwalker out, and the lack of good blue threats.

    It would have worked last week, if I didn't change my submission last minute. It would have scored about 36 points. So I tried it again.. into Protection from Enchantments and blue removal that Sea's Claim can't stop... (Unstable Mutation lol).

    There are some really interesting decks that open up once the LD is out. I hope we get to them.
    The deck I almost played two weeks ago before I found Seal of Fire would have gotten 30 points (instead of 36), and I almost played it this week before I found Primal Cocoon, and I would have gotten 44 (instead of 33). The meta is so hard to predict. Last week I chose the best of 4 lists I was looking at. This week I chose the worst of 4 lists I was looking at. I'm constantly amazed at how varied it is, with around half of the decks each week being stuff I'd never think of. I've even specifically looked at each of Sprout Swarm, Kalni Garden, and the land bouncing Soratami before.

    Getting past the LD and the first few LD-free decks is why I was hoping for the full 12 rounds of a growing ban list.

  15. #2575
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    me: silkster: Forest, Gladecover Scout, Ornithopter, Primal Cocoon

    When maxx! is on the play.
    T1: Garden, plant.
    T2: Growth Chamber
    T3: Floodbringer, Garden, 2 plants.
    T4: Sprout, Floodbringer can attack because a 2/4 Ornithopter isn't going to be able to race. 19
    T5: Sprout trades Scout, make a new sprout, Floodbringer gets in for 1. 18
    T6: I have a 4/6 Ornithopter, so blocking the Floodbringer is winning for me if it attacks (I take 2+3+4+5 while attacking for 20). If I block the Sprout, I need 6 attacks, and you'll hit for 2,3,4,4,5, which is exactly enough, so Sprout gets in. Ornithopter comes in with 5 power. 17-15
    I go to 14, maxx! to 10,
    I go to 10, maxx! to 5,
    I go to 6 cause Floodbringer stays back, Floodie blocks.
    I go to 1, then I win. Maybe?
    maxx! would win that line OTP.

    On the last turn he can Sprout again (without buyback) to make a 6th Saproling and kill you. If you keep Ornithopter on defense, he has Floodbringer to attack so he gets through either way.

    I haven't looked if there are better times to pop the Cocoon, but if you follow your line...

    T7: Floodbringer + 2 Saps attack. S=14 / Ornithopter attacks M=10. EOT Sprout for 3rd Sap.
    T8: Floodrbinger + 3 Saps attack. S=10 / Ornithopter attacks M=5. EOT Sprout for 4th Sap.
    T9: 4 Saps attack. S=6 / Ornithopter gets chumped by Floodbringer. Before damage, tap 3 mana + 2 Plants to Sprout. Then tap that token + Floodbringer to Sprout again without buyback. 6 Saps.
    T10: 6 Saps attack S=0


    OTD you would win that same race

    WL 3-3?

  16. #2576
    Hymn-Slinging Mod
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    I agree with your reasoning, but the conclusion should be 1-4 for you (or 4-1 for me).
    Yeah, just a brain fart there by me.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  17. #2577
    Site Contributor

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Thanks FTW for helping maxx! and me out with the math!
    I tried a few things as well but can't really find anything better, so 3-3 it is.
    Which leads to these...

    STANDINGS FOR ROUND 5:
    1. GoblinSmashmaster: 36 - 4
    2. Moosedog: 32 - 3,6
    3. Wrath of Pie: 31 - 3,4
    4. silkster: 30 - 3,3
    5. alphastryk: 28 - 3,1
    6. FTW: 25 - 2,8
    7. Asthereal (TO): 24 - 2,7
    8. maxx!: 21 - 2,3
    9. Tylert: 12 - 1,3
    10. H: 10 - 1,1

    And this means the following cards get the axe:
    Blighted Agent
    Disowned Ancestor
    Evil Presence
    Funeral Charm
    Quicksand
    Unstable Mutation
    Vampire Lacerator
    Vendetta

    Also, we're running a tight ship in the season standings:
    1. FTW: 18
    2. H: 17
    3. silkster: 14,5
    4. maxx!: 14,4
    5. Asthereal (TO): 12,7
    6. Moosedog: 12,5
    7. Tylert: 12,3
    8. Wrath of Pie: 12
    9. alphastryk: 11,7
    10. GoblinSmashmaster: 11,3

    FTW takes the lead, but H is still close behind. After these clear leaders, we have a pack that I expect will continue to shuffle in coming rounds.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  18. #2578
    Site Contributor

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    ROUND 6 of SEASON 7: PAUPER BANNATHON has started.

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 6, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 5th of August, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Terror, Dauthi Slayer.
    So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S07R06 in the topic.
    Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.

    Happy deck designing everybody!
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  19. #2579

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Evil Presence is no longer a worry.

    One down, three to go.

  20. #2580

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You're welcome. You had a really creative deck!
    thanks. if only i got point for creativity instead of wins

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