You both have the same result, but I'm not seeing how.
Feed the Swarm kills the first Evangel. Then Wrath can't activate the 2nd Evangel. Treetop Village doesn't work because it costs 1G to activate and then Wrath needs to double-tap the Treetop both for 1 mana and as a creature to activate Selesnya Evangel. The 2nd Evangel only works if Wrath can make a token with the first one before it dies. Otherwise it's just Squire.
W - Village tapped
R - Forest
W - Sanctuary tapped
R - Farm tapped
W - Village tapped. Evangel #1.
R - Forest. Feed the Swarm, killing Evangel #1
W - Evangel #2
R - Squirrel Nest on Forest
W - Can't create any tokens.
R - Eventually create enough 1/1s to win through a 1/2 and 3/3 trample
Edit: Tylert should beat Wrath for the same reason
Wretched Banquet on Selesnya Evangel#1 should be enough to shut off the token engine and win, unless I'm missing some other line.
Results!
1. Asthereal (TO): Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
Counterspell beats the Channel + rebuy plan, as I have to actually use Woodlot to fight through, unlike discard. LL
0-6
2. Karshtakavaar: Keldon Megaliths, Gathan Raiders, Bloodmad Vampire, Boros Garrison
As far as I can tell, I'm always able to trample my way through your creatures, and the Eldrazi kills quick. WW
6-0
3. dte: Azorius Chancery, Sunscorched Desert, Reality Acid, Tel-Jilad Stylus
This is the kind of really cool deck I would never think of. LL
0-6
4. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Selesnya Sanctuary, Selesnya Evangel, Selesnya Evangel
Eldrazi kills too fast to get the tokens going. WW
6-0
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Nantuko Tracer
This sure looks familiar! DD
2-2
6. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Forest, Feed the Swarm, Squirrel Nest
A removal spell, similar to a counterspell in that it forces me to use mana so Tracer doesn't rebuy all the pieces needed. LL
0-6
7. alphastryk: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Nantuko Tracer
This is me
8. H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
Tracer beast Blackmail as long as I hide my land. WW
6-0
9. maxx!: Pendelhaven, Lush Growth, Thornscape Apprentice, Orochi Leafcaller
I can't beat Lush Growth as it turns out. LL
0-6
10. silkster: Swamp, Ostracize, Typhoid Rats, Shrieking Affliction
A discard spell and a Deathtoucher does it. LL
0-6
11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
I should always be able to play out Tracer first to thwart Banquet, and the Eldrazi kills fast afterwards. WW
6-0
12. FTW: Swamp, Shrieking Affliction, Ostracize, Typhoid Rats
This again! LL
0-6
Total: 26 points.
Losing Khalni Garden really hurts this strategy, unfortunately.
Since he put it as a tie I assumed that treetop was G to activate instead of 1G. I'll fixmypost.
That makes sense that you were looking at O-rings. If I recall correctly, there are actually very few at common, like only O-ring, which is why my Fountain of Cho deck ended up with double O-ring, while I would have liked some variation to cover more bases.
I'm glad I asked the silly useless question about karoos, because I missed the beauty of the Lab Man deck making every color.
When I see most of the decks you've submitted, I think to myself, "man, if I had thought of that, I would have immediately gone with that". I guess it makes sense that alternatives you have in mind are probably also very good. Like, I thought this the Bauble+Mistveil in round 2. But if you had Stylus+Acid on your list back then, that might have been a tough choice.
I read this as "This again! LOL".
I actually did a double take and rechecked the ban list when I saw Selesneya Sanctuary, because I remember Khalni Garden being banned and wondered how it got banned without the GW land (it used the UG land with Floodbringer and Sprout Swarm).
Still a few undecided matches, but I think I figured them out.
H vs Tylert: WW for Tylert, who plays T1 Chrono regardless of play/draw, and has a 4/4 by turn 4, then just waits to attack with a 20/20 (or 6/6 for maximum efficiency). This one was easy, so I put it in.
Karshtakavaar vs Wrath of Pie: I think this is WD for Wrath of Pie
The critical moment happens on turn 7. In the first 6 turns, each player is goldfishing.
Karshtakavaar goes: Megaliths, Garrison, Megaliths, Raiders, Vampire + hit for 5, kill a Saproling + hit for 5.
Wrath of Pie goes: Treetop, Sanctuary, Treetop + Evangel, Evangel2 + saproling, 2 saprolings, potential to make 2 saprolings.
Karshtakavaar on the play: the next attack would put Wrath at 5, which is too low and will be finished by the Megaliths too quickly. To get 5 power, Wrath needs to block with Village + Evangel + 2 Saprolings (cause one would die to Megaliths). Karshtakavaar would kill Evangel+Saps, then the vampire can block Treetop, and Megaliths race the 1/2 because the life totals are 20 to 10. This means that Wrath is in chump block territory. I think K needs to kill a Saproling ever turn to keep them in check along with the chump blocks. Wrath does not have a single saproling to spare, or else the Vampire would get to attack. This leads to a draw.
Wrath on the play: With 2 more Saprolings in play, Wrath can block with TT + 3 Saps, and 10 life is enough for the Saprolings to run away with the game.
Kashtakavaar vs Tylert: WW for Karshtakavaar.
With T on the play, T can generally block with an x/x on turn x. To live against the Raiders, Chronomaton needs to be 7/7. Tylert also needs to spend a turn casting the Banquet. So K gets 8 turns unimpeded, with the Raiders coming down on turn 4 and killing on turn 8. If Banquet is cast on Raiders right away, then they morph up to counter it because the Chronomaton is only 4/4. If the Banquet waits for a turn, then it will kill the Vampire anyway. T can't wait on Chronomaton because then the Megaliths would just take over and stop the Chronomaton from ever growing.
I welcome corrections, especially for KvW.
Glad that I didn't look then :)
On the 5 colors, I screwed myself a bit out of the possibility of a solid UR combo deck I didn't figure out yet then. On lists "aesthetics", my favourite so far is Reeplcheep's delirium deck of Vault of Whispers, Orzhov Basilica, Peppersmoke, Extricator of Sin. Too bad it couldn't play tarfire!
But the mistveil deck was no brainer compared to the stylus one: It resisted discard (but not double discard unfortunately, so it only lost to cabal therapy), Empty, FoW and strip mine, while the stylus deck could not deal with any of those. Stylus would have performed very poorly last week!
I believe Karshtakavaar has another option: not pay the vampire madness cost, to kill a saproling one turn earlier, which means Ev2 has to be tapped to make a token, and K can kill a token a turn stopping the machine in its tracks:
K OTP
T1 Meg, TV
T2 duals
T3 Meg, Ev1 + TV
T4 Morph, Ev2 + token
T5 flip morph + kill token, attack for 5
WoP can only make a token a turn, while K kills one + attacks with a 5/5 --> K wins
Even with WoP OTP it is tight:
WoP OTP
T1 TV, Meg
T2 duals
T3 Ev1 +TV, Meg
T4 Ev2 + token, morph
T5 2 tokens (3). Here making a vampire or discarding it + killing a saproling is the same. so kill a token (2), attack (W15)
T6 2 tokens (4), kill a token (3), attack (W10)
Then it is a race between having enough tokens to kill the 5/5 and kill within 5 turns (Meg) or not.
If WoP do not chump:
T7 2 tokens (5), kill a token (4), attack (W5)
T8 2 tokens (6), kill a token (5), attack (W5)
T9 1 tokens (1), damage (W4)
T10 2 tokens (3), damage (W3)
T10 2 tokens (5) + attack for 2 (K18), damage (W2)
T11 activate TV, attack (K8), damage (W1)
WoP wins
So I'll go for 3-3 there?
1. Asthereal (TO): Saprazzan Skerry, Force of Will, Infiltrator il-Kor, Infiltrator il-Kor
2. Karshtakavaar: Keldon Megaliths, Gathan Raiders, Bloodmad Vampire, Boros Garrison
3. dte: Azorius Chancery, Sunscorched Desert, Reality Acid, Tel-Jilad Stylus
4. Wrath of Pie: Treetop Village, Selesnya Sanctuary, Selesnya Evangel, Selesnya Evangel
5. GoblinSmashmaster: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Nantuko Tracer
6. Reeplcheep: Golgari Rot-Farm, Forest, Feed the Swarm, Squirrel Nest
7. alphastryk: Hickory Woodlot, Channel, Eldrazi Devastator, Nantuko Tracer
8. H: Swamp, Swamp, Blackmail, Porcelain Legionnaire
9. maxx!: Pendelhaven, Lush Growth, Thornscape Apprentice, Orochi Leafcaller
10. silkster: Swamp, Ostracize, Typhoid Rats, Shrieking Affliction
11. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
12. FTW: Swamp, Shrieking Affliction, Ostracize, Typhoid Rats
1. Asthereal: FoW is useless here. OTP, I grow up to 4 can kill 1 looter and race the other. OTD, I can't grow to 4 and will loose the race. 3-3 --> 3
OTP: T1 = Swamp Chrono. Skerry.
T2 = C1. Suspend Kor (K1 2).
T3 = C3. Suspend Kor (K2 2, K1 1).
T4 = C4. Att (M17 Y20) (K2 1).
T5 = Att (M17 Y16) Banquet. Att (M14 Y16).
T6 = Att (M14 Y12). Att (M11 Y12)
T7 = Att (M11 Y8). Att (M8 Y8).
T8 = ATT (M8 Y4). Att (M5 Y4).
T9 = Win.
OTD: T1 = Skerry. Swamp Chrono.
T2 = Suspend Kor (K1 2). C1.
T3 = (K1 1), Suspend Kor (K2 2). C2.
T4 = (K2 1), Att (M17, Y20). Banquet, att (Y17, M17)
T5 = Att (M14, Y17). Can't race. Loss.
2. Karshtakavaar: just because your name is awfull to pronouce, I should be WW here. but you happen to have a good deck so LL (See analysis by other guys). 0-6 --> 3
3. Dte: You can kill chrono twice and win with desert after. 0-6 --> 3.
4. Wrath of Pie: I can kill One evangel with banquet before you can make a single token. Then you have no mana to activate both treetop and evangel. 6-0 --> 9
5. GoblinSmashMaster: 2 bodies. If you play tracer first I can't win. 0-6 --> 9.
6. Reeplcheep: I guess You can wait to have two tokens before chumping and then you can chip at my life total or grow a huge army to kill me. 0-6 --> 9
7. Alphastryk: 2 bodies. If you play tracer first I can't win. 0-6 --> 9.
8. H: I race this, like last time. 6-0 --> 15.
9. maxx!!: If you lead with lush growth OTP and OTD, you can then play both guys and tap chronomaton forever. I don't have time to kill you during the 3 turns where you are playing your guys. So i don't play anything and we draw 2-2 --> 18
10. Silkster: Math explained in your analysis. 3-3 --> 21.
11. Me.
12. FTW: Math explained in your analysis. 3-3 --> 24.
Total 24. Won't get this banned this season. Everyone is teching against it :)
Last edited by Tylert; 11-06-2020 at 11:09 AM.
In hindsight Mishra's Factory would have been the better choice.
Maybe that could have been the occasion for Skyclave Basilica to shine.
It would mostly do similar to factory, and against Karshtakavaar the +2 life it would likely have been enough OTD.
silkster has a different result above (LL 0-6 for you).
T vs K OTP
T1 Chrono / Tapped Megaliths
T2 2/2 / Tapped Garrison
T3 3/3 / Tapped Megaliths
T4 4/4 / 2/2 Morph
T5 5/5 / Unmorph Raiders as 5/5 & pay 1R to Madness 4/1 Vampire, attack for 5 [T=15]
T6 Banquet the Vampire, Attack for 5 back / Raiders attack for 5 [K=15, T=10]
T7 EOT 6/6 / Raiders attack and you still can't block due to Megaliths, then Megaliths ping [K=15, T=4]
T8 Now Raiders can't attack because you grow into 7/7, but Megaliths pings you [K=15, T=3]
T9 EOT 8/8, Megalith pings you [K=15, T=2]
You won't reach 15/15 before the Megaliths gets you
Looks like LL to me.
If you try to Banquet the 2/2 morph, he unmorphs in response (without Madness) into 5/5 and Banquet is countered, but he loses the Vampire.
If you wait till after he unmorphs into 5/5 Raiders, he also has the 4/1 Vampire so Banquet has to hit that. Either way you spend a turn removing the Vampire.
Then you have to be 7/7 to survive blocking the 5/5 Raiders because of Keldon Megaliths and that ends up being too slow.
The fun play here is to kill Swamp first then Chrono once (can't even Unearth it). dte's deck is very good!
Who knew the answer was to run a 3rd Squire in the uncommon slot? That one really makes the original Squire look bad.
This is the last outstanding result, so I looked this over.
If K plays that line, W can't ever get enough tokens to win. But W can still draw vs the 5/5.
On Wrath's turn 4, he holds back to make the token on K's turn instead of on his own turn. Because Wrath could make it on end step or as a blocker, that forces K to commit to unmorphing Raiders without madness ahead of time and attacking with a 5/5 leaving mana open to respond.
Wrath can stop the 5/5 using the following line:
Tap Selesnya Sanctuary for GW
Activate Treetop Village into 3/3
Gang block the 5/5 with 3/3 + 1/2 + 1/2
Before damage, tap Treetop for G and tap both Evangels to make 1 Saproling
This line would kill the 5/5 and leave Wrath with remaining creatures. Even if it's just a 1/2 left (kill 3/3 and 1/2 with combat damage & ping token), the surviving 1/2 gets first damage in and races Megaliths, winning. Therefore K can't attack the 5/5 into that board. Instead he stares and just pings the EOT Saproling each turn. Draw.
Looks like WD 4-1 for WrathofPie
Edit: Nevermind, with dte's shorthand I missed some details
On that turn Wrath just cast Evangel #2 so the Sanctuary's already tapped and Treetop can't block, but K still has to kill the Saproling instead of pay Madness.
By the next turn, Wrath can do the above block with Treetop to kill the 5/5 but he's at 15 life so the surviving 1/2 can't race the Megaliths and Wrath can't prevent a loss.
WL 3-3
Last edited by FTW; 11-06-2020 at 02:00 PM.
Ah, that's a very good point.
I'm glad other people are looking this over. This is getting so complicated. Really makes you appreciate the simplicity of "does my Reality Acid eat all of your permanents? Check one: []yes, []no". (I suppose there's also the possibility that the one damage just races anyway, but that would ruin the joke by making it too long.)
I see the edit and am on board with it. I think we should go with that, at least until more lines might be discovered.
Can someone check my match vs Karshtakavaar... I am wondering if maybe he can hold a draw vs me even when I have 3 tokens OTP.
R vs K OTP
T1: Forest / Tapped Megaliths
T2: Rot Farm / Garrison
T3: Forest. Squirrel Nest on Forest / Tapped Megaliths
T4: 1 Squirrel / 2/2 morph
T5: Feed the morph, lose 0 life. 2 squirrels, 1 attacks. / Hardcast Vampire [R=20, K=19]
T6: 3 squirrels, 1 attacks / Megaliths is now online [R=20, K=18]
Turn 6 is where the decisions start.
If only 1 squirrel is on defense, Megaliths kills it and Vampire gets through and grows to 5/2 (which makes it much harder to stop).
As long as 2 squirrels stay back, Megaliths can't force the Vampire through so K holds.
Can Reeplcheep win though?
On T7 Reeplcheep will make a 4th squirrel.
Edit: If 2 squirrels attack and 2 stay on defense, R can force through at least 1 damage. However K could choose to ping an untapped squirrel instead, then untap and ping the other untapped squirrel letting the Vampire get through. That eventually leads to a worse position for R (4 squirrels vs untapped 5/2 & Megaliths).
To stop Vampire, R needs 3 squirrels on defense. But if 3 squirrels stay back and only 1 attacks, K can instead ping the attacker and take 0 damage. The same thing happens next turn. R can't deal any damage.
OTD R has only 3 squirrels instead of 4, but can still leave all 3 on defense to stop the Vampire.
DD 2-2
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