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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #3221
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    My apologies to the Europeans who use decimals and commas backwards from how I do it. I originally copied and pasted the round results into my own spreadsheet to thinker with, but my spreadsheet wasn't properly interpreting the commas as decimal points, so I gave up trying to reformat it and just did it on the official document. So I sort of your formatting pain.
    Yeah, my Google Drive is in Dutch, so it uses the Dutch way for decimal notation.
    I would be perfectly fine using the U.S. way, but I'm not switching my Drive to U.S. English.
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  2. #3222
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Just a question to be sure on coin flips: if from an intricate situation I am to win more from losing a coin flip, then do I win it?

    To be clear: the effect is clearly stated as win and lose. It is obviously much better to win in >99.9% cases (or would appear so to non 4 CB aficionados).
    But in a few (very) corner cases, it would be beneficial to lose the dice.
    Should I assume that if such a situation arose, I would win the coin flip (which would still be beneficial, but less)?

    Hard to be more specific without giving away a deck :)

  3. #3223
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Just a question to be sure on coin flips: if from an intricate situation I am to win more from losing a coin flip, then do I win it?

    To be clear: the effect is clearly stated as win and lose. It is obviously much better to win in >99.9% cases (or would appear so to non 4 CB aficionados).
    But in a few (very) corner cases, it would be beneficial to lose the dice.
    Should I assume that if such a situation arose, I would win the coin flip (which would still be beneficial, but less)?

    Hard to be more specific without giving away a deck :)
    My understanding is that whatever the worst possible outcome is for the controller of the random effect is what happens.

  4. #3224

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    My understanding is that whatever the worst possible outcome is for the controller of the random effect is what happens.
    Owner, actually, but that rarely is relevant. (Donating a Mana Crypt, for example, is not a win condition because the Crypt's new controller never loses a coin flip unless it would result in winning.)

  5. #3225
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Owner, actually, but that rarely is relevant. (Donating a Mana Crypt, for example, is not a win condition because the Crypt's new controller never loses a coin flip unless it would result in winning.)
    So if I steal a mana crypt with a Thieving Skydiver, it is effectively a sol ring?

    Otherwise thanks for the answers, that tells me the result for my small problem - I actually had two still-legit pauper decks facing this little trouble, but one is definitely more fun than great :)

  6. #3226

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    So if I steal a mana crypt with a Thieving Skydiver, it is effectively a sol ring?

    Otherwise thanks for the answers, that tells me the result for my small problem - I actually had two still-legit pauper decks facing this little trouble, but one is definitely more fun than great :)
    Hilariously, yes.

  7. #3227
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    So if I steal a mana crypt with a Thieving Skydiver, it is effectively a sol ring?

    Otherwise thanks for the answers, that tells me the result for my small problem - I actually had two still-legit pauper decks facing this little trouble, but one is definitely more fun than great :)
    I'm not sure whether we defined the rule optimally.

    The idea is that if you get donated a Mana Crypt, you have a Sol Ring, and if you intentionally steal one, you will get all the damage. That's the idea of the rule. But I don't think we can define it well enough to make that happen, so let's stick to owner, so steal a Mana Crypt and you profit. It's one of those edge cases that shouldn't affect our competition too much.
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  8. #3228

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    I'm not sure whether we defined the rule optimally.

    The idea is that if you get donated a Mana Crypt, you have a Sol Ring, and if you intentionally steal one, you will get all the damage. That's the idea of the rule. But I don't think we can define it well enough to make that happen, so let's stick to owner, so steal a Mana Crypt and you profit. It's one of those edge cases that shouldn't affect our competition too much.
    If someone is going to put in that much effort to steal a Mana Crypt that most hands wouldn't play anyways, may as well let them have it damage-free.

  9. #3229

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Just a question to be sure on coin flips: if from an intricate situation I am to win more from losing a coin flip, then do I win it?
    I know this was already answered, but I wanted to share my phrasing of it: the non-owner chooses the outcome of random events.

    On the topic of crazy corner cases, I was wondering what happens if a player makes a hidden choice, does it not stay hidden? E.g, a player has two morphs, one of which is Skirk Marauder and one is Scornful Egotist. The opponent has a Shock and a Thallid. Do you get to Shock the Marauder?
    We also saw a similar situation with Innocent Blood last week, though that was a public choice. If the card in question was instead "each player discards a card", then the second choice would have to be made without knowledge of the first. Do we just remove the ability to make hidden choices?

  10. #3230
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    I know this was already answered, but I wanted to share my phrasing of it: the non-owner chooses the outcome of random events.

    On the topic of crazy corner cases, I was wondering what happens if a player makes a hidden choice, does it not stay hidden? E.g, a player has two morphs, one of which is Skirk Marauder and one is Scornful Egotist. The opponent has a Shock and a Thallid. Do you get to Shock the Marauder?
    We also saw a similar situation with Innocent Blood last week, though that was a public choice. If the card in question was instead "each player discards a card", then the second choice would have to be made without knowledge of the first. Do we just remove the ability to make hidden choices?
    There is no hidden choices.
    Everything is known.

    If someone plays a card that is unknown (morph for example), we consider the best line and decide which creature has been played. Same for any choice that is taken after.

  11. #3231
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    There is no hidden choices.
    Everything is known.

    If someone plays a card that is unknown (morph for example), we consider the best line and decide which creature has been played. Same for any choice that is taken after.
    Actually, the hidden cards are also known, because we have perfect information, so you can deduct what card it is from which cards remain.

    But you're right about choosing. There is none. We find optimal lines, and random effects always suit the opponent's optimal line of play.
    It can happen that a certain line uses outcome X for a coin flip, but later we find a better line of play, which requires the coin flip to end up as Y.
    In that case, the coin flip will end up as Y, because that served the optimal line of play for the opponent.
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  12. #3232
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Deadline has passed, and it looks like I'm missing Gobbo and FTW.

    I have an insane day at work (we're organizing an online conference and I'm in charge of tech), so I'll probably only be able to post decks tonight.
    So I can give you an additional 6-ish hours.
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  13. #3233

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I forgot to mention it earlier, but as someone who often double checks his submissions multiple times, I am absolutely on board with being named if/when my submission is missing.

    PS: Deckbox seems to be down, which is a little awkward, but not actually a problem.

  14. #3234
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Still no entries by FTW or GoblinSmashmaster, but I can't wait forever.

    I'll see if I can launch the round in the next hour and a bit.
    If I still see an entry, I'll add it. If not, we'll have to go without two regulars for once.
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  15. #3235
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Still no entries by FTW or GoblinSmashmaster, but I can't wait forever.

    I'll see if I can launch the round in the next hour and a bit.
    If I still see an entry, I'll add it. If not, we'll have to go without two regulars for once.
    Could we do something (for now or after) as "if someone did not submit in time, (s)he is attributed its last non-banned deck"?

    That would maybe allow for Asthereal and others to not have to wait, and for the ones unable to hold a deadline to still be in the race?

  16. #3236
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Could we do something (for now or after) as "if someone did not submit in time, (s)he is attributed its last non-banned deck"?

    That would maybe allow for Asthereal and others to not have to wait, and for the ones unable to hold a deadline to still be in the race?
    We could, but we should agree on such things before starting the competition.
    If we introduce it now, someone could complain that we didn't have this in a previous round where he/she had no time to send an entry.
    So I fear I'll have to post without them.

    We do, however, have a new player. Welcome, jhhdk, to our little competition of chaos!


    DECKS FOR ROUND 9 OF SEASON 8: Peasant Continued Bannathon

    1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Chronomaton, Forge Devil, Karplusan Wolverine
    2. dte: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathspore Thallid, mesmeric fiend
    3. Reeplcheep: Island, Chronomaton, Mistblade Shinobi, Wingcrafter
    4. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Blossoming Sands, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech
    5. alphastryk: Mountain, Mountain, Fireslinger, Goblin Cratermaker
    6. H: Island, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Duelist, Force Spike
    7. maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire
    8. silkster: Plains, Duergar Assailant, Brass Man, Swords to Plowshares
    9. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth
    10. jhhdk: Tinder Farm, Boros Garrison, Village Ironsmith, Tormented Pariah

    Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
    We also have a new Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing


    (PS. Anyone know why card tags have died? This is somewhat inconvenient.)
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  17. #3237
    GrimGrin and Glissa are in a boat...

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    (PS. Anyone know why card tags have died? This is somewhat inconvenient.)
    Deckbox.org seems to be dead

  18. #3238

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Deckbox.org seems to be dead
    Honestly, the tags should have been switched to Scryfall/Gatherer a while ago, but the issue is having the code to do so.

  19. #3239

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    4. Wrath of Pie: Swamp, Blossoming Sands, Tidehollow Sculler, Putrid Leech

    1. Asthereal (TO): Mountain, Chronomaton, Forge Devil, Karplusan Wolverine LL
    2. dte: Mishra's Factory, Swamp, Deathspore Thallid, mesmeric fiend LL
    3. Reeplcheep: Island, Chronomaton, Mistblade Shinobi, Wingcrafter LL
    5. alphastryk: Mountain, Mountain, Fireslinger, Goblin Cratermaker WW
    6. H: Island, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Duelist, Force Spike LL
    7. maxx!: Mishra’s Factory, Mountain, Bladeback Sliver, Cleansing Wildfire DL
    8. silkster: Plains, Duergar Assailant, Brass Man, Swords to Plowshares WW
    9. Tylert: Swamp, Chronomaton, Wretched banquet, Unearth LL
    10. jhhdk: Tinder Farm, Boros Garrison, Village Ironsmith, Tormented Pariah WW

    6w1d = 19 points

    Probably should not have submitted something that autolost to Chronomaton, that would have been wise. Now I am about to see how I match up against American Thanksgiving, I don't think I stand a chance.
    Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 11-27-2020 at 05:59 AM.

  20. #3240
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Deckbox.org seems to be dead
    Poor timing, as we're now constantly playing cards I need to look up.
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