Yeah, I got hit with a double stack of paperwork yesterday, still working through myself, haha.Originally Posted by Asthereal
Thanks, I got your submission!
I'll give the others a bit more time.
Can't post decks now anyways, as work is quite busy today.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Who else are we missing, and do they know they haven't submitted yet?
No time for it this week (In hollidays). I sent something crappy, like last week :)
While were waiting, a quick question about legality: are we using the online version of pauper, or the paper version of pauper? I'm guessing it's the online one, but they're slightly different, I think. So each week, I can draw from "all the cards legal in online pauper" plus "cards banned in online pauper" minus "cards in our own ban list". Is this correct?
There is only one version of Pauper, they merged them a few years ago.
If it was printed in any set as common, and hasn't been banned yet, it's legal. I played Desert many rounds ago.
Hunh. You'd think I would have known that. I guess I might as well specifically ask about Hada Freeblade, Spatial Contortion, and Circle of Flame which are banned in pauper and listed as such in scryfall, but don't appear on the dci banned list. Fortunately, it doesn't affect us if cards get banned during our rounds, but cards do get printed, so our cardpool does expand.
Edit: some reddit discussion from a year ago seems to draw a distinction between "common in a set" versus "common promos" because "promos are not a set".
The Pauper B&R list is irrelevant to 4CB. We use the pool of commons and then make our own bannings. What matters is if the card was ever printed at common in any set. Promos are not a set (and what does "rarity" even mean for a promo?).
I brought up Desert because it was one of the big name cards that was legal in Paper Pauper but not in MTGO Pauper (because it was never released online at that point).
Edit: If you look up Hada Freeblade on Gatherer and check "Sets and Legality", it only shows the Worldwake printing (uncommon). The promo isn't even on there.
Thanks! Just making sure.
Not surprisingly, Magic Online bugs were involved in that.
Apologies for the delay. My evening went a little different than planned.
Anyway, here we go, and welcome dte to our little competition of chaos!
DECKS FOR ROUND 8 OF SEASON 7: Pauper Bannathon
1. Asthereal (TO): Khalni Garden, Azorius Chancery, Selesnya Evangel, Esper Stormblade
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Ferocious Tigorilla
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Memnite, Mana Skimmer, Culling the Weak
4. dte: Remote Farm, Remote Farm, Battle Screech, Battle Screech
5: FTW: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Ornithopter, Kjeldoran Dead
6. alphastryk: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Fume Spitter, Shamble Back
7. Wrath of Pie: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Qasali Pridemage, Selesnya Evangel
8. maxx!: Swamp, Liliana's Steward, Dead Weight, Shamble Back
9. silkster: Swamp, Fume Spitter, Liliana's Steward, Bone Picker
10. H: Mountain, Lava Dart, Grim Initiate, Grim Initiate
11. Tylert: Forest, Mountain, Bond Beetle, Horned Kavu
Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
I'll update the Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
Join the 4 Card Blind competition!
Round 8: Cheese the taplands
Swamp, Memnite, Mana Skimmer, Culling the Weak
1. Asthereal (TO): Khalni Garden, Azorius Chancery, Selesnya Evangel, Esper Stormblade
Your chancery will never be untapped. 6-0
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Ferocious Tigorilla
Your creature is bigger than mine 0-6
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Memnite, Mana Skimmer, Culling the Weak
Me
4. dte: Remote Farm, Remote Farm, Battle Screech, Battle Screech
You can't do anything with 2 mana 6-0
5: FTW: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Ornithopter, Kjeldoran Dead
I can't beat discard or a faster, regenerating creature. 0-6
6. alphastryk: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Fume Spitter, Shamble Back
I can't beat discard OTD or a 1 mana 2/2 that gains 2 life OTP (eats my memnite). 0-6
7. Wrath of Pie: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Qasali Pridemage, Selesnya Evangel
You can't do anything with just G. 6-0
8. maxx!: Swamp, Liliana's Steward, Dead Weight, Shamble Back
I lose to removal 0-6
9. silkster: Swamp, Fume Spitter, Liliana's Steward, Bone Picker
OTP none of your 1 drops beat my 2/2. OTD Spitter into bone picker wins. 3-3
10. H: Mountain, Lava Dart, Grim Initiate, Grim Initiate
Edit: Per below, You have to kill my dude with lava dart immediately. If i'm OTP that draws, OTD that wins. 1-4
11. Tylert: Forest, Mountain, Bond Beetle, Horned Kavu
OTP you never cast your kavu. OTD your creature is bigger. 3-3
25 points?
At least the math was easy here.
Edit: i am informed that memnite is not pauper legal. Switching to ornithopter doesn't change anything I believe.
Last edited by Reeplcheep; 08-20-2020 at 02:57 PM.
5: FTW: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Ornithopter, Kjeldoran Dead
In discard mode, I lead with T1 Ornithopter + Cry. Cry makes you discard and haunts Ornithopter. T2 I play Dead, sac Ornithopter, and trigger Haunt for the 2nd discard.
In aggro mode, I can play T1 Ornithopter + Dead if needed (e.g. discarding Cry). I could also draw by blocking a 1/1 with Ornithopter.
1. Asthereal (TO): OTP I double Cry before you untap with Garden, and you can't do anything. OTD you play Garden, I Cry you. You can discard Evangel, then play Chancery and return Garden. I play Dead triggering the 2nd Cry. You can discard Garden and cast Stormblade, but it doesn't get the buff so my 3/1 races. WW 6-0
2. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP Cry stops you. OTD your Gorilla is too fast and I can't block Menace. WL 3-3
3. Reeplcheep: OTP Cry stops you. OTD Mana Skimmer comes T1, so I play T1 Dead. You can't both lock down my swamp and block Dead at the same time, so you can't trade to draw. 3/1 races you. WW 6-0
4. dte: OTP and OTD I double Cry before you can cast Battle Screech, so flashback is never online. WW 6-0
6. alphastryk: OTP if I lead with Dead, you Cry my Cry, then Fume Spitter kills Dead and Shamble Back kills me. If I lead with Cry, you can discard Fume Spitter, Cry my Dead, then Shamble Back and your 2/2 beats through Ornithopter. OTD it should be even worse for me. LL 0-6
7. Wrath of Pie: Like Asthereal, OTP I double Cry you off both creatures, and OTD you can get out Sanctuary + one creature in time. But you will get Evangel + a plant token, so you can go wide with tokens to win. WL 3-3
8. maxx!: OTP I Cry you. If you discard Dead Weight, my Dead races you (you'll have to discard one of the others and can't race). If you discard Steward or Shamble Back, then you can discard the other to haunt and save Dead Weight to draw.
OTD you play Steward. If I Cry you, you discard Dead Weight, then use Steward to discard my Dead and Shamble Back a 2/2 to win. If I just play T1 Dead, you Dead Weight it and Shamble Back a 2/2 to still win. DL 1-4
9. silkster: OTP I Cry. You discard Steward. Then I play Dead, you discard Bone Picker, and Fume Spitter trades to draw.
OTD you play Steward. I Cry and you discard Fume Spitter. Steward makes me discard Dead and you cast Bone Picker to beat through my 0/2. DL 1-4
10. H: OTP I Cry you. You discard an Initiate, then play the other. If I play Dead, you discard Lava Dart to 2nd Cry, then flashback to kill Dead and your Initiate gets there. If I do nothing, you can beat through Ornithopter with Initiate + Lava Dart (discarding nothing to 2nd Cry). OTD should be worse for me. LL 0-6
11. Tylert: OTP and OTD Cry stops Kavu, because you need all 4 cards, and Dead races the Beetle. WW 6-0
32 points (10 wins, 2 draws, 8 losses)
7. Wrath of Pie: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Qasali Pridemage, Selesnya Evangel
1. Asthereal (TO): Khalni Garden, Azorius Chancery, Selesnya Evangel, Esper Stormblade DD
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Ferocious Tigorilla WW
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Memnite, Mana Skimmer, Culling the Weak LL - Memnite was never a common, while Ornithopter was at one point. You obviously meant to submit the legal card, right?
4. dte: Remote Farm, Remote Farm, Battle Screech, Battle Screech LL
5: FTW: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Ornithopter, Kjeldoran Dead WL
6. alphastryk: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Fume Spitter, Shamble Back WL
8. maxx!: Swamp, Liliana's Steward, Dead Weight, Shamble Back WL
9. silkster: Swamp, Fume Spitter, Liliana's Steward, Bone Picker LL
10. H: Mountain, Lava Dart, Grim Initiate, Grim Initiate WW
11. Tylert: Forest, Mountain, Bond Beetle, Horned Kavu WW
9w2d = 29 points
Lush Growth would have been good this round.
Sorry didn't think much about the 0 drop since it is just there as a sac target. Don't think any results change if it is phyrexian walker or ornithopter.
TigorSmashmaster Results for Round "no LD"
1. Asthereal (TO): Khalni Garden, Azorius Chancery, Selesnya Evangel, Esper Stormblade
Too many blockers 0-6
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Ferocious Tigorilla
That's me!
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Memnite, Mana Skimmer, Culling the Weak
Tigor smash! 6-0
4. dte: Remote Farm, Remote Farm, Battle Screech, Battle Screech
Too many blockers 0-6
5: FTW: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Ornithopter, Kjeldoran Dead
Tigor smashes, then cries 3-3
6. alphastryk: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Fume Spitter, Shamble Back
Tigor smashes, then cries 3-3
7. Wrath of Pie: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Qasali Pridemage, Selesnya Evangel
Too many blockers 0-6
8. maxx!: Swamp, Liliana's Steward, Dead Weight, Shamble Back
Tigor smash! 6-0
9. silkster: Swamp, Fume Spitter, Liliana's Steward, Bone Picker
Tigor trade 1-4
10. H: Mountain, Lava Dart, Grim Initiate, Grim Initiate
Tigor stare 2-2
11. Tylert: Forest, Mountain, Bond Beetle, Horned Kavu
Tigor stare 2-2
Total: 23 points
Last edited by GoblinSmashmaster; 08-21-2020 at 09:45 AM.
1. Asthereal (TO): Khalni Garden, Azorius Chancery, Selesnya Evangel, Esper Stormblade
OTP: I lead with Swamp -> Fume Spitter, you play Khalni Garden, then on my 2nd turn I Cry and Fume Spitter to Cry again while Killing the Plant. No single card you keep results in a threat, so Shamble Back goes the distance. W
OTD: You lead with Garden, I can either play Fume Spitter and go slowly, or just accept Cry as a single discard spell and play it out. With your bounce land, I think I have time to play out Fume Spitter first then take 2 cards, with the same results as when I'm OTP. EDIT - as FTW pointed out, Garden in hand is now a dead card that can be discarded, so double discard doesn't result in a win. You keep Stormblade since it can be cast off the single land, which can force the draw against Shamble Back. D
4-1
2. GoblinSmashmaster: Mountain, Rite of Flame, Rite of Flame, Ferocious Tigorilla
OTP: Cry takes away 1 card and that's enough. W
OTD: You make Tigorilla and I can't really interact profitably. L
3-3
3. Reeplcheep: Swamp, Memnite, Mana Skimmer, Culling the Weak
OTP Cry takes away 1 card and that's enough. W
OTD: Shamble Back (eating Memnite) with its life gain can race Mana Skimmer
6-0
4. dte: Remote Farm, Remote Farm, Battle Screech, Battle Screech
Welcome to the party! Cry is really good vs slow decks like this. WW
6-0
5: FTW: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Ornithopter, Kjeldoran Dead
Oh hey, this was my other version of this deck! Fume Spitter is pretty nuts in the "mirror" though. WW
6-0
6. alphastryk: Swamp, Cry of Contrition, Fume Spitter, Shamble Back
This is me
7. Wrath of Pie: Khalni Garden, Selesnya Sanctuary, Qasali Pridemage, Selesnya Evangel
OTP: I lead with Swamp -> Fume Spitter, you play Khalni Garden, then on my 2nd turn I Cry and Fume Spitter to Cry again while Killing the Plant. No single card you keep results in a threat, so Shamble Back goes the distance. W
OTD: You lead with Garden, I can either play Fume Spitter and go slowly, or just accept Cry as a single discard spell and play it out. With your bounce land, I think I have time to play out Fume Spitter first then take 2 cards, with the same results as when I'm OTP. EDIT - as FTW pointed out, Garden in hand is now a dead card that can be discarded, so double discard doesn't result in a win. You keep Pridemage, which wins the race as a 3/3 when attacking. L
3-3
8. maxx!: Swamp, Liliana's Steward, Dead Weight, Shamble Back
OTP: If I lead on Fume Spitter, you can either play Dead Weight or Steward. Playing Steward means you lose your other 2 cards, but then I lose my last card, so that's a draw forced. Playing Dead Weight removes Fume Spitter and Dead Weight from the equation. If we go that route, I uncap and can play Cry or Shamble Back. Cry seems better so that we ultimately each end up with the Shamble Back Zombie only, forcing a draw. If I instead lead with Cry, you pitch Steward and Dead Weight is better than Fume Spitter, so I can't go that route. D
OTD: You get to lead on Steward, then I can either lead with Fume Spitter or Cry, knowing I'll lose a card on your turn. Fume Spitter is low impact, while Cry takes away either your 2/2 or your removal spell, so I Cry, and you pitch Dead Weight. Then you can either use Steward (I'll discard Spitter) or keep the 1/2. So either this can end up with both of us only having a 2/2 or both of us having 2 creatures that can't profitably attack. Either way, we end up staring at each other and I don't see a path to anything but a draw. D
2-2
9. silkster: Swamp, Fume Spitter, Liliana's Steward, Bone Picker
Bone Picker is a common now, thanks to Double Masters. Interesting.
OTP: I lead on Cry, and you pitch Steward so that you still have the ability to Bone Picker eventually. If you then play out Fume Spitter, I play my Fume Spitter and kill yours, preventing Bone Picker. This would be a win for me. If you instead pitch Bone Picker to Cry and play out Steward, I get my 2/2 out while I can since I'll lose my other card to Steward, and neither of us ends ups with profitable attacks. That would be a draw. If instead, you pitch Fume Spitter to Cry, you get to play Steward out with a plan of making me discard and then playing Bone Picker, which I can't beat.
Instead, if we go way back and I lead on Fume Spitter, I think the double discard works to my advantage. I play Fume Spitter, to avoid double discard you can play your Fume Spitter and trade with mine, but that doesn't really get you anywhere as single discard is now enough. I don't see a way that I can lose here, as the discard is too strong - Steward and Bone Picker each don't do enough on their own. EDIT - if I lead on Fume Spitter this way, as you pointed out you just lead with Steward which can force a draw where neither of us has a threat. D
OTD:
Here you get to lead with Steward, and nothing I can do prevents turn 2 discard into Bone Picker, which I can't beat. L
1-4
10. H: Mountain, Lava Dart, Grim Initiate, Grim Initiate
OTP: If I lead on Fume Spitter, you just Lava Dart it and it doesn't do anything, so I lead on Cry. I think you pitch Lava Dart here. Double Grim Initiate is probably beyond what I can defeat with Shamble Back. EDIT - thanks to FTW for finding the line for a draw here: I lead with Fumer Spitter, and H Lava Darts it to prevent double Cry. I then Cry, taking out 1 Initiate. Then H plays the second Initiate and I play Shamble Back. I can't ever attack because I lose the zombie to Initiate + flashback Dart, but H can't attack because I win the race, so we stare at each other. D
OTD: Seems like this is not meaningfully different OTD. L
1-4
11. Tylert: Forest, Mountain, Bond Beetle, Horned Kavu
OTP: I lead with Cry which is enough to prevent Horned Kavu from ever coming down. Shamble Back defeats Bond Beetle. W
OTD: You lead with Beetle, then I Cry, which again is enough to prevent Horned Kavu. Shamble Back defeats Bond Beetle. W
6-0
Total: 38
Last edited by alphastryk; 08-21-2020 at 12:32 PM.
Nice deck. I thought the Fume Spitter version would be too slow against other decks, but most people played slow decks anyway, and Spitter is much better in the mirror.
Double Cry is too slow OTD. He leads with Garden. You play Spitter. He plays his Sanctuary, returning Garden. Then he can discard Garden +a creature and play the other creature on 1 land. Because you can kill the plant, Evangel is bad, but Pridemage attacks as a 3/3 to beat your 2/2.
WL 3-3
The only reason we can beat him OTP is we can double Cry before Sanctuary enters, so he can't discard the Garden.
Same thing here. OTD we can't take 2 cards before he can play Chancery. If you Fume Spitter his Plant to make him discard 2, he will just keep Stormblade and cast it off 1 land. I still beat him because my 3/1 races, but he can trade his 2/1 with your 2/2 to draw.
If you use Cry as a single discard spell instead, he will discard Stormblade. Then you have Fume Spitter + Shamble Back vs Evangel + 2 plants. You can kill 1 plant, but he can use the other to make infinite Saprolings and win... so this is a bad line for you.
Might be WD?
@FTW thanks for walking through the bounce land matchups - I was forgetting the Garden is a now dead card to discard OTD. Will update those and add my other match results now.
It doesn't change anything in that both decks are illegal...
Memnite is uncommon.
Phyrexian Walker is common, but banned from several rounds ago (otherwise I would have played it to have a much better blocker).
You meant Ornithopter or Shield Sphere right?
Should be DL for you.
OTP you play Skimmer on turn 1. H has to immediately Lava Dart it or get locked out, with no time to cast a creature.
OTD H can play a creature first and win with that.
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