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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #421
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    D L 9. Tylert I think overseer and chronomaton can always block and kill eachother so itís a draw since I can never get the advantage. Maybe I'm wrong
    If i'm OTP, I win because i destroy your land and my chronomaton will race overseer if you played it instead of scepter.
    If i'm OTD, you will have isochron scepter online before i can do anything. so you can destroy the first land i play and i will not be able to destroy your land and you will be able to kill all my permanents.

    So W L instead of DL i think.
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  2. #422
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    Spirit of the Wretch, you are right that Sandstone Needle makes it much better. I forgot about those lands. That improves the combo turn quite a bit and gives more options to draw. Thanks!
    It does cost you the ability to suspend Gargamel and cast Balance in the same turn. Would that matter?

  3. #423
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    1. Asthereal: Mishra's Factory, Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire, Mayor of Avabruck
    2. Wrath of Pie: Shelldock Isle, Chronomaton, Lion's Eye Diamond, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
    3. Whoshim: Dwarven Hold, Greater Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance
    4. CptHaddock: Cathedral of War Inkmoth Nexus Maze of Ith The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    5. JackaBo: Pendelhaven, inkmoth nexus, drop of honey, field of ruin
    6. Ace/Homebrew: Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Unmask, Faerie Macabre
    7. spirit of the wretch: Keldon Megaliths, Rakdos Carnarium, Kitesail Freebooter, Ensnaring Bridge
    8. Strawberry Dwarf: City of Traitors, Isochron Scepter, Selesnya Charm, Mental Misstep
    9. Tylert: Sphere of resistance, chronomaton, city of traitors, field of ruins
    10. FTW: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton
    11. H: Bayou, Encroach, Mind Swords, Young Wolf
    12. apple713: City of Traitors, Isochron Scepter, Assassin's Trophy, Steel Overseer
    13. PirateKing: Cavern of Souls, Noble Hierarch, Nightshade Peddler. Swiftblade Vindicator
    14. kombatkiwi: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites

    1. Asthereal: OTP: Field of ruin T1, i can destroy whatever land you play and proceed to win. OTD: I have to play sphere T1, then chronomaton T2 and field of ruin to destroy mishra to win with my 1/1 than i cannot boost :) 6-0 6
    2. Wrath of pie: OTP: I play sphere of resistance. you can't play anthing else after that, except LED that would discard your hand without effect. OTD You can do your thing on T1 and end up with ulamog Under shelldock isle with LED on the top of your Library. If i play city and sphere you have to pay for LED but it forces the standoff because i have to destroy shelldock isle and loose my city. 4-1 9
    3. Whoshim: OTP: Field of ruin, chronomaton. you play dwarven hold, i destroy it on T2 and win. OTD: you play dwarven hold, I play sphere T1. You can only suspend greater gargadon That will be raced by chronomaton if you could cast it because i can destroy your land after playing chronomaton. 6-0 15
    4. CptHaddock: OTP or OTD, i can allways destroy your menace, but i cannot kill you because of maze of ith. 2-2 17
    5. JackaBo: You cannot destroy my FoD without drpping nexus, so i can destroy it in response of your FoD activation. Draw both games. 2-2 19
    6. Ace/Homebrew: OTP: I can land sphere T1 and chronomaton will race your 1/1. OTD: you can discard sphere and kill my 1/1 and win. 3-3 22
    7. Spirit of the wretch: I can allways destroy your rakdos carnarium and proceed to win. 6-0 28
    8. Strawberry dwarf: OTP: I can play field of ruins T1 and destroy your city. i play sphere next, and you can't pay for mental misstep and win with chronomaton. OTD: I can't avoid the fact that you will have a 2/2 But landing sphere after makes you unable to pay the cose and i can pay for chronomaton. 6-0 34
    9. Me
    10. FTW: OTP: I win by destroying your land. OTD: My lone chronomaton will race your 2 chronomaton that cannot be pumped because i killed your land on my T2. 6-0 40
    11. H: OTP: I win by landing sphere T1 or chronomaton . OTP: I win because I can chronomaton T1 whatever you do on your T1. 6-0 46
    12. apple713: OTP land T1, I destroy your land and if you played overseer, chronomaton will race it. OTD: I can play sphere T2 to force the draw. 4-1 50
    13. PirateKing: OTP i win by playing chronomaton T1 and destroying your land T2. OTD you can play peddler on T2 i can't attack profitably and you have 1 more threat than i have 3-3 53
    14. Kombatkiwi: OTP: I land sphere T1 and win. OTD: Iona races chronomaton. 3-3 56

    Total score = 56

    Ban field of ruins, it is too strong :)
    Last edited by Tylert; 03-14-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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  4. #424
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    If i'm OTP, I win because i destroy your land and my chronomaton will race overseer if you played it instead of scepter.
    If i'm OTD, you will have isochron scepter online before i can do anything. so you can destroy the first land i play and i will not be able to destroy your land and you will be able to kill all my permanents.

    So W L instead of DL i think.
    I wasent sure of the interaction between sphere and isochron scepter. I found conflicting answers when I searched for the interaction. Ill never be able to pay the additional 1, so even if i cast isochron I cant activate it until t2 and by then you have sphere up.

    Oh and otp you win because you cast sphere first and I cant cast anything, not for other reasons. Chronomaton and steel overseer when played on the same turn will alwyas be able to block and kill eachother.

    @H as for encroach, this is kinda better than wasteland in some ways since the player doesnít ever even get 1 use from the land if they are otd. However, against basic lands or if the encroah player is otd its pretty worthless. This is the first round its been played so weíll see. Itís a card i,ve had my eye on.
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  5. #425
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    I wasent sure of the interaction between sphere and isochron scepter. I found conflicting answers when I searched for the interaction. Ill never be able to pay the additional 1, so even if i cast isochron I cant activate itbuntil t2 and by then you have sphere up.
    I forgot that the activation cost was 2. so yes, it W for me OTP and D OTD.

    Sorry about that.
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  6. #426

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by spirit of the wretch View Post
    Play LED, play Shelldock, responde to the Hideaway trigger by cracking LED, shuffle LED, Ulamog and Chronomaton into your deck.
    Resolve Hideaway trigger => get Ulamog.
    next turn draw and play chronomaton
    thebn draw and play LED, crack Shelldock => Ulamog
    This is the correct answer.

    2. Wrath of Pie: Shelldock Isle, Chronomaton, Lion's Eye Diamond, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

    1. Asthereal: Mishra's Factory, Grove of the Burnwillows, Punishing Fire, Mayor of Avabruck WW
    3. Whoshim: Dwarven Hold, Greater Gargadon, Electrodominance, Restore Balance WW
    4. CptHaddock: Cathedral of War Inkmoth Nexus Maze of Ith The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale WW
    5. JackaBo: Pendelhaven, inkmoth nexus, drop of honey, field of ruin WW - Hideaway lets me order my cards, so your Field of Ruin is too slow.
    6. Ace/Homebrew: Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Unmask, Faerie Macabre LL
    7. spirit of the wretch: Keldon Megaliths, Rakdos Carnarium, Kitesail Freebooter, Ensnaring Bridge WW
    8. Strawberry Dwarf: City of Traitors, Isochron Scepter, Selesnya Charm, Mental Misstep WW - The traditional choice here is Lightning Helix, but that matters little against me, because I exile Scepter with the Ulamog cast.
    9. Tylert: Sphere of resistance, chronomaton, city of traitors, field of ruins DL - I can cast Ulamog t3 through Sphere via Shelldock, so you have to Sphere t1 and destroy Shelldock t2 on the play.
    10. FTW: City of Traitors, Sphere of Resistance, Chronomaton, Chronomaton WL - Sphere only slows me down on the play.
    11. H: Bayou, Encroach, Mind Swords, Young Wolf WL - Leading with Encroach forces a LED shuffle, and I draw Chronomaton and Ulamog which you Mind Swords away.
    12. apple713: City of Traitors, Isochron Scepter, Assassin's Trophy, Steel Overseer WL - Hideaway gets you on the play.
    13. PirateKing: Cavern of Souls, Noble Hierarch, Nightshade Peddler. Swiftblade Vindicator WW
    14. kombatkiwi: Karakas, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites WW

    19w1d = 58 points
    Last edited by Wrath of Pie; 03-18-2019 at 07:10 PM. Reason: Hideaway is better than I thought

  7. #427
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    Ban field of ruins, it is too strong :)
    I do agree
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  8. #428
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by apple713 View Post
    @H as for encroach, this is kinda better than wasteland in some ways since the player doesnít ever even get 1 use from the land if they are otd. However, against basic lands or if the encroah player is otd its pretty worthless. This is the first round its been played so weíll see. Itís a card i,ve had my eye on.
    Yeah, I meant "silly" as in wildly inconsistent, not powerful and ban worthy. It's fundamentally flawed, like you say, because often on the draw it's useless. I don't think it should be banned at all, in fact, I think it's good to have to keep some land-based strategies in check. Not to mention, Misstep is still legal.

    I think my experiment was sufficient to demonstrate the proof on concept at least, that it can have use. That's my real talent, consistently being mediocre.
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  9. #429
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Wrath of Pie: Shelldock Isle, Chronomaton, Lion's Eye Diamond, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre

    6. Ace/Homebrew: Chancellor of the Forge, Pyrokinesis, Unmask, Faerie Macabre WL
    How do you beat Faerie OTP?

    You play LED, then Isle, crack LED in response to Isle's trigger. When Ulamog triggers, I discard Faerie and permanently exile your threats, right?

  10. #430
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Two votes so far for banning Field of Ruin.

    It has been putting up impressive numbers, so I am inclined to agree.
    Who else has an opinion about banning this card?

  11. #431

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    How do you beat Faerie OTP?

    You play LED, then Isle, crack LED in response to Isle's trigger. When Ulamog triggers, I discard Faerie and permanently exile your threats, right?
    Mental shortcuts fail me again, let me fix that.

    EDIT: Actually, if I just hold back and cast Chronomaton and ignore hideaway that makes things more complicated. You should still get me though because of Pyrokinesis, and you can Macabre away the dead Chronomaton if I ever try a LED recursion loop.

  12. #432
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I'd vote against banning at this point. It certainly isn't over-represented. It also requires (at best) one or (at worst) two others cards to use. I think there should be something other than Encroach to pressure mana...

  13. #433

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    I'd vote against banning at this point. It certainly isn't over-represented. It also requires (at best) one or (at worst) two others cards to use. I think there should be something other than Encroach to pressure mana...
    Raze, Sea's Claim, Evil Presence, and Lush Growth can do the job just fine.

  14. #434
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Raze, Sea's Claim, Evil Presence, and Lush Growth can do the job just fine.
    So basically only Red can have land destruction and Tabernacle isn't a viable card anymore?

  15. #435
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I honestly don't think tabernacle is great in this Format...

    Field on the other Hand is extremly powerful and potentially oppressive
    Sneaky Pirates of Doom - Not really a Legacy Team anymore.

  16. #436
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Raze, Sea's Claim, Evil Presence, and Lush Growth can do the job just fine.
    I don't know, that seems like a bad deck to me,
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  17. #437

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    So basically only Red can have land destruction and Tabernacle isn't a viable card anymore?
    Tabernacle is not actually that good anyways, it feasts on threats cast via Lotus and those really don't exist because Black Lotus is (correctly) banned and Lotus Bloom is slow enough.

    Also, if you want colorless land destruction, you still have Dust Bowl.

    You should think less of land destruction and more of mana/wincon denial, because that is what the end goal of land destruction actually is, and the auras are quite potent at doing so.

  18. #438
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    If you want colorless land destruction, you still have Dust Bowl.
    Har har
    I have Tectonic Edge too.

    Whether or not it's good depends on the supporting three cards and what the meta looks like. Taking away an actually playable (and non-dominant) support piece removes an interesting axis of attack.

    Chronomaton on the other hand is over-represented and has probably accumulated far more points for those playing it...

  19. #439
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Chronomaton on the other hand is over-represented and has probably accumulated far more points for those playing it...
    I kind of agree, Chronomaton is kind of a jerk.
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  20. #440
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    My main issue with field is that it is too easily enabled with an ancient tomb and city of traitors. The majority of decks in this format rely on non basic lands so itís pretty much always relevant and there is not much downside.

    I dont know that id call it oppressive but it discourages decks from maximizing their mana which is extremely important in this format. In legacy its ok because the trade off is a reasonable setback for greedy manabases. In this format it becomes gamebreaking.
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