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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #3481
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    My only remark would be that some rounds are not restricted enough and some deck would win without any constraints forcing players to play around it.
    For example, city of traitors, lotus petal, laboratory maniac, mishra's bauble would probably be too strong and again the spirit of "Berserker", "Race for Life", "Turtle Up", etc...
    I don't know how to handle such situation without an extensive banlist because if not, it feels like traditionnal legacy 4CB.
    So addional bannings ARE required :)
    Lab Man is already banned. Don't forget to check our main banned list.

    EDIT: I swapped the lists around in the second post, so that the main Legacy banned list is on top again.
    EDIT2: I thought some more about the Turtle Up round because of your post, and decided to add that players can't win or lose the game during those turns either, just in case.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  2. #3482

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Everybody cool with that?
    Cool with that, thanks for all the organisation!
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    2. Dream Halls: Rather than pay the mana cost for a spell, its controller may discard a card that shares a color with that spell.
    Additional banning: Progenitus
    Additional bannings: anything that discard/remove multiple cards from an opponent's hand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    8. WUBRG: Each player starts the game with WUBRG in their mana pool. This mana doesn't empty from the pool as steps end.
    I do not believe this one to be interesting without multiple additional bans, e.g. mana short, lleyline of anticipation, etc.
    Or a restriction to BRG, or something else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    12. Bouncy castle: Each player starts the game with a Cloudstone Curio artifact token in play.
    for this one, and/or the vial one: this token cannot be interacted with (destroyed/bounced/removed/named/whatever was not though in advance)?
    Or do you/we prefer to have interactions with the specificities of the rounds?
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    - Pillow Fight: Creatures have indestructible.
    and Shroud?
    Otherwise we switch removal to StP/auras, and creatures don't kill each others in blocks, but not much else.
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    - Cornucopia: Each deck must contain non-land cards with at least 3 different colored mana symbols. Hybrid mana counts for 2.
    I would put hybrid and phyrexian counts 0. Otherwise we can play monocolor and it remove the round specificity?

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Also, please let me know what you think in general. I really like these, but it's not fully set in stone yet.
    I think they're pretty cool :)
    Also, that we would have plenty of time to make changes later anyway.

  3. #3483
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    For Vials Galore, lets include Sorcerous Spyglass in the ban list and maybe Null Rod effects as well?

  4. #3484
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Lab Man is already banned. Don't forget to check our main banned list.

    EDIT: I swapped the lists around in the second post, so that the main Legacy banned list is on top again.
    EDIT2: I thought some more about the Turtle Up round because of your post, and decided to add that players can't win or lose the game during those turns either, just in case.
    Ok, so it's the already extended banlist :)
    That was not in the first version of your post :)

  5. #3485
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Banned are:
    - All cards that reference "Ante" http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Se...%20ante.%22%5d
    - All cards that have card type "conspiracy" http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Se...nspiracy%22%5d
    - All cards from the sets Unglued and Unhinged
    I suppose unstable is banned? :)

  6. #3486

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Isn't Dream Halls just the more broken version of WUBRG?

  7. #3487

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    For Vials Galore, lets include Sorcerous Spyglass in the ban list and maybe Null Rod effects as well?
    We should just make it an emblem with "0: <Vial effect>. Activate this ability only if you haven't activated it since your last untap step." I don't think anyone had a problem with that, and then we can let people play Revoker if they want to revoke stuff, and we just don't have to worry about a banlist at all. We lose out on stuff that untaps Vial and, uh, combos with proliferate?

    I share Tylert's fear that certain round rules will basically be ignored, but maybe that's okay if it happens once or twice. And the banlist looks pretty robust. I was actually surprised by a bunch of stuff there and wondering if it's even necessary, but I don't know what Field of Ruin did to get banned.

    Making WUBRG into WRG or BRG might make it more interesting, but I think I'm fine either way.

    I agree that Cornucopia should only count the 5 basic symbols (and maybe colorless and snow), but hybrid and phyrexian make it too easy.

    I like the complete brokenness of the Dream Halls and Phyrexian Mana rounds, and I like that they should be very different.

  8. #3488

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Field of Ruin turned out to be really good, because Legacy has City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb and the quality 2-drop threats to pair with it. (It was banned later than it should have because Lupine Prototype was used as a scapegoat, but that's in the past.)

    Vial round should really be an emblem, still have to ban Suppression Field but that's preferable to the alternative.

  9. #3489
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Field of Ruin turned out to be really good, because Legacy has City of Traitors and Ancient Tomb and the quality 2-drop threats to pair with it. (It was banned later than it should have because Lupine Prototype was used as a scapegoat, but that's in the past.)

    Vial round should really be an emblem, still have to ban Suppression Field but that's preferable to the alternative.
    Afaik you can't put counters on an emblem. Do we ignore that idea and just do the Vial thing as an emblem with counters regardless?
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  10. #3490
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Afaik you can't put counters on an emblem. Do we ignore that idea and just do the Vial thing as an emblem with counters regardless?
    You can put counters on a player though. "During your upkeep, you get an experiance counter." Then, have the Vial emblem count the number of experience counters.

    Or, if you want to be wild, have the emblem say "a CMC equal to or less than the current turn count" although that means that whoever isn't much advantage to Playing first in that round.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  11. #3491
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Can't we just settle on the fact that you can not interact with the emblem and it acts exactly as a vial?
    We make up the rules!!

    Additional question: Is kaldheim legal?

  12. #3492

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Why not just "each player starts the game with an aether vial in play. Players are not allowed to interact with it (put/remove counters, sacrifice/bounce/destroy/remove/target/name it, prevent/counter its activation, etc.). It does not count as an artifact on the battlefield (e.g. covetous dragon), except for its printed effects, putting or not counters at upkeep, and tapping to put creatures into play."

    So we can play even null rod or anything, it does not stop the vial. We sort of have an agreement that we do not interact with it, and can use that for other rounds/ideas. Exactly like few rounds have the rule of a card (sphere of resistance, wheel of the sun and moon, dream halls, impatience, etc.) embedded in their own rule, with no possibility to interact.
    Otherwise it feels a bit as if we are trying to preemptively ban everything that could interact with the round's principle, but if someone finds something later on, good for her/him to ruin havoc the round.

  13. #3493

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Afaik you can't put counters on an emblem. Do we ignore that idea and just do the Vial thing as an emblem with counters regardless?
    Emblems are objects, counters can be placed on objects, thus counters can be placed on emblems. This is unlike status, which is defined as something specific to permanents.

  14. #3494
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by dte View Post
    Why not just "each player starts the game with an aether vial in play. Players are not allowed to interact with it (put/remove counters, sacrifice/bounce/destroy/remove/target/name it, prevent/counter its activation, etc.). It does not count as an artifact on the battlefield (e.g. covetous dragon), except for its printed effects, putting or not counters at upkeep, and tapping to put creatures into play."

    So we can play even null rod or anything, it does not stop the vial. We sort of have an agreement that we do not interact with it, and can use that for other rounds/ideas. Exactly like few rounds have the rule of a card (sphere of resistance, wheel of the sun and moon, dream halls, impatience, etc.) embedded in their own rule, with no possibility to interact.
    Otherwise it feels a bit as if we are trying to preemptively ban everything that could interact with the round's principle, but if someone finds something later on, good for her/him to ruin havoc the round.
    Something like that is probably the best answer, and leaves the rest of our deck construction more open

  15. #3495
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Is kaldheim legal?

  16. #3496
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quick updates (full briefing to follow):
    - I'm banning Leyline of Anticipation for the entirety of Legacy. It's too easy to abuse, especially in higher powered rounds, but also there's a new set coming out that I haven't been able to review at all just yet.
    - Kaldheim will be legal when it's released. So after the 5th of February.
    - The release of the set "Unstable" managed to escape my notice. That set is of course banned, though a quick look tells me it's a lot better than earlier attempts at a joke set.
    - The AEther Vial rounds will be redefined to an emblem that you may put counters on at the beginning of your upkeep and can be used only once until your next turn.
    - I'm keeping WURGB as is, with NO BANNINGS. You have mana. Use it well. With tons flash spells and counterspells, you have plenty of options. This round is supposed to be high power.
    - The Dream Halls round is indeed similar to WURGB, but each expensive card costing two cards, with only four to start, makes it very different (though still extremely high power).

    I'll be building the briefing for the round in the next hours. Stay tuned!
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  17. #3497
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    SEASON 9: DEVIANT LEGACY - PART 2

    This season, we play 15 rounds of Legacy, but with a twist: every round has a special rule which changes how Magic (and possibly 4CB) would normally work.
    We used a fixed banned list for every round, which you will find in the second post of this thread.
    Additionally, each round may contain its own bannings when we deem those necessary, which when relevant are mentioned in the rules for that round.

    For this season, we again stick to the scoring system from previous seasons:
    All players score season points for all rounds they play. Season points for each round equal total points scored for the round, divided by the number of opponents in that round.
    The tournament organizer will make calculations (or have Google Spreadsheet figure that stuff out) and keep track of standings below. Note: season points are always rounded to one decimal.

    THE SCHEDULE:

    1. Canadian Backbuild: A loss nets you 3 points and a win nets you zero. You still play optimally to win. Your deck must win both OTP and OTD against the Canadians (Snow-Covered Forest, Snow-Covered Mountain, Grizzly Bears, Balduvian Bears).

    2. Dream Halls: Rather than pay the mana cost for a spell, its controller may discard a card that shares a color with that spell.
    Additional bannings: Progenitus, Approach of the Second Sun

    3. Berserker: Creatures can't block, creatures attack each turn if able, combat damage cannot be prevented, prevent all non-combat damage to players.

    4. Basic Bloom: You can play any basic land from outside the game at any time you could play a land.
    Additional bannings: White Sun's Zenith, Red Sun's Zenith, Beacon of Creation

    5. The Coin: When you are on the draw, you begin the game with a Lotus Petal artifact token in play.

    6. Impatience: At the beginning of each playerís end step, if that player didnít cast a spell this turn, Impatience deals 2 damage to that player.

    7. WUBRG: Each player starts the game with (W) (U) (B) (R) (G) in their mana pool. This mana doesn't empty from the pool as steps end.
    Additional bannings: NONE! You have 5 mana. Make use of it!

    8. Supersize: All creatures get +3/+3.

    9. Race for Life: Players don't lose the game for having 0 life or less or from having 10 or more poison counters. If a player has 100 life or more, he or she wins the game. If no player can reach 100 life with optimal play from either side, the game ends in a draw.

    10. Turtle Up: Until the start of the 6th turn: spells can't be countered, permanents have hexproof and indistructible, cards in graveyards have hexproof and players have hexproof. Damage does not cause loss of life, and players can't win or lose the game. Players may choose to ignore effects controlled by an opponent that would cause a permanent they control or card in their hand to change zones.

    11. Bouncy castle: Each player starts the game with a Cloudstone Curio artifact token in play.

    12. The Epic Round: All sorceries have Epic (For the rest of the game, you can't cast spells. At the beginning of each of your upkeeps, copy this spell except for its epic ability.).

    13. Concise: Only cards with one-word names are legal.

    14. Bleed: At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player loses 1 life.

    15. Unique: Each player gets 1 additional season point in this round for each card in their deck that no other player submitted this round.


    And I've sent myself my deck for round one, so let's go!


    ROUND 1 OF SEASON 9: DEVIANT LEGACY - PART 2 has started.

    This round we play Canadian Backbuild[/U]: A loss nets you 3 points and a win nets you zero. You still play optimally to win. Your deck must win both OTP and OTD against the Canadians (Snow-Covered Forest, Snow-Covered Mountain, Grizzly Bears, Balduvian Bears).

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 1, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 20th of January at 11:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Swamp, Terror, Black Knight. (LOL my sample deck not only survived an entire season of bannathon, it's even legal for round 1 of the next season! )
    So with card tags around each card, and not above eachother, and with your Username and 4CB S09R01 in the topic.
    Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. You'll find it in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.

    Happy deck designing everybody!
    Last edited by Asthereal; Yesterday at 03:10 PM.
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  18. #3498

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I am going to have a lot of fun finding the worst possible land for my deck.

  19. #3499

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep View Post
    I am going to have a lot of fun finding the worst possible land for my deck.
    Asthereal would suggest Thalakos Lowlands, but I'm afraid even that is too good for this round.

  20. #3500
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    For Backbuild, does the deck have to WW 6-0 against the Canadian deck even if Canadians choose to do nothing?

    Is this a Backbuild where we swap decks? Or do we keep our decks and play optimally but only score points if we lose? What are the points if we draw?

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