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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #2361
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    Just confirming that I sent mine over an hour ago. If I need to send again, let me know. Hope I'm not holding it up more.
    I received it just fine. Doing some stuff at work now, then have to travel home. I'll post decks in 1-2 hours.
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  2. #2362
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Or I'll post them now.

    DECKS FOR ROUND 11 OF SEASON 6: 4.5CB

    1. Asthereal (TO): Simian Spirit Guide, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Sire of Insanity, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation
    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Tundra, Judge's Familiar, Daze, Path to Exile, OTD card: Force of Negation
    3. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality, OTD card: Leyline of Sanctitiy
    4. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer, OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    5. Tylert: Magus of the Moon, Rift Bolt, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, OTD card: Pyrokinesis
    6. silkster: Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, Barbed Shocker, OTD card: Hangarback Walker
    7. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Thought-Knot Seer OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    8. FTW: Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation

    Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
    I'll update the Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
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  3. #2363
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Asthereal scores for round 11:

    1. Asthereal (TO): Simian Spirit Guide, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Sire of Insanity, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation
    That's me, with a not very well though out deck at all, the extent to which will be shown in the descrepancy between FTW's score and my own.
    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Tundra, Judge's Familiar, Daze, Path to Exile, OTD card: Force of Negation
    OTP you use the Force. OTD I can go off but you can still play Tundra into Path. I can also wait, but that opens up Daze. No chence here, I think. 0-6
    3. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality, OTD card: Leyline of Sanctitiy
    Your OTD card doesn't help you against my deck. On turn 1, or in your upkeep for turn 1, I make Sire and you lose your shit because all your lands come into play tapped. 6-0
    4. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer, OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    OTP I can make you discard the full 5 and Sire wins it. OTD I can make Sire in your upkeep, but you still get to cast one guy. That one guy can get to 4 power before I murder you and we trade. 4-1
    5. Tylert: Magus of the Moon, Rift Bolt, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, OTD card: Pyrokinesis
    My dude is bigger than yours and you have to discard Bolt. But Sire dies to Pyro OTP, which is unfortunate. 3-3
    6. silkster: Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, Barbed Shocker, OTD card: Hangarback Walker
    OTP I'm fast enough to make you discard the full 5. OTD all you have is Shocker, which loses to a Sire taht appears before your guy. 6-0
    7. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Thought-Knot Seer OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    Your OTD card doesn't help you against my deck. On turn 1, or in your upkeep for turn 1, I make Sire and you lose your relevant shit. Sire beats Revoker OTP. 6-0
    8. FTW: Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation
    Yeah, this version is probably quite a lot better than mine. I wanted to play around Karakas, but should have gambled and went for the objectively better fattie. For the result: you can stop me from playing my fattie OTD, but even when you're OTP you just wait for me to make my Sire, then you make your Iona before discarding your empty hand and proceed to prove that a 7/7 is bigger than a 6/4. 0-6

    Total: 25 points? I may have missed a few things as I did this FAST from work.
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  4. #2364
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I definitely misread the metagame here, I thought there would be few fast combo decks since Force of Negation or Leyline of the Void would be a common 5th card, so I tried to just play a good fair deck while preventing myself from being disrupted. As it turns out, I should have chosen a different Leyline as my 5th card.

    1. Asthereal (TO): Simian Spirit Guide, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Sire of Insanity, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation

    I get Sired and lose everything relevant both OTP and OTD. LL

    0-6

    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Tundra, Judge's Familiar, Daze, Path to Exile, OTD card: Force of Negation

    OTP: I can't Trophy your Familiar because you can Force it and I can't get it back with Elixir. If I ever animate Treetop Village, I lose it permanently to Path. If, however, I just sit back and recycle the Elixir after making you use your Force on the Trophy I gain life faster than the Familiar hurts me. I don't see a way this isn't a draw. D
    OTD: You don't have the Force, so I'm able to eventually Trophy the Familiar through Daze. Then I recycle Trophy with Elixir and Trophy your land. Then I can safely activate my Treetop Village to kill you. W

    4-1

    3. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality, OTD card: Leyline of Sanctitiy

    This is me, my 5th card didn't really matter much.

    4. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer, OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker

    OTP: Your Revoker makes things complicated, as recycling with Elixir gets harder. That should be enough to give you the win. L
    OTD: I think maybe this is just not a winnable matchup even without the Revoker, as you can go wider than Trophy can really handle. L

    0-6

    5. Tylert: Magus of the Moon, Rift Bolt, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, OTD card: Pyrokinesis

    I cannot defeat the Moon man. However, the moon man cannot race Elixir. DD

    2-2

    6. silkster: Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, Barbed Shocker, OTD card: Hangarback Walker

    Both OTP and OTD I lose my hand before I can really do anything. LL

    0-6

    7. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Thought-Knot Seer OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker

    OTP: I play out Treetop Village, you play out Tomb, Thorn. I play Rot Farm, bouncing my Treetop Village. You play Thought-Knot and exile my Trophy forever. I play and Elixir, you play Revoker and name Elixir. Treetop Village is no match for your 4/4. L
    OTD: Hey, my Leyline does something! Though-Knot Seer is just a generic 4/4 now. This means I'm able to keep my Trophy and use it to kill Seer. W

    3-3

    8. FTW: Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation

    I get Iona-ed and can do nothing relevant both OTP and OTD. LL

    0-6

    Total: 9 points
    Last edited by alphastryk; 06-18-2020 at 08:35 AM.

  5. #2365
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    8. FTW: Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation


    1. Asthereal (TO): Ah, the mirror. OTP you can Sire on my upkeep but Iona is bigger. OTD I upkeep Iona naming black and lock out you. WW 6-0
    2. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP I don't have flash so I lose to Force. OTD I upkeep Iona naming white, locking you out. LW 3-3
    3. alphastryk: OTP and OTD I make turn 1 Iona naming green, shutting off Trophy. Then my 7/7 races your lifegain. WW 6-0
    4. Wrath of Pie: OTP I make turn 1 Iona naming red. OTD I flash in upkeep Iona under your disruption. 7/7 flying races your clock. WW 6-0
    5. Tylert: OTP and OTD I make Iona on red before you can cast spells. WW 6-0
    6. silkster: Nice idea, but Iona's still faster. OTP I turn 1 Iona on red and it races Walker. OTD I upkeep Iona on red, locking you out. WW 6-0
    7. H: OTP I turn 1 Iona on green. OTD I flash in upkeep Iona under Thorn. 7/7 is faster. WW 6-0

    39 points (13 wins, 1 loss)

    Wow, I really expected to get wrecked by counters but only GoblinSmashmaster went there. My plan to sneak under sorcery speed interaction paid off.

  6. #2366

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Me: silkster: Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, Barbed Shocker, OTD card: Hangarback Walker

    1. Asthereal (TO): Simian Spirit Guide, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Sire of Insanity, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation 0 points

    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Tundra, Judge's Familiar, Daze, Path to Exile, OTD card: Force of Negation
    My mana is too tight to get through Daze + Path, but I function through Force of Negation. 3 points

    3. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality, OTD card: Leyline of Sanctitiy
    This is the deck that tipped the scales for me. I'm sorry I metagamed against you. It was not worth it. 6 points.

    4. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer, OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    I win on the play. On the draw, this math is hard. Calculations below. 6 points, pending

    5. Tylert: Magus of the Moon, Rift Bolt, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, OTD card: Pyrokinesis
    I didn't think anyone would actually run Pyrokinesis. OTD, you have to start with Magus. I play Walker. You suspend Bolt and attack for 2. I pass, you point bolt at Walker, who makes 2 Thopters. You get the attack first (and have 2 damage in), so I can't fly over and race and I've already spent one SSG to make the Walker. LD, 1 point

    7. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Thought-Knot Seer OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker 6 points

    8. FTW: Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation Too fast. 0 points.

    22 points. I found this week really difficult to think of any decks that weren't "me", so my test decks were completely inbred. When I remembered the Assassin's Elixir deck, I went with the one that beat that, cause I know I forget that deck all the time. I tried to make Leyline of Anticipation work, but I couldn't find the instant mana sources. I separately considered Unburial Rites, but thought it would be bad here.
    I think my old standby of Restore Balance with a bounce spell instead of Duress (expecting Sanctity), and Force of Negation backup, would have scored 28, but some of the matches are really confusing.

    OTD against Wrath of Pie, starting anything other than Hangarback is a loss, so:
    Hangarback, Shocker gets in for 2. 18-20
    Wait, Shocker gets in for 2, W-2/2, S-1/1, 16-20.
    We now play the strangest of waiting games. I think I win by making a 6/6 and attacking. Wrath has 3 defensive options, outlined below. I'm pretty sure that going on the offensive with like a 4/4 or something is not winning. In that case, I could block to make 3 Thopters, swing back for 5, and have a 4 turn clock even without the insect.

    Make a Walker bigger than 6/6. (But not bigger than 8/8) You now have to attack or flyers will get you, but I win in 2 returns and you don't have lethal in 2 turns.
    Trade as a 6/6. I now have more stuff in play and will win.
    Make a 5/5. Attacking for 5, the return is 8, bring you down to 8. You now need to leave a blocker back, so you attack for 4, but 5+4+3+2+1 isn't enough anyway, so I think I win this.
    Last edited by silkster; 06-17-2020 at 01:38 PM.

  7. #2367
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Haha, my deck is so laughably bad it is almost unbelievable.

    Pretty sure I get solid zero for the round.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  8. #2368

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    YodaSmashmaster Results for Round "Turn 0 Blind"


    1. Asthereal (TO): Simian Spirit Guide, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Sire of Insanity, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation
    The Force is strong in this one 6-0

    2. GoblinSmashmaster: Tundra, Judge's Familiar, Daze, Path to Exile, OTD card: Force of Negation
    That's me!

    3. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality, OTD card: Leyline of Sanctitiy
    The Force is weak in this one 1-4

    4. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer, OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    I use the Force and Hangarback walks the Path, but you remain with Steely resolve 0-6

    5. Tylert: Magus of the Moon, Rift Bolt, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, OTD card: Pyrokinesis
    Magus is Dazed and confused, but the Judge spontaneously combusts 1-4

    6. silkster: Simian Spirit Guide, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, Barbed Shocker, OTD card: Hangarback Walker
    Shocker is lost in a Daze while Hangarback walks the Path 3-3

    7. H: Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Thought-Knot Seer OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    I use the Force, while the Seer is Dazed and confused 2-2

    8. FTW: Lion's Eye Diamond, Simian Spirit Guide, Unburial Rites, Iona, Shield of Emeria, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation
    I use the Force 3-3


    Total: 16 points

  9. #2369
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Haha, my deck is so laughably bad it is almost unbelievable.

    Pretty sure I get solid zero for the round.
    I see at least 5 points for you already (above). You should score against Wrath too. You can TKS one threat and Revoke another.

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  11. #2371
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I see at least 5 points for you already (above). You should score against Wrath too. You can TKS one threat and Revoke another.
    Well, you are likely right about 5, but I can't beat Wrath. I only have Revoker on the Draw and there I can't TKS anything.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  12. #2372
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, you are likely right about 5, but I can't beat Wrath. I only have Revoker on the Draw and there I can't TKS anything.
    As somebody who has had scored a 2 and a 3 in this season (and a 7 this round), 5 doesn't sound that bad!
    Last edited by alphastryk; 06-17-2020 at 03:48 PM.

  13. #2373
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Thanks for entering all the results in the Google spreadsheet, whoever did that.

    Preliminary standings for round 11:
    1. FTW: 39 - 5,6
    2. Tylert: 25 - 3,6
    3. Asthereal (TO): 24 - 3,4
    4. silkster: 22 - 3,1
    5. Wrath of Pie: 21 - 3
    6. GoblinSmashmaster: 16 - 2,3
    7. alphastryk: 9 - 1,3
    8. H: 5 - 0,7

    Which would lead to these standings in the season, with one final round to go:
    1. FTW: 37,7
    2. Wrath of Pie: 37,1
    3. Tylert: 35,9
    4. Asthereal (TO): 32,6
    5. silkster: 32,3
    6. Moosedog: 28
    7. alphastryk: 24,5
    8. GoblinSmashmaster: 20,8
    9. H: 19,3

    So yeah, FTW's excellent round nets him the lead, but the top 3 is less than 2 season points apart!
    This is one of the most exceiting season finales we've had so far.


    EDIT: Before we start the season finale, we need to figure out what we do with targeted discard that costs just with the rule for the round.
    Right now I lean to banning those (creatures not included, as you get your card back if you kill them), but perhaps people can make a case for another side.
    Let me know what you ant to do!
    Last edited by Asthereal; 06-18-2020 at 06:41 AM.
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  14. #2374

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    3. alphastryk: Golgari Rot Farm, Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Elixir of Immortality, OTD card: Leyline of Sanctitiy

    This is me, my 5th card didn't really matter much.


    5. Tylert: Magus of the Moon, Rift Bolt, Simian Spirit Guide, City of Traitors, OTD card: Pyrokinesis

    I cannot defeat the Moon man. LL

    0-6
    You may not be able to defeat the Moon Man, but the Moon Man can't defeat you either. DD

  15. #2375
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    You may not be able to defeat the Moon Man, but the Moon Man can't defeat you either. DD
    Moon man attacks for 2 per turn.
    Elixir gains 5 life per 2 turns.

    You may have a point.

    EDIT: I see this makes the season finale a tad less exciting though...
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  16. #2376
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    1. Asthereal (TO): Simian Spirit Guide, Lion's Eye Diamond, Unburial Rites, Sire of Insanity, OTD card: Leyline of Anticipation
    4. Wrath of Pie: City of Traitors, Thorn of Amethyst, Hangarback Walker, Steel Overseer, OTD card: Phyrexian Revoker
    OTP I can make you discard the full 5 and Sire wins it. OTD I can make Sire in your upkeep, but you still get to cast one guy. That one guy can get to 4 power before I murder you and we trade. 4-1
    I just noticed your result doesn't agree with Wrath's. I think Wrath is correct. 6/4 Sire trades with his 4/4 Hangarback Walker, but then he gets 4 Thopter tokens and wins.
    WL 3-3

  17. #2377
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I just noticed your result doesn't agree with Wrath's. I think Wrath is correct. 6/4 Sire trades with his 4/4 Hangarback Walker, but then he gets 4 Thopter tokens and wins.
    WL 3-3
    Ah right. Yup, that's 3-3. Adjusting the things now...
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  18. #2378
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by silkster View Post
    You may not be able to defeat the Moon Man, but the Moon Man can't defeat you either. DD
    Good point. Will update.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    EDIT: Before we start the season finale, we need to figure out what we do with targeted discard that costs just with the rule for the round.
    Right now I lean to banning those (creatures not included, as you get your card back if you kill them), but perhaps people can make a case for another side.
    Let me know what you ant to do!
    My thought would be that everything being discounted means everything is more powerful, and the discard spells that "become" thoughtseize / cabal therapy are probably a fine power level for this round.

    If we do decide to ban them, I've got a short list of cards (I found 6) that would be affected.

  19. #2379
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by alphastryk View Post
    My thought would be that everything being discounted means everything is more powerful, and the discard spells that "become" thoughtseize / cabal therapy are probably a fine power level for this round.

    If we do decide to ban them, I've got a short list of cards (I found 6) that would be affected.
    Higher power level requires better disruption.
    That's a solid argument for not banning them.

    Who else has an opinion?
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  20. #2380

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Higher power level requires better disruption.
    That's a solid argument for not banning them.

    Who else has an opinion?
    I think the reason to ban them is that it's not very interesting for every match to go WL from Thoughtseize being dominant. Maybe there's enough counter-play. I haven't though about it thoroughly.

    I think there are three tiers of 1B discard:
    Agonizing Remorse, Addle, Lay Bare the Heart
    Mesmeric Fiend
    Brain Maggot and Kitesail Freebooter (only Duress anyway), which are weaker to instant speed removal.

    My vote is to ditch them all, but I'm guessing it's probably okay either way.

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