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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #641
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Round 1 of 4CB Season 2 has started: Vintage Bannathon!

    Welcome to the second season of Four Card Blind. This season, we play 12 rounds of Vintage Bannathon.

    How the Bannathon works:
    Barring Unglued, Unhinged, conspiracy and ante cards, everything is unbanned at the start of the season.
    (Note: Chaos Orb is considered a random effect and will destroy your own board but not affect the opponent's board. So it's legal, but pointless.)
    After each round, we ban all cards from top scoring decks. This will work as follows:
    - If a round has 12 or more participants, all cards from the top 5 scoring decks get banned for future rounds.
    - If a round has 8, 9, 10 or 11 participants, all cards from the top 4 scoring decks get banned for future rounds.
    - If a round has 7 or less participants, all cards from the top 3 scoring decks get banned for future rounds.
    In this way, the banned list grows with each round, changing the meta, making new strategies viable. Keeping every round fresh.

    Season point scoring:
    One other thing we will change for season 2 is the season scoring. Last season, the top 4 scored season points Formula 1 style.
    This season, all players score season points for all rounds they play. Season points for each round equal total points scored for the round, divided by the number of opponents in that round.
    The tournament organizer will make calculations (or have Google Spreadsheet figure that stuff out) and keep track of standings below. Note: season points are rounded to one decimal.

    I will create a Google Spreadsheet again, and make it publicly editable, so everyone can see it and enter their scores.

    So, let's get this thing started!
    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 1, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 17th of April, at 6:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time. Just send me the deck Tuesday evening latest, you'll be fine).

    PLEASE NOTE:
    - The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Goblin Guide, Mogg Fanatic, Pithing Needle, Cavern of Souls (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S02R01 in the topic. Many of you already did this for previous rounds. Thanks a lot, this really saves me the time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
    - The banned list (you'll find it in the second post). As mentioned, this season we play a Bannathon. For round 1 only Unglued and stuff like that is banned. Still, keep an eye on what you send in.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Happy deck designing everybody, and enjoy you Lotusses! (While they last. )


    PS. This is going to be EPIC!!!

  2. #642

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    For those who are curious, since Shahrazad is legal, it just halves both players' life totals because each player loses due to being unable to draw a starting hand of 7 cards. (CB rules do not apply to subgames.)

    Probably won't be relevant, but someone was bound to ask.

  3. #643

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    For those who are curious, since Shahrazad is legal, it just halves both players' life totals because each player loses due to being unable to draw a starting hand of 7 cards. (CB rules do not apply to subgames.)

    Probably won't be relevant, but someone was bound to ask.
    I was almost that guy. :P But I figured that CB rules would apply, and that there would be no losing to not being able to draw (to 4 cards - the oracle text says "initial hand size"). Your ruling is fine with me though.

  4. #644

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Whoshim View Post
    I was almost that guy. :P But I figured that CB rules would apply, and that there would be no losing to not being able to draw (to 4 cards - the oracle text says "initial hand size"). Your ruling is fine with me though.
    Quote Originally Posted by oracle text
    Players play a Magic subgame, using their libraries as their decks. Each player who doesn’t win the subgame loses half their life, rounded up.
    Not sure what Oracle text you are referring to...

  5. #645

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Not sure what Oracle text you are referring to...
    Sorry, I meant the rulings part.:

    At the start of the sub-game both players draw their initial hand (usually 7 cards). If one player has fewer cards than required, that player loses. If both have fewer than required, both players lose.
    That goes with the 4CB rules on the first page of this thread:

    - You don't lose the game for having to draw a card when you can't (obviously), rest stays the same as in regular MtG, so f.i. if a card ends up in your library, you will draw it next draw step.
    But, anyway, I don't think it really matters. I am perfectly fine with your ruling.

  6. #646
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    (CB rules do not apply to subgames.)
    Actually, I'm not sure about this, but it doesn't matter.

    In the Shahrazad subgame, nobody will have wincons. To prevent the life loss, you need to win the subgame, and nobody can, so even if the 4CB rulings apply, every subgame will end in a draw, unless somebody manages to get a Dryad Arbor or so into their deck before Shahrazad resolves. That's a VERY overelaborate way to cause somebody to lose half their life. You could also just attack with a Dreadnought or something.


    Update about round 1 of season 2: we have 5 entries so far, with about 44 hours until the deadline.
    Also, really awesome decks already!
    Last edited by Asthereal; 04-15-2019 at 07:41 AM.

  7. #647
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    About 20 hours until the deadline, and we're at 8 participants. Don't miss out!
    Last edited by Asthereal; 04-16-2019 at 08:08 AM.

  8. #648
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Slight update: I'm waiting on a message to clear up a small thing from one of the submissions. I expect to post decks this afternoon.

    This means that you can still send in a deck, if you want. If you PM me your deck before I post the decks for round one, I will include it.

  9. #649
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    DECKS FOR ROUND 1 OF THE VINTAGE BANNATHON

    1. Asthereal (TO): Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Sea Drake, Black Lotus
    2. Wrath of Pie: Mishra's Workshop, Steel Overseer, Phyrexian Metamorph, Force of Will
    3. FTW: Chancellor of the Annex, Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe
    4. Tylert: Leyline of anticipation, Lotus petal, burning inquiry, nether spirit
    5. Ace/Homebrew: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Cabal Therapy, Butcher Ghoul
    6. Whoshim: Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe, Force of Will
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Balance, The Rack
    8. H: Black Lotus, Patron Wizard, Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation
    9. apple713: Leyline of Anticipation, Force of Will, Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac

    Or should I say "Round Lab Man Ban".

    Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
    I have created a new public Google Spreadsheet for the season: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    You can enter your scores there as well, if you like. If you don't, I will, because I'm too lazy to calculate season points myself.

    Note for the Bannathon:
    With 9 participants, the top-4 scoring decks for this round will be banned.
    So if you want to start brewing for round 2 already, keep that in mind.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 04-17-2019 at 10:28 AM.

  10. #650
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Asthereal scores for round "ban lab man":

    1. Asthereal (TO): that's me, somewhat uninspiredly sporting FoW.dec (Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Sea Drake, Black Lotus)
    2. Wrath of Pie: FoW your Fow or Meta. Sea Drake races Overseer. 6-0
    3. FTW: OTP I play Lotus into Annex tax and then Force your combo but can't cast Drake anymore. OTD I just die. 1-4
    4. Tylert: FoW Petal, Sea Drake beats. 6-0
    5. Ace/Homebrew: FoW Lotus, Sea Drake beats. 6-0
    6. Whoshim: You FoW my FoW. Lab Man races Drake. 0-6
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: FoW Lotus, Sea Drake beats. 6-0
    8. H: You can't use Leyline. OTP Drake lands before Patron and races it. OTD Patron could counter my Drake, but only if you don't attack, so it's a draw. 4-1
    9. apple713: You FoW my FoW. Lab Man races Drake. 0-6

    Total: 29 points

    Also, why oh why did I play Sea Drake over Lab Man? Probably because I am not a smart man.
    Also also, if the mods find this thread and apply rules about double-posting, I'm surely getting a forum ban. This is my fifth post in a row.
    Last edited by Asthereal; 04-18-2019 at 08:23 AM.

  11. #651
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    FTW: Chancellor of the Annex, Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe

    1. Asthereal (TO): OTP I play Lab Man. Annex stops FoW. OTD you can burn Lotus into Annex to have FoW live to stop me and we draw. WD. 4-1.
    2. Wrath of Pie: OTP I win with Lab Man and Annex stops FoW. OTD you play Workshop into Overseer. Workshop can't pay the Annex tax, but it lets you FoW my Lotus to draw. WD. 4-1
    4. Tylert: Chancellor stops you. Lab Man wins. WW. 6-0
    5. Ace/Homebrew: Chancellor counters Lotus. Lab Man wins. WW 6-0.
    6. Whoshim: OTP I play Lab Man and Probe. Annex stops FoW. OTD you can burn Probe on Chancellor and then cast Lotus -> Lab Man, but then I play Lab Man (you don't have FoW) and Probe to win first. Therefore you must burn Lotus into Chancellor and save FoW to counter me to draw. WD 4-1.
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Chancellor counters Lotus. Lab Man wins. WW 6-0.
    8. H: You can't resolve a threat, but you can force two draws by revealing Leyline, burning Lotus on Chancellor, and then Forcing my Lotus. DD 2-2.
    9. apple713: You can't resolve a threat, but you can force two draws by revealing Leyline, burning Lotus on Chancellor, and then Forcing my Lotus. DD 2-2.

    Total points: 34 (9 wins, 7 draws)

    I assume we're banning Black Lotus and Lab Man lol.

    Edit: Workshop can't pay Chancellor tax so I don't lose any.
    Last edited by FTW; 04-17-2019 at 11:07 AM.

  12. #652
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I assume we're banning Black Lotus and Lab Man lol.
    Assuming they reach top-4 this round.

    Also, the new Google Spreadsheet is live: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

  13. #653

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    GoblinSmashmaster scores for round "ban lab man":

    1. Asthereal (TO): You counter Lotus. 0-6
    2. Wrath of Pie: You counter Lotus. 0-6
    3. FTW: You counter Lotus. 0-6
    4. Tylert: Whoever plays a mana source first loses (e.g. if you play Petal, I respond with Lotus and cast my hand before you, and The Rack outraces Nether Spirit. If I play Lotus, you respond with Petal and cast your hand before me). We both do nothing and draw. 2-2
    5. Ace/Homebrew: Whoever plays a mana source first loses. We both do nothing and draw. 2-2
    6. Whoshim: You counter Lotus. 0-6
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: That's me!
    8. H: You counter Lotus. 0-6
    9. apple713: You counter Lotus. 0-6

    Total: 4 points

    Wow that's a lot of countermagic. I think I would beat just about any deck that didn't have Force, Leyline or Chancellor but everyone did! That's what I get for using a deck idea that was already spoiled.

  14. #654
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    How did I forget that Chancellor of the Annex exists? Because I'm stupid, that's how, haha.

    H: Black Lotus, Patron Wizard, Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation

    1. Asthereal (TO): (Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Sea Drake, Black Lotus)
    Yeah, I don't think putting out Leyline in a Force of Will matchup will generally be good, need it for Force Fodder so I can resolve my threat. I think we trade wins on the plays. 3-3


    2. Wrath of Pie: (Mishra's Workshop, Steel Overseer, Phyrexian Metamorph, Force of Will)
    If I play out Leyline, I can't Force, so, on the play, I should win by just Forcing in Lotus/Patron, since Workshop can't pay for that. On the draw, I think I lose, since I can't actually stop the Overseer. 3-3


    3. FTW: (Chancellor of the Annex, Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe)
    Yeah, totally brain fart about Chancellor here, I think I can only force draws. 2-2


    4. Tylert: (Leyline of anticipation, Lotus petal, burning inquiry, nether spirit)
    I think I win both here by just holding Leyline and Forcing Petal in both cases. 6-0


    5. Ace/Homebrew: (Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Cabal Therapy, Butcher Ghoul)
    Sort of the same here, I think I win if I hold on to Leyline, and Force Lotus. 6-0


    6. Whoshim: (Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe, Force of Will)
    Same as other Force decks, I think, I win on the play, lose on the Draw. 3-3


    7. GoblinSmashmaster: (Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Balance, The Rack)
    The deck I had in mind to beat, I think Force on Lotus carries the day here. 6-0


    8. H: Bye, myself.


    9. apple713: (Leyline of Anticipation, Force of Will, Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac)
    I think this is the same case as other Force decks, I win on the play, lose on the draw. 3-3

    32, I think? Unless I made more stupid errors...
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  15. #655
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by GoblinSmashmaster View Post
    Total: 4 points

    Wow that's a lot of countermagic. I think I would beat just about any deck that didn't have Force, Leyline or Chancellor but everyone did! That's what I get for using a deck idea that was already spoiled.
    Still better than sitting this round out, as you are to receive half a season point for your efforts.
    New method for season point calculation doing its thing already.

  16. #656

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    2. Wrath of Pie: Mishra's Workshop, Steel Overseer, Phyrexian Metamorph, Force of Will

    1. Asthereal (TO): Force of Will, Mental Misstep, Sea Drake, Black Lotus LL
    3. FTW: Chancellor of the Annex, Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe DL - On the play, I feed Overseer to the Channex tax so I can force your Lotus.
    4. Tylert: Leyline of anticipation, Lotus petal, burning inquiry, nether spirit WW
    5. Ace/Homebrew: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Cabal Therapy, Butcher Ghoul WW
    6. Whoshim: Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe, Force of Will LL
    7. GoblinSmashmaster: Leyline of Anticipation, Black Lotus, Balance, The Rack WW
    8. H: Black Lotus, Patron Wizard, Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation WD - Patron Seer can never attack when I am on the draw, otherwise I win the race with Overseer.
    9. apple713: Leyline of Anticipation, Force of Will, Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac LL

    7w2d = 23

    Funny how I am the only one who played a land.

  17. #657
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    8. H: Black Lotus, Patron Wizard, Force of Will, Leyline of Anticipation WD - Patron Seer can never attack when I am on the draw, otherwise I win the race with Overseer.
    But the thing is, when you are on the Draw, there isn't a way for you to resolve Overseer once I have Patron Wizard out (Mishra's Workshop mana can't pay for that "tax").
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  18. #658

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    H, I don't think you win on the play vs. me (I haven't checked about other Force decks).

    6. Whoshim: (Black Lotus, Laboratory Maniac, Gitaxian Probe, Force of Will)
    Same as other Force decks, I think, I win on the play, lose on the Draw. 3-3

    If you keep Leyline in hand to Force my Force, you can play your Patron Wizard. However, you can never attack with it. So it should be a draw when you are on the play. I win when I am on the play.

  19. #659
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Opponent OTP OTD Explanation
    1. Asthereal (TO) *Force of Will,*Mental Misstep,*Sea Drake,*Black Lotus W W Lab man Sticks
    2. Wrath of Pie *Mishra's Workshop,*Steel Overseer,*Phyrexian Metamorph,*Force of Will W W Lab man Sticks
    3. FTW *Chancellor of the Annex,*Black Lotus,*Laboratory Maniac,*Gitaxian Probe D D See his explanation
    4. Tylert *Leyline of anticipation,*Lotus petal,*burning inquiry,*nether spirit W W Force Inquiry
    5. Ace/Homebrew *Leyline of Anticipation,*Black Lotus,*Cabal Therapy,*Butcher Ghoul W W Force lotus
    6. Whoshim *Black Lotus,*Laboratory Maniac,*Gitaxian Probe,*Force of Will W L Leyline vs gitaxian, it doesn’t matter since we pitch them to FOW.
    7. GoblinSmashmaster *Leyline of Anticipation,*Black Lotus,*Balance,*The Rack W W Force Lotus
    8. H *Black Lotus,*Patron Wizard,*Force of Will,*Leyline of Anticipation W D I agree with Whoshim "If you keep Leyline in hand to Force my Force, you can play your Patron Wizard. However, you can never attack with it. So it should be a draw when you are on the play. I win when I am on the play."
    9. apple713 *Leyline of Anticipation,*Force of Will,*Black Lotus,*Laboratory Maniac X X
    Total Points: 39
    Win: 81.25%

    I went with Leyline over Gitaxian because I expected more taxing decks like sphere of resistance / Lodestone golem things since Mishra's Workshop was available. I could always force 1 but if someone ever cast 2 in one turn I'd be screwed. So leyline lab man into play before an opponent can cast either. I also prefer to have leyline banned instead of gitaxian probe.

    Although we still need Ace and Tyler to confirm their scores and hash out some other details this is the tentative banned list for Round 2.

    Black Lotus
    Laboratory Maniac
    Force of Will
    Leyline of Anticipation
    Chancellor of the Annex
    Patron Wizard
    Gitaxian Probe
    Play 4 Card Blind!

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  20. #660
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    But the thing is, when you are on the Draw, there isn't a way for you to resolve Overseer once I have Patron Wizard out (Mishra's Workshop mana can't pay for that "tax").
    Yes he can't resolve a threat but how do you actually win the game with Patron Wizard? It's basically a wall. If it ever attacks, opponent casts his spell and wins. You have to never attack and leave it up to counter, so those games are draws. You have no way to deal damage.

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