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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #81
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    Great example of a deck that looks really good on paper, but is actually not so good.
    The main reason: what do you do when your opponent decides not to play anything?
    Also, it loses to Mishra's Factory + other land, and Taiga, 3x Kird Ape.
    So when you sport this deck, all you can expect is draws and losses.
    Okay fine:
    Shivan Gorge
    Volcanic Island
    City of Traitors
    Energy Field

  2. #82
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    That's a nice one!

    If you would like to join for real, send me a PM with your deck.
    You have until Tuesday evening (-ish, depending in time zones) to send something in.

  3. #83
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    As long as Duress is legal any all in decks will only win half their matches
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  4. #84
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    As long as Duress is legal any all in decks will only win half their matches
    This was the biggest factor in how I built my deck, actually. Discard, and to a smaller extent land destruction, are going to be defining elements of this format.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  5. #85
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    As long as Duress is legal any all in decks will only win half their matches
    I mean that's fine, it's just that Shivan Gorge has never been reprinted down to activation cost so I can't run Nephalia Academy

  6. #86
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I mean that's fine, it's just that Shivan Gorge has never been reprinted down to activation cost so I can't run Nephalia Academy
    *Ahem* {pushes up nerd glasses}

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    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  7. #87

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    We played a 5 people tournament yesterday, only with OldSchool pool (ABU, Arabian, Legends, Antiquities, The Dark) and with the Lotus banned. I won with:
    - Mox Pearl
    - Mox Emerald
    - Balance
    - The Rack

    For the next one the moxen and The rack will be banned...

  8. #88
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    This was the biggest factor in how I built my deck, actually. Discard, and to a smaller extent land destruction, are going to be defining elements of this format.
    We'll see. I think chalice shows that's it's super mean from Hanni's; so I also considered Chalice -> beats any 0-1 drop reliant deck when its on the play. Difficult to avoid discard, chalice, unburial rites, and land destruction at the same time; so the format will self-regulate a bit I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    I mean that's fine, it's just that Shivan Gorge has never been reprinted down to activation cost so I can't run Nephalia Academy
    I love that threads like this help me find weird stuff I missed on my hiatus. That card seems playable; though maybe it's garbage haha

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    We played a 5 people tournament yesterday, only with OldSchool pool (ABU, Arabian, Legends, Antiquities, The Dark) and with the Lotus banned. I won with:
    - Mox Pearl
    - Mox Emerald
    - Balance
    - The Rack

    For the next one the moxen and The rack will be banned...
    ̶F̶u̶n̶n̶y̶ ̶e̶n̶o̶u̶g̶h̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶y̶ ̶d̶i̶d̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶p̶e̶o̶p̶l̶e̶ ̶r̶u̶n̶ ̶C̶h̶a̶l̶i̶c̶e̶?̶ ̶C̶h̶a̶l̶i̶c̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶ ̶0̶ ̶s̶e̶e̶m̶s̶ ̶g̶r̶e̶a̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶v̶i̶n̶t̶a̶g̶e̶;̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶u̶s̶a̶b̶l̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶l̶e̶g̶a̶c̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶l̶o̶c̶k̶ ̶m̶o̶s̶t̶ ̶s̶t̶r̶a̶t̶e̶g̶i̶e̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶v̶o̶i̶d̶ ̶1̶-̶d̶r̶o̶p̶s̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶u̶s̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶L̶E̶D̶ ̶o̶r̶ ̶L̶o̶t̶u̶s̶
    Derp!
    Last edited by tescrin; 02-15-2019 at 11:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  9. #89

  10. #90

    Re: 4 Card Blind



    this is easily my favorite submission I've seen

    the best part is that it can make it non-deterministic

    Edit: I didn't read the random rule. DISAPPOINTING
    Last edited by taconaut; 02-15-2019 at 11:53 AM.

  11. #91
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Both your red and black engines leave you with a 2/1, so I guess that's good.
    I mused:

    City of Traitors
    Simian Spirit Guide
    Seething Song


    or

    Swamp
    Memnite
    Culling the Weak


    But again, all in decks are exactly that, so good luck OTD
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  12. #92
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    That's awesome! But wait...

    Random effects are always in favor of the opponent.
    So doesn't every coin flip you do become tails and every coin flip your opponent does come up heads?
    So effectively you manage to kill yourself on turn one? In which case optimal play dictates you play nothing...

    Sometimes this game is a tad less fun than you'd expect.

  13. #93

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by tescrin View Post
    Funny enough, why didn't people run Chalice? Chalice on 0 seems great in vintage; and usable in legacy to block most strategies that avoid 1-drops by using LED or Lotus
    I don't think you understood my post.

  14. #94
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by guillemnicolau View Post
    I don't think you understood my post.
    oh whoops, I forgot about OS. Derp
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  15. #95

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    That's awesome! But wait...

    Random effects are always in favor of the opponent.
    So doesn't every coin flip you do become tails and every coin flip your opponent does come up heads?
    So effectively you manage to kill yourself on turn one? In which case optimal play dictates you play nothing...

    Sometimes this game is a tad less fun than you'd expect.
    And the loop may be stopped before someone loose : opponent heads, me twice heads... Opponent's turn.

  16. #96
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by PapriNgomo View Post
    And the loop may be stopped before someone loose : opponent heads, me twice heads... Opponent's turn.
    Not in Four Card Blind. The coin flips aren't actually played.
    Every random effect just works as much in favor to the opponent as possible.

    So if you cast Mana Clash, your coin flips are always going to be tails, and his are always heads.
    So Mana Clash can only end when the caster has died.
    In 4CB we play the optimal line for every player, and casting Mana Clash is suicide, so not optimal.
    So in conclusion: you won't ever cast Mana Clash. Which is sad, because it would have been funny.

  17. #97
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    23 participants and counting, and I see we've forgotten to ban a few cards.
    That's okay. We'll discuss it after I post all the decks on Wednesday.

  18. #98

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    23 participants and counting, and I see we've forgotten to ban a few cards.
    That's okay. We'll discuss it after I post all the decks on Wednesday.
    :)

  19. #99
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    @Asthereal

    Do both players start the game with hands revealed?
    -rob

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    @Asthereal

    Do both players start the game with hands revealed?
    The decks are played with full known information and the most optimal lines taken. If, for example, you look at a deck with City of Traitors + Chalice of the Void; let's say "Hanni" since he was the first to post it

    Let's say he faces
    2x LED
    1x Unburial
    1x fatty

    In this case when he goes first he'll set chalice on 0

    but if he faces the kird ape/bolt/raze deck he'll set the chalice on 1. This is determined by the community around the 21st (?) when all the decks are posted and the most optimal lines of every deck vs every other deck are discovered/validated. Then the wins and draws points are handed out based on those most-optimal play-lines

    Quote Originally Posted by from first post

    The games go as follows
    - You start with all four cards from your deck in your opening hand, and play from there.
    *snip*
    - Every player always plays optimally. If anyone finds a better line, that line is played.

    Example
    John sends in this deck: Taiga, Kird Ape, Lightning Bolt, Raze
    Sarah sends in this deck: Sandstone Needle, City of Traitors, Boldwyr Heavyweights, Aftershock (actually, this was my first ever 4CB deck )
    This looks like John's in trouble, because the Heavyweights will crush him big time, but actually, John wins this 4 to 1 because Sarah's lands are too slow.
    OTP: T1 John plays Taiga, Kird Ape, T1 Sarah plays Sandstone Needle. T2 John plays Raze and kills the Needle, after which he rides the Ape to victory.
    OTD: T1 Sarah plays Needle, T1 John cannot allow her to add a City and cast the Heavyweights, so he just goes Taiga, Raze the Needle and it's a draw because no one can cast anything anymore.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

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