I would like to point out the fact that that Nip has Lifelink and BitterBlossom has an upkeep cost of minus life so it’ll probably affect some of the matches.
Also, I’m surprised that no one decided to play land, mutavault, devoted druid, creakwood Leige since 3/3s are better than 1/1s.
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Legacy: Dark Depths
EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid
Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi
why cards are so expensive...hoarders
Thoughtseize just wrecks that though. Thoughtseize is also fantastic vs the Nip.
TS absolutely warped the meta.
I'd personally like another Block Tour where we ban some of the (now known) meta-warping stuff.
As for this round, it really is complicated and I have a really hard time abstracting this out. Might need to break out the actual cards when I get home...
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
You on the draw:
BB: Swamp, Thoughtseize Stalwart (BB @ 18)
H: Plains, Tactician 1
BB: Mutavault, Bitterblossom
H: Tactician 2
BB: Faerie token 1 (BB @ 17)
If you attack with Tactician 1 and put a counter on it, it trades with Mutavault and then Bitterblossom tokens eventually overwhelm you, thus you hold back.
H: Do nothing
BB: Faerie token 2 (BB @ 16), attack with token 1 (H @ 19) eot counter on Tactician 1
Same problem again: token plus Mutavault trade with a 3/3 Tactician, so you have to hold back again.
H: Do nothing
BB: Faerie token 3 (BB @ 15), attack with tokens 1 and 2 (H @ 17), eot counter on Tactician 1
You can finally attack with Tactician 1, but it just gets chumped forever, and by the time Tactician 2 is relevant, there are just too many Faerie tokens for you to deal with, so you lose on the draw.
On the play you are definitely too fast to handle.
You definitely lose on the draw, so the interesting question is whether you can sneak out a win on the play.
GS: Plains, Tactician
BB: Swamp, Thoughtseize Stalwart (BB @ 18)
GS: Harrier, attack with Tactician (BB @ 17)
BB: Mutavault, Bitterblossom
GS: Counter on Harrier, Attack with Harrier (BB @ 15)
BB: Faerie token 1 (BB @ 14)
If you attack with Harrier here, it trades with Mutavault + token, and Tactician loses to Bitterblossom, so you have to hold back.
GS: Do nothing
BB: Faerie token 2 (BB @ 13), counter on Harrier
This seems familiar...
GS: Do nothing
BB: Faerie token 3 (BB @ 12), attack with tokens 1 and 2 (GS @ 18), counter on Harrier (is now a 4/4 so it can attack)
GS: Attack with Harrier, blocked by Faerie token 3
BB: Faerie token 4 (BB @ 11), attack with tokens 1, 2, and Mutavault (GS @ 14), counter on Tactician
Because Tactician only trades with Mutavault with a counter, you have to let Mutavault in.
GS: Attack with Harrier, blocked by Faerie token 4
At this point Bitterblossom has a problem: Only one token per turn loses the race to two attackers, so the Bitterblossom player is forced to go wide to threaten an all-out trade with either the 4/4 Harrier or the 3/3 Tactician.
BB: Faerie token 5 (BB @ 10), no attacking to hold back Harrier
If you attack with Harrier at this point, the three Faerie tokens and Mutavault trade with it, leaving you a 3/3 Tactician, which is preferable at this point.
GS: Attack with Harrier, trade
BB: Faerie token 6 (BB @ 9)
For Bitterblossom to outrace itself, it needs two tokens able to attack, which it cannot afford at this point.
What if BB instead just focuses on defending against Harrier two more turns to maximize attacking?
BB: Faerie token 3 (BB @ 12), no attack, counter on Harrier
GS: Do nothing
BB: Faerie token 4 (BB @ 11), no attack, counter on Harrier
GS: Do nothing
BB: Faerie token 5 (BB @ 10), attack with tokens 1, 2, 3, and 4 (GS @ 16), counter on Tactician
GS: Attack with Harrier, chumped by token 5
BB: Faerie token 6 (BB @ 9), attack with tokens 1, 2, 3, 4, and Mutavualt (GS @ 10), counter on Tactician
GS: Attack with Harrier, chumped by token 6
BB: Faerie token 7 (BB @ 8), attack with tokens 1, 2, 3, and 4 (GS @ 6), counter on Tactician
At this point, you cannot win the race, because all-out attacking means you lose on the backswing, swinging with just Harrier means you only delay the inevitable, and doing nothing is not feasible for obvious reasons. Pumping Tactician instead of Harrier just enables BB to attack earlier.
Guess I lose this round of chicken. I'll post first and do the work.
FTW: Swamp, Thoughtseize, Mutavault, Bitterblossom
1. Asthereal (TO): OTP I TS your Blossom, so you TS my Blossom. Mutavaults crash into each other. OTD you could TS my TS, but then you're down 2 life and lose the Blossom mirror, so the only rational choice is to take my Blossom. DD 2-2.
2. Wrath of Pie: Even OTP I can't find a scenario where 1 Blossom beats 2 or where I can recover from TS lifeloss. You found the tech to beat the DTB. LL 0-6
3. Unlif3: Mirror again. DD 2-2
4. Tylert: TS 1 Prowler, then BB. The 2nd Prowler trades with a token somewhere, I basically ignore it. WW 6-0
5. H: OTP I win (see Wrath's post). OTD you must lead with Stalwart but I don't have to TS anything, which favors me in the race. Then you're faced with decisions about playing the 2nd Tactician (but shouldn't because you lose tempo). It's more complex than Wrath made it, but I think you still win. WL 3-3
6. GoblinSmashmaster: OTP I TS Tactician and win. OTD it's much easier than Wrath said. If you lead with Tactician, I Thoughtseize the Harrier and you can't cast Stalwart (no Kithkin in hand)! 1 Tactician/Chronomaton vs Bitterblossom was already solved before, win for me. If you lead with Stalwart, I Thoughtseize Tactician. Blossom + Mutavault beats Stalwart + Harrier. WW 6-0
7. apple713: OTP I TS Nip. You TS BB. Mutavault kills you. OTD if you play Nip I will TS Edge, so you must TS my TS. I play out Mutavault and BB and win before BB kills me. See below. WW 6-0
25 points (7 wins, 4 draws)
FTW vs apple
A - TS my TS [you=18]
F - Vault
A - Nip
F - Swamp, BB
A - Edge. Attack for 4 [you=22, me=16]
F - 1 token. Attack back with Muta for 2. [you=20, me=15]
A - Attack for 4 [you=24, me=11]
F - 2nd token. Hold on defense [me=10]
Now if you attack, your guy trades wth 2 tokens + Vault, so I always leave 2 tokens back.
A - Pass
F - 3rd token. Attack with 1. [me=9, you=23]
A - Pass
F - 4th token. Attack with 2 [me=8, you=21]
A - Pass
F - 5th token. Attack with 3 [me=7, you=18]
A - Pass
F - 6th token. Attack with 4 [me=6, you=14]
A - Pass
F - 7th token. Attack with 5 [me=5, you=9]
A - Pass
F - 8th token. Attack with 6 [me=4, you=3]
A - Attack with 4/4 to gain life. I trade with Muta + 2 tokens, down to 6 tokens again. [you=7]
F - 7th token. Attack with 6 [me=3, you=1]
A - Pass
F - 8th token. Attack with 7. [me=2, you=-6]
If you attacked earlier, you still lose the same turn. The +4 life just happens earlier instead of later.
I also considered the obvious combo: Sapseep Forest, Mutavault, Devoted Druid, Quillspike (infinity/infinity)
OTP and OTD it outsizes the Tactician decks, the dork + aura decks, and generic aggro. The problem is this LL to Thoughtseize on Druid. The same happens to your Liege deck. Thoughtseize invalidates midrange strategies and combo, so you're stuck with triple threat or Blossom decks.
I think we can all agree Bitterblossom math is awful.
Also I am clearly not good at reading cards, that would have made it a million times simpler to figure out the match vs. GoblinSmashmaster.
For H and Goblinsmashmaster:
I remade the math and here is my thinking of how our matches should go.
Please tell me if you agree:
6. H: OTP: I'll never bock, this is not profitable for me. T1 = Mutavault. Plains Stalwart.
T2 = Swamp Prowler. Attack for 2 (18), tactician
T3 = Prowler. Attack for 1 (19) (you discard tactician).
You choose to pump every turn: Attack for 3 (15)
T4 = I attack for 8 (11). Attack for 4 (11)
T5 = I attack for 8 (3). Attack for 4 (7)
T6 = I kill you
- Staying in defense with tactitian won't work (i deal 6 unblockable to you each turn) so you can choose to pump tactician a bit to block Mutavault: Attack for 2 (16). tactician = 2/2
T4 = I attack for 8 (11), you attack for 2 (14)
T5 = I attack for 6 (5). EOT you pump Stalwart. you attack for 3 (11)
T6 = I attack for 6 you are dead.
- If you choose to not discard tactician, you'll end up using one turn to cast him and i'll still have you on the same clock (The chump on mutavault at some point will be the same loss of damage for me than discarding tactician)
So it looks as if i win this one (I don't see how changing gears at some point in one of those two scenarios will help you winning).
OTD: T1 = plains, stalwart. Mutavault
T2 = tactician, attack for 2 (18). Swamp, prowler.
T3 = Attack for 3 (15). Prowler attack for 3 (17)
T4 = Attack for 4 (11). Attack for 8 (11)
T5 = Attack for 5 (6). Attack for 6 (5)
T6 = Attack for 6, chump with mutavault. attack for 3 (2)
T7 = attack for 7 chump with prowler. Attack for 3 reduced to 1 (1)
T8 = I die.
Choosing to block at any point before doesn't seem productive either.
so 3-3
7. GoblinSmashmaster: OTD: T1 = Mutavault, Plains stalwart
T2 = Swamp prowler. Attack for 2 (18).
- If you play tactician, and choose to discard harrier at some point, it's the same scenario than for H. I win.
- If you choose to play harrier, you'll have a 2/2 vs my 2/2 and 1 3/1. i win.
- If you choose to play tactician and then harrier, you can't use both, and you'll loose one turn to deploy the second one. As both previous lines are a loss for you, I don't see how this is going to be better.
OTP: I think it's somehow the same math as above. Can't block profitably, and you are one turn ahead. you win.
Same maths as with H. 3-3
Props to FTW for their calculations :'D
My votes
1. B2
2. B1.
3. A2
4. A1
I'd enjoy touring more blocks. Newer blocks had fewer oppressive cards, more controlled mana acceleration, and power creep in creatures, which could make the format more interesting. The older sets seem more degenerate. I don't think bans are explicitly needed because there should be few dangerous cards left anyway.
The crown for this third season ended up being somewhat anitclimactic when FTW and I managed to send in the exact same deck.
Also, adding the Shadowmoor block to Lorwyn made no difference at all. It looke dfun on paper, but Lorwyn block just has the better cards.
Still, a number in noteworthy things happened:
Wrath of Pie chose best, adding double Bitterblossom to his 4, taking the round in style and dealing a serious blow in the struggle for 3rd place.
The fight for place 5 was also interesting, where Unlif3 again scored strongly, but H also had a solid round, ending the fight for top 5 in his favor.
Preliminary standings for the final round of the season
Rank. Player: score - SP
1. Wrath of Pie: 33 - 4,7
2. Asthereal (TO): 25 - 3,6
2. Unlif3: 25 - 3,6
2. FTW: 25 - 3,6
5. H: 20 - 2,9
6. GoblinSmashmaster: 11 - 1,6
7. Tylert: 14 - 2,0
8. apple713: 5 - 0,7
Which leads to the following final standings:
1. Asthereal (TO): 45,5
2. FTW: 40,3
3. Wrath of Pie: 35,8
4. GoblinSmashmaster: 33,3
5. Unlif3: 23,4
6. H: 23,1
7. Whoshim: 17,3
8. Tylert: 17,2
9. BirdsOfParadise: 6,3
10. apple713: 3,5
News on Season 4
I'm working on setting up season 4. The votes so far are clear: we will continue the Block Tour.
Right now, the "No bannings" version has a strong lead in the votes, so we'll probably continue what we were doing already.
For those who have not voted yet, you can still do so, BUT ONLY FOR OR AGAINST USING A BANNED LIST.
More news to follow shortly.
Last edited by Asthereal; 10-07-2019 at 08:30 AM.
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More news on Season 4
As the Block Tour was a success and many of you voted to continue the tour, I've been building something fun.
I ran out of blocks with one main set and two expansions because the last five blocks were just two sets, and I think that's too small.
So I've decided to combine those, just like we had in the finale of season 3. There were five of those out, so I chose to drop the last one.
This left me with three rounds, which I chose to fill with the unofficial Guild of Ravnica block, a Core set block and some awesome Modern Masters.
The next season wil look as follows:
Round 1. Alara block (Shards of Alara, Conflux, Alara Reborn)
Round 2. Zendikar block (Zendikar, Worldwake, Rise of the Eldrazi)
Round 3. Scars of Mirrodin block (Scars of Mirrodin, Mirrodin Besieged, New Phyrexia)
Round 4. Innistrad block (Innistrad, Dark Ascension, Avacyn Restored)
Round 5. Return to Ravnica block (Return to Ravnica, Gatecrash, Dragon's Maze)
Round 6. Modern Core "block" (Magic Origins, Core Set 2019, Core Set 2020)
Round 7. Theros block (Theros, Born of the Gods, Journey into Nyx)
Round 8. Khans of Tarkir block (Khans of Tarkir, Fate Reforged, Dragons of Tarkir)
Round 9. Battle for Zendikar & Shadows over Innistrad block (Battle for Zendikar, Oath of the Gatewatch, Shadows over Innistrad, Eldritch Moon)
Round 10. Kaladesh & Amonkhet block (Kaladesh, Aether Revolt, Amonkhet, Hour of Devastation)
Round 11. (unofficial) Guilds of Ravnica block (Guilds of Ravnica, Ravnica Allegiance, War of the Spark)
Round 12 (finale). Modern Masters (Modern Masters, Modern Masters 2015, Modern Masters 2017)
This should make for a fun season, I think.
I'll be updating the first post of the thread, and create my own deck.
As soon as it's all done, I'll post here again to open the season and start round one.
NOTE: We'll play without bannings, as that version got the most votes.
Last edited by Asthereal; 10-05-2019 at 01:14 PM.
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Time for a new season! This season we'll go for part two of the Block Tour. So here we go!
Round 1 of 4CB Season 4, The Block Tour - part 2, has started. For this round we shall play Alara block (Shards of Alara, Conflux, Alara Reborn)!
I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 1, so you can start sending me your decks.
DEADLINE: Wednesday the 9nd of October, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
(That's my time. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night at midnight-ish, so keep that in mind.)
PLEASE NOTE:
The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
Please send your deck as follows: Plains, Island, Aven Squire, Sighted-Caste Sorcerer (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S04R01 in the topic. Many of you already did this for previous rounds. Thanks a lot, this really saves me the time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.
Happy deck designing everybody!
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Hey, sorry I missed checking my scores for a round and missed the following round. I have been sick for the last week. However, even without the sickness, I don't know if I can keep up with my new schedule. Have a good one, and I may pop in from time to time for fun!
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