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Thread: 4 Card Blind

  1. #1701
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    About 24 hours until the deadline, and we're at two entries. Two.
    What's up, guys? Tired of 4CB? Do you think modern isn't a fun format?
    Or do you just need time to figure out what to play?
    I don't play Modern as a format in general. I keep starting with synergies I like from the Legacy card pool and then have to ask myself "are all these Modern legal?" and "is one on the banlist already?".

    The mana sucks in Modern. I don't understand how Modern players are supposed to have fun. No wonder they all left for Pioneer.

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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    The mana sucks in Modern. I don't understand how Modern players are supposed to have fun. No wonder they all left for Pioneer.
    I don't disagree, but the mana is worse in Pioneer.

    To me, in a nut-shell, the "issue" with Legacy is that "answers" are "too good" and in Modern "answers" aren't "good enough."

    In the long-term, I think Pioneer will end up at the same place Modern is now, and for the same reason, but it will take time (just like it did for Modern) because "threats" simply haven't fully exhausted the limited scope of answers, wholesale, just yet. Just like Modern had to be "rebooted" as Pioneer, so will Pioneer need a reboot at some point in the future.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  3. #1703

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I don't disagree, but the mana is worse in Pioneer.

    To me, in a nut-shell, the "issue" with Legacy is that "answers" are "too good" and in Modern "answers" aren't "good enough."

    In the long-term, I think Pioneer will end up at the same place Modern is now, and for the same reason, but it will take time (just like it did for Modern) because "threats" simply haven't fully exhausted the limited scope of answers, wholesale, just yet. Just like Modern had to be "rebooted" as Pioneer, so will Pioneer need a reboot at some point in the future.
    Good old planned obsolescence.

    Modern 4CB is actually fairly powerful, it just has less fast mana. All the good fair threats are Modern-legal, so that should not be a problem.

  4. #1704
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I don't play Modern as a format in general. I keep starting with synergies I like from the Legacy card pool and then have to ask myself "are all these Modern legal?" and "is one on the banlist already?".

    The mana sucks in Modern. I don't understand how Modern players are supposed to have fun. No wonder they all left for Pioneer.
    To me, Modern is mostly ruined by Wizards not understanding their own format.
    Every time something dominates, I like to create something cool to beat it.
    But no, Wizards would rather just ban everything all the time. Impatient people...
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  5. #1705
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    To me, Modern is mostly ruined by Wizards not understanding their own format.
    Every time something dominates, I like to create something cool to beat it.
    But no, Wizards would rather just ban everything all the time. Impatient people...
    Well, if the meta was just [Deck] and [Counter-Deck] that is well and good. The issue, of course, like the old Affinity-meta of the Standard-of-yore shows us, just having a deck that beats the "best deck" doesn't make an actual winning deck. Because not everyone is on the "best deck" for all sorts of reasons.

    So, to use a physics analogy, we don't have a "clearly solvable" two-body problem, we have (in Modern) something more like a thirty-body problem where each body isn't even a known quantity and the interactions of bodies isn't even vaguely deterministic (as far as we could tell).

    See, here in X-CB we have the same X-Body problem of "the meta" but at least the interactions are deterministic.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
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  6. #1706

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    To me, Modern is mostly ruined by Wizards not understanding their own format.
    Every time something dominates, I like to create something cool to beat it.
    But no, Wizards would rather just ban everything all the time. Impatient people...
    This is actually the new philosophy, caused in part by being dependent on the fact the paper game is still important. Because they can't simply modify cards like the online-only games can, the only option left is aggressive bannings. They also have to act quickly, because said online-only games are competitors, and if Wizards wants people to keep playing Magic it has to compete with them.

    The intended real solution is for paper Magic to be based around Commander as the primary method of playing, and in fact this shift has already started, but it takes time, so until competitive Magic is all Arena all the time an aggressive banning philosophy is the weapon of choice.

  7. #1707
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    Well, if the meta was just [Deck] and [Counter-Deck] that is well and good. The issue, of course, like the old Affinity-meta of the Standard-of-yore shows us, just having a deck that beats the "best deck" doesn't make an actual winning deck. Because not everyone is on the "best deck" for all sorts of reasons.
    Sure, in Standard, where sometimes one deck will dominate big time.
    But I said I don't like Modern because of agressive bannings.
    Modern has soo many viable strategies, and adapting is much easier.

    Eldrazi kick ass? Play cheaper fatties. I played Naya Big Zoo with main deck Woolly Thoctar and Collected Company and did just fine.
    But then they banned the Eldrazi enabler and I only got to do well in two tourneys with my creation.

    But this strategy has been ruining more stuff as well. Like Legacy.
    Remember Survival of the Fittest? Literally every deck can answer that card for one mana, but before the meta got time to adapt, Survival got the axe.

    Maybe Wrath has a point in that Wizards need to look at their profit margins and don't see a better way to stay afloat, but for me as a player it's really frustrating.


    But anyway, the deadline for round 3 has passed and I'm at 4 entries. Can I expect more if I give you guys a few more hours, or shall I just post deck?
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  8. #1708
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I got distracted with that discussion. I'll submit something right now.

  9. #1709
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    I got distracted with that discussion. I'll submit something right now.
    Yeah, I can imagine.
    I'll wait for your submission and then post the decks.
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  10. #1710
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Here we go:

    DECKS FOR ROUND 3 OF SEASON 5: MODERN MADNESS

    1. Asthereal (TO): Eldrazi Temple, Eye of Ugin, Thought-Knot Seer, Thought-Knot Seer
    2. Wrath of Pie: Keldon Megaliths, Fungal Reaches, Ensnaring Bridge, Phyrexian Revoker
    3. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Ulamog's Crusher
    4. Tylert: Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Golgari Rot Farm, Elixir of Immortality
    5. FTW: Sejiri Refuge, Cavern of Souls, Meddling Mage, Phyrexian Revoker

    Please post your scores and cross-check with the opponents.
    I'll update the Google Spreadsheet for the season, so you can enter your scores there as well: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  11. #1711
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Asthereal's results for round 3:

    1. Asthereal (TO): Eldrazi Temple, Eye of Ugin, Thought-Knot Seer, Thought-Knot Seer
    That's me, with a simple entry again.
    2. Wrath of Pie: Keldon Megaliths, Fungal Reaches, Ensnaring Bridge, Phyrexian Revoker
    I'm fast enough to remove your stuff before it lands. 6-0
    3. H: Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Cloudpost, Ulamog's Crusher
    I'm fast enough to remove your stuff before it lands. 6-0
    4. Tylert: Treetop Village, Assassin's Trophy, Golgari Rot Farm, Elixir of Immortality
    I'm fast enough to remove Trophy and my team outraces the life gain. 6-0
    5. FTW: Sejiri Refuge, Cavern of Souls, Meddling Mage, Phyrexian Revoker
    OTP I get to remove Mage, OTD I don't get to cast a card. 3-3

    Total: 21 points.

    That went a lot better than I expected. But of course I should have just posted decks and not wait for FTW to stop my dominance...
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  12. #1712
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    5. FTW: Sejiri Refuge, Cavern of Souls, Meddling Mage, Phyrexian Revoker

    1. Asthereal (TO): OTP Mage names TKS and you can't play anything. OTD TKS exiles Mage first and Revoker names Spawnsire of Ulamog. WL 3-3
    2. Wrath of Pie: Mage names Ensnaring Bridge. You can't go Hellbent, turning off Megaliths. I beat down with Revoker. Even OTD you can't race. If you trade Revokers, Mage finishes. WW 6-0
    3. H: Mage names Ulamog's Crusher and the bears beat down. WW 6-0
    4. Tylert: Mage names Assassin's Trophy. Revoker names Elixir. I can outrace Treetop Village, so you leave it on defense to draw. DD 2-2

    17 points (5 wins, 2 draws)

  13. #1713
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    I'll have to take a better look later, but looks like a flat zero for me, I completely misjudged the meta.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  14. #1714
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I'll have to take a better look later, but looks like a flat zero for me, I completely misjudged the meta.
    Hmm... Bridge is a problem, Trophy, Seer and Mage too. Yeah, that's a bit sad-looking I'm afraid.
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  16. #1716
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    If the scores in the Google sheet are correct, these should be the standings for round 3.

    Rank. Player: Score - SP
    1. Asthereal (TO): 21 - 5,3
    2. FTW: 17 - 4,3
    3. Tylert: 14 - 3,5
    4. Wrath of Pie: 6 - 1,5
    5. H: 0 - 0

    Which leads to the banning of Eldrazi Temple, Eye of Ugin and Thought-Knot Seer.
    This also means I'm running away from the pack a little bit, but there's plenty of rounds to go still, so anything can happen.
    So let's see what will.


    ROUND 4 of SEASON 5: MODERN MADNESS has started.

    I have PM'ed myself my deck for round 4, so you can start sending me your decks.

    DEADLINE: Wednesday the 5th of February, at 11:00AM Central European Time.
    (That's my time zone. Pacific Time it'll probably be something like Tuesday night a bit past midnight, so keep that in mind.)

    PLEASE NOTE:
    The way you send your deck to me matters. Please send it in the way described below, so it doesn't cost me an hour of editing before I can post all the decks.
    Please send your deck as follows: Swamp, Mountain, Blightspeaker, Combust (so with card tags around each card, and not above eachother), with your Username and 4CB S05R04 in the topic.
    Many of you already do this. Thanks a lot, this really saves me a lot of time and hassle of copying and pasting text and tags!
    Don't forget to keep an eye on the banned list. It will grow every round. You'll find the banned list in the second post of the thread, or in our Google Spreadsheet.

    After the deadline has passed, I will post all decks on the forum here, and you can start puzzling out your scores.
    If you have any questions, please read the first two posts of this thread first. If you can't find the answer there, drop a message here. We'll answer a.s.a.p.

    Also, if you've been lurking on this thread and looking to join, you can step in anytime, any round. That's no problem at all. Just send me your deck before the deadline, and I'll add you to the competition.

    Happy deck designing everybody!
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  17. #1717
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    No decks sent to me yet. Don't miss out!


    Meantime, I've been thinking about cards that maybe should be (or should have been) added to the permanent banned list for Modern 4CB.
    Mana seems to be a tad slow in Modern 4CB, so perhaps Eye of Ugin deserves a mention as one the fastest mana "accellerators" so far.
    Another one would obviously be Blazing Shoal, as it enables turn 2 kills, although the combo is somewhat fragile (dies to all instant speed removal).
    Crashing Footfalls also looks like a little too much value for just one mana.

    Should anyone have additional suggestions, feel free to post them.
    I'll keep an eye on suggestions and our proceedings in the season, and create a new list after the season, should anyone still want to play 4CB Modern in the future.
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  18. #1718

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Asthereal View Post
    No decks sent to me yet. Don't miss out!


    Meantime, I've been thinking about cards that maybe should be (or should have been) added to the permanent banned list for Modern 4CB.
    Mana seems to be a tad slow in Modern 4CB, so perhaps Eye of Ugin deserves a mention as one the fastest mana "accellerators" so far.
    Another one would obviously be Blazing Shoal, as it enables turn 2 kills, although the combo is somewhat fragile (dies to all instant speed removal).
    Crashing Footfalls also looks like a little too much value for just one mana.

    Should anyone have additional suggestions, feel free to post them.
    I'll keep an eye on suggestions and our proceedings in the season, and create a new list after the season, should anyone still want to play 4CB Modern in the future.
    Crashing Footfalls is actually fine, considering that the bar for one mana is quite high in CB. Quite a few other options make two 4/4s look rather sad.

    I think if you ban Eye of Ugin you also have to ban Eldrazi Temple with it.

  19. #1719
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    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    Crashing Footfalls is actually fine, considering that the bar for one mana is quite high in CB. Quite a few other options make two 4/4s look rather sad.
    If you think so, I can remove it from my shortlist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Pie View Post
    I think if you ban Eye of Ugin you also have to ban Eldrazi Temple with it.
    I'm thinking having one should be okay. Perhaps we should ban Temple instead then?
    Can't double up on Eye of Ugin. What do you think?
    Join the 4 Card Blind competition!

  20. #1720

    Re: 4 Card Blind

    Temple would be a more effective ban to avoid double-Thought Knot hands.

    Eye of Ugin still enables the fast triple-Endless One hands, but Leyline of the Meek/3x Chancellor of the Forge is a better version of that, so Eye should be reasonable without Temple.

    Crashing Footfalls is a lot better in a format with Daze and good Sphere effects, which Modern CB is most certainly not. If they do put Daze in Modern for some weird reason, it might be worth revisiting, but the vertical growth 1-drops are generally going to be better.

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