Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 95

Thread: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

  1. #21

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
    I expect most of the decks will get a boost here. It will smooth a lot of hands.
    Especially for combo decks.

    For me the biggest negative factor is cheat/abuse deck manipulation.

    We saw plenty of magic trick last couple of years, but now with all the interaction before the game starts.
    Pre Paris Mull
    Shuffle +7
    Shuffle +6

    Paris Mull
    Shuffle +7
    Shuffle +6 +scry 1

    London Mull
    Shuffle +7
    Shuffle +6 + select a card + take your deck + put it under.

    It starts to be very sketchy
    You're allowed to put the card back in any order, so really how different is it than the current mulligan when scrying to the bottom?

  2. #22

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    Makes finding Leylines easier, although it is also effectively making you mulligan to N+1.
    This "Leylines are a mulligan" trope needs to die. If it was a dead card it wouldn't be in my deck!

    On topic: The new rule means it's safer to run multiple of them, and helps legendaries.

  3. #23
    Hymn-Slinger
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    2,239

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    This "Leylines are a mulligan" trope needs to die. If it was a dead card it wouldn't be in my deck!

    On topic: The new rule means it's safer to run multiple of them, and helps legendaries.
    What I like is that it makes the game, in theory, more playable, in the sense that it should increase the chances of a "meaningful" game. It also increases the impact of sideboard cards without changing their number, as you point out.

    While I don't like combo decks, not playing them or playing against them, I think this change would be a net-benefit for the game of Magic as whole. Bazaar in Vintage aside (because that is a "one card combo") while this increases your chance of assembling A+B, you are still critically low on resources. Which means, if you opponent takes advantage of the same mulligan rule to assemble their A+B (A being the means to cast and B being sideboard hate card), the paradigm should still be largely the same.

    While there is a chance to 'skimp' on things, taking advantage of the additional 'looks' from this rule, is that really going to, over time, lead to more wins than running more robust numbers? If it is true that being down some number of cards is a disadvantage, then I think the answer must be no.

    Might this rule offer occasional advantage to a combo deck? Yes. Will this mean combo decks become disproportionately powerful in the meta? I am highly skeptical of that.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  4. #24

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    What I like is that it makes the game, in theory, more playable, in the sense that it should increase the chances of a "meaningful" game. It also increases the impact of sideboard cards without changing their number, as you point out.

    While I don't like combo decks, not playing them or playing against them, I think this change would be a net-benefit for the game of Magic as whole. Bazaar in Vintage aside (because that is a "one card combo") while this increases your chance of assembling A+B, you are still critically low on resources. Which means, if you opponent takes advantage of the same mulligan rule to assemble their A+B (A being the means to cast and B being sideboard hate card), the paradigm should still be largely the same.

    While there is a chance to 'skimp' on things, taking advantage of the additional 'looks' from this rule, is that really going to, over time, lead to more wins than running more robust numbers? If it is true that being down some number of cards is a disadvantage, then I think the answer must be no.

    Might this rule offer occasional advantage to a combo deck? Yes. Will this mean combo decks become disproportionately powerful in the meta? I am highly skeptical of that.
    I think this is more of a problem with vintage as a whole, because of their reserved list. When you can only run one copy of a card, and we accept the amazing power of restricted cards any rule that allows you to more consistently have your one-ofs is going to make your deck better. I think as far as vintage is concerned running t0 interaction is now mandatory. I don't play vintage, but I know there's mono-brown decks. Was it mandatory before?

  5. #25
    Etherium is limited. Innovation is not.
    Hanni's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2006
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    2,620

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    This definitely benefits combo decks that can go off with a low amount of resources the most, like Reanimator and Show and Tell.

    However, this also means fair decks will very rarely have to mulligan more than once. Fair decks, especially ones that require a critical mass like Burn, will benefit a lot as well. Does making combo better nullify the gains here? I suppose that would depend upon how the metagame would adapt.
    Sligh
    Mentor Deathblade
    The Mind Harvester
    Wb Tokens
    4c Nobleblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  6. #26
    Land Destruction Enthusiast
    Megadeus's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2012
    Location

    Kennesaw, GA
    Posts

    5,444

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    I think cards that can single handedly take over a game Like Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge really gain some percentage. I don't think it's a good change, but we'll see what happens
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cheese View Post
    I've been taking shitty brews and tier 2 decks to tournaments and losing with them for years now. Welcome to the club. We meet for cocktails after round 6.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Top quality german restraint there.

    If I'm at the point where I'm rage quitting, you can bet your kransky that I'm calling everyone involved a cunt.

  7. #27
    Hymn-Slinger
    H's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2008
    Location

    The U-easy-anna
    Posts

    2,239

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I think this is more of a problem with vintage as a whole, because of their reserved list. When you can only run one copy of a card, and we accept the amazing power of restricted cards any rule that allows you to more consistently have your one-ofs is going to make your deck better. I think as far as vintage is concerned running t0 interaction is now mandatory. I don't play vintage, but I know there's mono-brown decks. Was it mandatory before?
    You mean Restricted List. But, I've been out of the Vintage loop for a bit, because I still have all my stuff, but no one around here plays.

    T0 was never mandatory, because answers don't need to be proactive to work effectively. The idea that you lose immediately to something like Dredge is vastly overblown.

    For example:
    Vintage Challenge 2/17/19
    Vintage Challenge 2/10/19
    Vintage Challenge 2/3/19

    Does T0 interaction have merit? Sure. Can you win without it? Sure.

    Is it better to have it than not? Unclear.

    However, banking on a particular Restricted cards to have your deck work is generally a bad idea over time. It might be less so with the new rule, but probably not vastly so.
    "The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
    óKaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order

  8. #28
    The green Ancestral
    ESG's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2010
    Location

    Seattle, WA
    Posts

    1,111

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by Megadeus View Post
    I think cards that can single handedly take over a game Like Blood Moon or Ensnaring Bridge really gain some percentage. I don't think it's a good change, but we'll see what happens
    Yeah, I agree with this. This change would make Turn 1 Chalice much more likely. Since the logic against Chalice decks has historically been that they aren't consistent enough to be good choices at big/long tournaments, this would be a new era. I'm not saying this would be a bad change, but it seems like an unnecessary change, and I say that as someone who plays almost exclusively Chalice decks now.

  9. #29

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Don't forget Gemstone Caverns :D

  10. #30
    Site Contributor
    apple713's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jan 2012
    Location

    Manhattan, NY
    Posts

    2,069

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    I'm an avid combo player. This is a really good change for decks that dont need the added consistency and really bad change for the format overall.

    Decks like stacks who are super powerful but super inconsistent need the balance. Giving them more power at no cost is really bad. Not saying stax i going to take over the format but its not a healthy change because it disrupts the balance...like giving delver to blue...wtf wizards, yes im still complaining.

    I know why wizards did what they did. It's because they cater to standard and modern players and those formats probably won't be able to abuse the rule as much as the eternal formats so its a non issue there, there is only upside. It does lead to more meaningful games because players can get reasonable hands consistently.

    Who knows tho, Maybe the decks that are already consistent won't really be able to benefit from this rule. No one with a decent hand wants to mulligan it away and take a chance at a worse hand.

    I dont find myself mulligaining that often. However, when I do it's usually a HUGE disadvantage. Maybe this will actually close the disadvantage gap.
    Play 4 Card Blind!

    Currently Playing
    Legacy: Dark Depths
    EDH: 5-Color Hermit Druid

    Currently Brewing: [Deck] Sadistic Sacrament / Chalice NO Eldrazi

    why cards are so expensive...hoarders

  11. #31

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagehisa View Post
    Don't forget Gemstone Caverns :D
    Bought a few already. Turn 0 interaction for modern.

  12. #32
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    6,668

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    I'm not really a fan of this. Combo, especially A+B combo like Show and Tell, might be the biggest winner from that change. But we'll see if the sky is going to fall or not.

    Between this mulligan rule and Sphinx of Foresight, how much consistency would Faerie Stompy get if that mulligan is here to stay?
    Currently working on: Infinity Stompy

  13. #33

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    I was thinking more like belcher, where you can go off on like 4 cards..

    But combo is gonna be a lot more playable, especially those t1 combos like Spanish Inquisition even


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Legacy decks: mono U painter, strawberry shortcake, imperial painter, solidarity, burn
    EDH decks: zedruu voltron, rakdos the defiler, persistent petitioners, blind seer

  14. #34

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    I wonder if there are any A+B hate piles like (Chancellor of the Spires/Archive Trap) + (Extirpate/Surgical Extraction) that make sense with the new mulligan.

    Dredge is the canonical example of a deck that breaks traditional card economy, but there's other stuff like "pitch long", or decks that use Past In Flames or Ill-Gotten Gains that will too.

  15. #35

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Winner: Tunnel Vision
    Loser: Spoils of the vault

  16. #36

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    The benefits to unplayable chunderbucket pile would be incredible !
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  17. #37
    Is Cancer

    Join Date

    Jul 2014
    Posts

    1,144

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by Poron View Post
    Itís not an impact less change.

    It helps combo a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    I echo others, this would be a terrible mulligan rule in Legacy as it massively boosts T1 combo stuff which would make the format very boring. The current mulligan rule is fine in Legacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
    We had Combo Winter.

    It is time to have Combo Summer. Welcome to the new metagame
    I just don't see it. They have a better chance of finding what they need, but midrange/delver has a better chance of finding Force, Leyline, Surgical, or w/e; and potentially multiples of it. Additionally it means less games where Fair decks mulling for hate end up with 0 lands or some such.

    If they find their Moon more often but I find my Force more often, it seems to cancel out; but we'll be more likely to find enough lands to at least play the game. I hate when I or the opponent mull to nothing because RNG god decided we shouldn't find any lands in the first 3 hands.

    I'd also point out that if this becomes the new norm; I would expect non-combo decks (and maybe combo?) to shave a land or so from basically all decklists; as you'll be more likely to get an opener with sufficient lands and mulligan to hands with sufficient lands. That's somewhat exciting really; because that means more gas/less dead draws (by a marginal percentage) for all decks. This seems all upside to me.

    Lastly, and most importantly, it adds more meaningful choice to the game. The player is making more decisions and thus you lose less to RNG.

    EDIT: I'd also mention that this probably "feels better" and if it messes with the meta-game that seems like a smaller deal (a less noticable problem) than people pointing out the same flaw the game has had for 25 years and it still feeling terrible. Much easier to keep "happy" players in the game
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  18. #38

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    I like this change. A move into the right direction imo. More t1 blood moons means less ridiculous greedy mana bases. More t1 force of wills against combo. And it's inconsequential for bazaar because that was already at an over 94% hit rate. It actually hurts bazaar incredibly hard as it's much easier to hit leyline of the void now. It also gives some added strength to leylines, gemstone caverns or that new sphinx.

  19. #39
    Member
    Barook's Avatar
    Join Date

    Mar 2007
    Location

    Germany, Germering, Munich
    Posts

    6,668

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    It also gives some added strength to leylines, gemstone caverns or that new sphinx.
    It would be funny if the change made Leyline Opalescence more viable.
    Currently working on: Infinity Stompy

  20. #40
    Member
    mistercakes's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2009
    Location

    Berlin
    Posts

    1,922

    Re: MYTHIC CHAMPIONSHIP London new mulligan rule test in Modern & Limited

    I was hoping for more Leylines deck! :)
    -rob

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)