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Thread: Modern Horizons Spoilers

  1. #21

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Tylert View Post
    T1: Therapist, Memnite
    T2: Use your cabal therapy on a stick.
    How about turn 1 Cabal Therapy.

  2. #22

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    All signs point to wotc wanting to merge eternal formats. This will be a net negative for legacy, as modern will creep into and appropriate its identity every modern horizons set they release. 200 reprints per set will only take 3 years before every non-reserved list card with tournament viability becomes modern legal. This means, we keep mostly LED, City of Traitors, Cradle, Metalworker and the original duals. We have seen the unsustainable reprint practices from the masterpieces and modern masters sets. Thismwill take it a step further and will be milked out hard

    Wotc will consolidate the fragmented player base and support modern that can be reprinted to demand and thus makes a lot more commercial sense. Given the choice, they will support a format that is not constrained by reserved list for the sole reason of wanting full control over their game.

    Legacy players will be thrown a bone to keep them content and unaware of the bigger picture, until it's too late and the identity of legacy has largely vanished.

    If you're buying Modern Horizons, you are supporting the slow demise of legacy.
    This take only makes sense if you already enjoy current modern and don't want it to change.
    As long as the reserved list exists legacy will slowly erode regardless of whatever happens to modern.
    If modern evolves to the point that the play experience isn't meaningfully different to legacy then why would I complain, because it means I can get the legacy experience I currently enjoy in a reprintable (read: cheaper, more accessible, higher player numbers) format.

  3. #23

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    This take only makes sense if you already enjoy current modern and don't want it to change.
    As long as the reserved list exists legacy will slowly erode regardless of whatever happens to modern.
    If modern evolves to the point that the play experience isn't meaningfully different to legacy then why would I complain, because it means I can get the legacy experience I currently enjoy in a reprintable (read: cheaper, more accessible, higher player numbers) format.
    Fair point. I, and many others, do think modern is in a healthy state right now and doesn't need an aggressive upheaval. That points to me that the intended audience for this set is WOTC, not modern nor legacy players.

    And yes, it could be good (better tournament coverage and more support). It could also be bad. But for me, one thing is sure, that is that they are converging legacy and modern into one eternal format. (And rumors are they will introduce a new 'super standard' format in the future starting from either core / dominaria so that it is in sync with the current sets on MTG Arena. This way, reserved list cards will no longer see competitive, sanctioned tournaments and they will have dealt with the reserved list once and for all.

  4. #24

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    This way, reserved list cards will no longer see competitive, sanctioned tournaments and they will have dealt with the reserved list once and for all.
    This is already happening / has happened regardless of new cards for modern.
    You can make the exact same argument ("WotC is focusing all their attention on modern and Legacy/Vintage are cancelled") just based on the fact that modern even exists in the first place
    I would rather modern gets attention than they upend the entire eternal format landscape again by phasing out modern and replacing it with Dom-On or whatever is its speculated successor

  5. #25

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers


  6. #26
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I foresee the following reprints as likely:
    I see most of these as very unlikely. A lot for a bunch of reasons Leo is seen as a mistake for example, so they are unlikely to repeat it. Hymn is a no because it can hit Lands and that's a new no no. Lotus Petal or Tomb is more fast mana, something they have been squashing. Most of your list is things I would bet solidly against ever seeing print in Modern. The idealogy of the format is not the same as Legacy. There are kid gloves in Modern.

    The card I would put my money on is Counterspell. Word is they tried to get it into Dom and failed. If they did that then they have likely already judged it fine for Modern (thank fuck) and this set idea may have come from talks about what to do wuth cards like that. Ones they see as fine in Modern but would hurt their precious Standard. It's why I think Daze is also a possible option. That part I think you have right. Daze is easy to play around, but offers some small amounts of free interaction that I feel Modern lacks.
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  7. #27

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    I'd be pretty chill about a new eternal format that just didn't have reserve list cards TBH as then I could sell my duals and just play that instead, plus be able to take part in more than just one major GP tournament every 5 years.

  8. #28
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    This will be modern legal, I think your list is way off. Force, Daze, Wasteland, Lotus Petal, Entomb...no way. Thisi isn't a normal masters set, this will be legal from Modern-back, so there will cards in Modern that haven't been there before.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FTW View Post
    You mean T6 shenanigans

    T1 Therapist
    T2 Explorer
    T3 sac explorer for mana

    or

    T1 Explorer
    T2 Therapist
    T3 sac explorer for mana

    Unfortunately it seems very difficult to have this sac anything even as early as turn 2, due to the timing of the trigger.
    Nevermind, I should RTFC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    This will be modern legal, I think your list is way off. Force, Daze, Wasteland, Lotus Petal, Entomb...no way. Thisi isn't a normal masters set, this will be legal from Modern-back, so there will cards in Modern that haven't been there before.
    I doubt we would get any fast mana cards as Mox Opal and SSG are already iffy.

    Hate cards like Flusterstorm, Containment Priests and the likes are probably the best candidates for reprints. We might also see stuff like the Confluence cycle.
    Currently working on: Infinity Stompy

  10. #30

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix Ignition View Post
    Oh shit, does this mean Modern is coming to MTG Arena? That'd be awesome.
    In their announcement they said the set wouldn't be coming to arena.

  11. #31
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    In their announcement they said the set wouldn't be coming to arena.
    I might be misremembering, but I thought they said it wouldn't be coming yet.
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  12. #32

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I might be misremembering, but I thought they said it wouldn't be coming yet.
    I just watched it and didn't hear an implication like that. They also said it was a paper thing, again implying no arena.


    As for the two cards spoiled, I think they're incredibly powerful and I don't want to play with/against either of them.

  13. #33
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit View Post
    I just watched it and didn't hear an implication like that. They also said it was a paper thing, again implying no arena.


    As for the two cards spoiled, I think they're incredibly powerful and I don't want to play with/against either of them.
    OK, I was watching it with the volume rather low, so I thought I heard that.

    I don't think either card, while potentially powerful, is unduly so and I also look forward to what nonsensical Blue card, that Blake was hinting at, comes with the set.
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  14. #34
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I might be misremembering, but I thought they said it wouldn't be coming yet.
    I might be misremembering, but I thought they didn't have a flying fuck what they were doing and just making it up as they went along.
    Their press releases are so vague not for our hyperactive imagination's sake, but because they don't actually know themselves.

    Even writing this I'm thinking maybe I'm being too hard on them but even the non-business game side is in shambles with stuff like Hostage Taker making it to print without somebody proofreading to see it combos with itself. Oh well
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  15. #35

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    My LGS owner reckons this might be more about Arena than anything else. WotC are apparently withdrawing their support for store events and shifting most of their focus online. He said Arena is now their dominant revenue stream which seems crazy to me that it has got there so quickly but I guess it could be true.

  16. #36
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    He said Arena is now their dominant revenue stream which seems crazy to me that it has got there so quickly but I guess it could be true.
    I don't buy this. I find it hard to believe that Arena has superseded paper sales metrics even closely. While margin is naturally higher on a digital product, I doubt if there are enough Arena sales to make up the difference.

    What I do think though, is that Arena is the growth area by a vastly wide margin. Where paper sales have likely been flat to slightly negative, Arena revenue is likely on the steady rise.

    It makes absolutely zero sense for Wizards to want to kill Paper. What you are likely right on though, is that they are shifting the focus, from a low practical growth segment to a high potential growth segment. What makes no sense though, is to kill your steady revenue stream to do it. Which, while pulling some support does hurt, Paper will continue to be the dominant form of Magic, just one less focused on promotionally.

    You can't focus on two things at once. That's not focus. The focus now is Arena, so Paper will "suffer" a bit, but that's just the nature of the beast. If you think Paper will go away though, consider, for how long have people insisted Paper books would be gone? They are still here.
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  17. #37

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    My LGS owner reckons this might be more about Arena than anything else. WotC are apparently withdrawing their support for store events and shifting most of their focus online. He said Arena is now their dominant revenue stream which seems crazy to me that it has got there so quickly but I guess it could be true.
    Your LGS owner is over-reacting to the annoucement that they're doing away with league.

  18. #38

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I don't buy this. I find it hard to believe that Arena has superseded paper sales metrics even closely. While margin is naturally higher on a digital product, I doubt if there are enough Arena sales to make up the difference.

    What I do think though, is that Arena is the growth area by a vastly wide margin. Where paper sales have likely been flat to slightly negative, Arena revenue is likely on the steady rise.

    It makes absolutely zero sense for Wizards to want to kill Paper. What you are likely right on though, is that they are shifting the focus, from a low practical growth segment to a high potential growth segment. What makes no sense though, is to kill your steady revenue stream to do it. Which, while pulling some support does hurt, Paper will continue to be the dominant form of Magic, just one less focused on promotionally.

    You can't focus on two things at once. That's not focus. The focus now is Arena, so Paper will "suffer" a bit, but that's just the nature of the beast. If you think Paper will go away though, consider, for how long have people insisted Paper books would be gone? They are still here.
    Agree with what you said, just mentioning my LGS doesn't support any constructed events because of how WOTC treats the local game stores and favors the walmarts and amazons of this world. Now there is lots of Legend of the Five Rings today.

  19. #39
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    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    I always wondered how discard on a stick (to get around Pierce, Thalia & Co.) might look like. Sadly this card isn't cutting it in Legacy as it's too slow.
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  20. #40

    Re: Modern Horizons Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by H View Post
    OK, I was watching it with the volume rather low, so I thought I heard that.

    I don't think either card, while potentially powerful, is unduly so and I also look forward to what nonsensical Blue card, that Blake was hinting at, comes with the set.
    I watched it again: It will be releasing in paper and MODO, and what he said was "[not mtg arena] on launch". And then the other annoucer said "primarily a paper product".

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